For the past few weeks I've been so conflicted with transitioning, for some reason I have been so dysphoric about my body I know I have said it a thousand times but I really wish I had a normal male body, I feel so unatural because no other men have to take T for the rest of there lives it comes naturally, I mean I barely use medicine I have prayed stuff off so don't say their are lots of people who use medicine because I don't use it that often, which then brings my religion which is christianity into question because I am not sure how God feels about it, I ain't tryin to go to hell its like there is no way I can live a normal life it still irrates the ->-bleeped-<- out of me that I can't one be fruitful with my wife thats not normal and I have seen people who have been told they couldn't have kids but by the grace of God it happend. It would be so easier to be a normal male to be adressed as how I want by my mother and others in my family to not have to pay money to buy a damn dick online, to be able to produce my own sperm to not have to pay all this damn money for surgery to have m voice deepen naturally, to grow facial hair naturally it feel so weird walking around in the body tha I have its like how can I say I am different from a girl besides my idenity well this isn't the first time I have had these thoughts... this is just a rant I am well aware that I obviously can't change anything so don't bring it up.

Yeah.. life would be so much easier if we we're just born guys. I have the same conflicts going on with religion, and having kids. And all the surgery... Dunno what to say really.

If it makes you feel any better, judging from your avatar you totally look like a guy (kinda jealous of your arms)

Quote from: darkblade on January 18, 2015, 12:45:47 PM
Yeah.. life would be so much easier if we we're just born guys. I have the same conflicts going on with religion, and having kids. And all the surgery... Dunno what to say really.

If it makes you feel any better, judging from your avatar you totally look like a guy (kinda jealous of your arms)

Yea I feel you man, it really would be easier instead of just feeling like one.

Quote from: Brandon on January 18, 2015, 12:30:44 PM
this is just a rant I am well aware that I obviously can't change anything so don't bring it up.

Hey man I don't know if this will help you or not but I just want to tell you that this isn't necessarily true:

Being fruitful with your wife- I know science is actually very close to being able to make eggs into sperm. I think you'd only be able to have XX children, but I am 99.99% sure that within our lifetimes, you will be able to have a kid with  your wife that is yours. Things aren't great right now in terms of choices but science is advancing, and quickly. Especially with same-sex couples now able to marry in most states, I imagine that this research will be pushed even more for lesbian couples, but we can benefit from this too. And man, don't forget that there are infertile guys out there. God isn't gonna be mad at them for being infertile, that's just how they are, God made them that way! Until science progresses far enough, maybe it will help you to just think that you're another guy that God, for whatever reason, made infertile.

Being on T your whole life- I will tell you man, I know this pain, and I've cried about it several times. I don't want to have to do these damn injections every single week for the rest of my life. I have bad anxiety but my insurance are jerks so I have to get injections. However, similar to above, I know research is also able to make ovaries start producing male levels of testosterone. It's been proven in mice if I remember correctly, maybe it was rats or rabbits, but it definitely was proven in some animal. I don't know when this research will start being studied on humans, but again, we are surprisingly close to this! There are a few cismen out there too who do take T injections, and will for the rest of their lives, so if it helps, you can imagine you're one of those guys who doesn't have functioning (or not functioning enough) testicles. Low-T in cismen is the reason there are so many options to take T (injections, topical, etc.) so there is definitely a portion of men in the same boat hormonally as us.

As for religion- I struggled for a long time with my religion and my identity, especially when the person I had close to me who could guide me most identified as a lesbian and ultimately decided that yes she was born that way, but God doesn't want her to have a relationship- she isn't meant to have a relationship because they're wrong. I disagreed with the conclusion she came to, I think it is okay for her to date a girl, but religion is personal, and her conclusion doesn't have to be mine. And like we all know, being non-straight is different than being non-cis, so perhaps I am not supposed to come to the same conclusion as her about myself. Ultimately, it hit me that we will probably not know until we get there whether this is right or wrong. I can't believe that God would want me to live as a female, because I know I would eventually kill myself if I did. I personally believe that it is our path to transition. But what comforted me is I know that if I am wrong, Jesus died for our sins. I would not knowingly be sinning, I think it is right to transition, so if transition was a sin, I believe that because of Jesus, I'd be forgiven. I know that God loves all of us, and because of that, there's no way he'd want us to suffer for our entire lives. God made me trans for a reason. That's how I feel, I am trans for a reason. God never made a mistake, there is some lesson I am supposed to learn because of my journey being trans, or some lesson for someone I know, or both. Perhaps it's the confidence boost I have? Perhaps it's to open up the minds of my relatives? Who knows, but God did it on purpose. And I don't think that purpose would be fulfilled without my transition.
Something else that helps me is I know somewhere in the Bible, I wish I could remember where right now, they talk about Eunuchs. Of course, that is different than being trans, but it is I think the closest thing in the bible. I can't find the verse and I am not explaining it well, but basically it sounded like the Eunuchs who stuck to their faith were definitely going to heaven, despite what others tried to tell them. If they could stick to their worship of God even with constant doubt and people telling them they were going to hell, they would be forgiven and go to heaven. I like to think that this in current days applies to trans people. Of course, as I said before, religion is personal, so you may not interpret this the same way, but I am simply sharing my thoughts.

I don't personally believe in religion, so I can't really touch that. I believe life is a gift and we need to live it and our truth to the fullest. I struggle with not being cis. I'm angry that I can't have a "normal" relationship and have biological kids. I hate that I have this female past that I'm constantly dancing around. But being angry all the time hurts. So I'm just taking this day by day and hoping that my changes come quickly. I'm scared about the future. but it is what it is. This is my life, the life I was given, and I need to do this and make myself happy the only way I know how.

If God didn't want people to transition he wouldn't have put the knowledge into people to make it possible. 

Quote from: CursedFireDean on January 18, 2015, 01:16:23 PM
There are a few cismen out there too who do take T injections, and will for the rest of their lives, so if it helps, you can imagine you're one of those guys who doesn't have functioning (or not functioning enough) testicles. Low-T in cismen is the reason there are so many options to take T (injections, topical, etc.) so there is definitely a portion of men in the same boat hormonally as us.

Yep.

Science is getting better on this each year, There is testosterone (Nebido) that is more long term , meaning you only have to take about 5 shots a year, which in my mind isn't that bad.

And some scientist are currently growing penises in labs so in a couple of years they will prob move over to testing it on humans, the mice they did it on succesfully reproduced soo

Quote from: wheat thins are delicious on January 18, 2015, 04:13:08 PM
If God didn't want people to transition he wouldn't have put the knowledge into people to make it possible. 

Yep.

Yea but thats like saying if God didn't want us to kill anyone he wouldn't let guns exist.

Quote from: Mackan on January 18, 2015, 05:22:00 PM
Science is getting better on this each year, There is testosterone (Nebido) that is more long term , meaning you only have to take about 5 shots a year, which in my mind isn't that bad.

And some scientist are currently growing penises in labs so in a couple of years they will prob move over to testing it on humans, the mice they did it on succesfully reproduced soo

The point is I am conflicted between my religion and transitioning I know science getting better but thats not the point. Point is what if God doesn't agree with it this is what makes me wish I was born normal so my gender or sex I wouldn't even half to worry about.

I'm really sorry about what you're going through. I know how much it stinks. I'm also (somewhat) of a believer and I understand if your faith can make you feel conflicted.

I feel like there are many people out there with their own interpretations about who God is and what God does/doesn't like so I feel like religion can be an open book. My own personal interpretation (this doesn't have to apply to you of course, I just wanted to share  ) is that God loves people and he created us for a reason. We are all God's children and we were created in his image.

What I said before is just how I personally see things. I too, questioned myself based on my personal faith. I hope you find resolve in your thoughts regarding your faith and transition and I wish the best for you.

Quote from: Brandon on January 18, 2015, 08:32:01 PM
Yea but thats like saying if God didn't want us to kill anyone he wouldn't let guns exist.

Yep.  I know that's flippant-- but, if you believe in an omnipotent, omniscient, omnibenevolent diety, you have to confront the problem of evil. 

I'm Wiccan, and the irony is that Wiccan theology is far more explicitly gendered and heteronormative/cisnormative than Christian theology is, though the Wiccan community is fairly accepting.  My wife is a very thoughtful Episcopalian, and I've had a lot of conversations about gender and sexuality issues with her, the priest at her church, and other folks from her religious community.  Most of the people I've talked with would say that, while God doesn't want bad things to happen, free will is important enough that He gives us the freedom to kill each other and generally mess the world up. Gives you some sense of how important self-determination really is. 

Some conservative Christians would say that being trans (or gay, for that matter) is something that people are given as a test, a temptation to sin, and what God wants is for people to fight it, every day for their whole lives.  Now, I think that's bull, and fortunately so do most of the Christians I know.  But, on one level, the principle holds.  Whoever runs the universe doesn't promise us a life free of problems.  Life is supposed to be challenging, even painful.  And however difficult our own situations are, there is always someone else whose life is undeniably worse. 

I know you said "don't say that there are folks that use medicine" but, really-- there are many things that cannot be prayed away, and many people who need medical treatment to survive.  And there are many people who've had absolutely terrible things happen to them, despite being good people with strong faith.  I've worked with folks who've lost limbs to war or accident, who've had young children murdered or die of illness, who've struggled to have biological children for years only to suffer multiple miscarriages, or even late-pregnancy stillbirths.  Lots of people have one or more problems that mean they have to take medicine every day for the rest of their lives.  Having to take T because your body doesn't make it naturally?  Type 1 diabetics have to take insulin because their body doesn't make it naturally and, without insulin, they'll be dead in days.  No amount of prayer will stop that from happening (though, admittedly, it might slow it down a bit).

I'm not trying to minimize these challenges for you-- not at all!  I've dealt with a fair bit of trouble in my life, and this is by far the most difficult and painful thing I've confronted.  But I do want to put our own struggles in context.  To draw from Buddhist teachings, the nature of life is suffering.  My own relationship with my gods tells me that faith offers us insight, connection, and a sense of meaning.  It doesn't offer us easy answers or solutions for all our problems.  But, as humans, we have the god-given ability to find solutions for many things.  It might not be possible to pray away diabetes, but that doesn't mean that God didn't give us the ability to make insulin to treat it.  Likewise testosterone, and sex-reassignment surgery.

Anyway, don't know how helpful my thoughts will be, given my different religious perspective.  But I just don't think it's as simple as "If God wanted me to be a man, He'd have made me a man." Maybe he wanted you to be a man, so he gave you the opportunity to go on T.   The fact that we live in a world that gives us tools to deal with all of this is a blessing.

Quote from: Brandon on January 18, 2015, 08:34:24 PM
Point is what if God doesn't agree with it this is what makes me wish I was born normal so my gender or sex I wouldn't even half to worry about.

My best suggestion is that you pray to Him about it and see what he says.  This might be a topic better suited for the Christianity section.  As always, you know you can send me a PM if you want to discuss things more privately.

Quote from: Bran on January 18, 2015, 09:15:25 PM
Yep.  I know that's flippant-- but, if you believe in an omnipotent, omniscient, omnibenevolent diety, you have to confront the problem of evil. 

I'm Wiccan, and the irony is that Wiccan theology is far more explicitly gendered and heteronormative/cisnormative than Christian theology is, though the Wiccan community is fairly accepting.  My wife is a very thoughtful Episcopalian, and I've had a lot of conversations about gender and sexuality issues with her, the priest at her church, and other folks from her religious community.  Most of the people I've talked with would say that, while God doesn't want bad things to happen, free will is important enough that He gives us the freedom to kill each other and generally mess the world up. Gives you some sense of how important self-determination really is. 

Some conservative Christians would say that being trans (or gay, for that matter) is something that people are given as a test, a temptation to sin, and what God wants is for people to fight it, every day for their whole lives.  Now, I think that's bull, and fortunately so do most of the Christians I know.  But, on one level, the principle holds.  Whoever runs the universe doesn't promise us a life free of problems.  Life is supposed to be challenging, even painful.  And however difficult our own situations are, there is always someone else whose life is undeniably worse. 

I know you said "don't say that there are folks that use medicine" but, really-- there are many things that cannot be prayed away, and many people who need medical treatment to survive.  And there are many people who've had absolutely terrible things happen to them, despite being good people with strong faith.  I've worked with folks who've lost limbs to war or accident, who've had young children murdered or die of illness, who've struggled to have biological children for years only to suffer multiple miscarriages, or even late-pregnancy stillbirths.  Lots of people have one or more problems that mean they have to take medicine every day for the rest of their lives.  Having to take T because your body doesn't make it naturally?  Type 1 diabetics have to take insulin because their body doesn't make it naturally and, without insulin, they'll be dead in days.  No amount of prayer will stop that from happening (though, admittedly, it might slow it down a bit).

I'm not trying to minimize these challenges for you-- not at all!  I've dealt with a fair bit of trouble in my life, and this is by far the most difficult and painful thing I've confronted.  But I do want to put our own struggles in context.  To draw from Buddhist teachings, the nature of life is suffering.  My own relationship with my gods tells me that faith offers us insight, connection, and a sense of meaning.  It doesn't offer us easy answers or solutions for all our problems.  But, as humans, we have the god-given ability to find solutions for many things.  It might not be possible to pray away diabetes, but that doesn't mean that God didn't give us the ability to make insulin to treat it.  Likewise testosterone, and sex-reassignment surgery.

Anyway, don't know how helpful my thoughts will be, given my different religious perspective.  But I just don't think it's as simple as "If God wanted me to be a man, He'd have made me a man." Maybe he wanted you to be a man, so he gave you the opportunity to go on T.   The fact that we live in a world that gives us tools to deal with all of this is a blessing.

Me personally I believe God is a healer but thats my oppinion like I said I rarely take mediicine I don't even get flu shots or anything like that and I am perfectly healthy, I am fine with being Christian heres no way I can deny him when I have seen him work.  I believein one God not many.  Its a whole different perspective I don't really agree with everything you said.

Quote from: King Malachite on January 18, 2015, 09:24:41 PM
My best suggestion is that you pray to Him about it and see what he says.  This might be a topic better suited for the Christianity section.  As always, you know you can send me a PM if you want to discuss things more privately.

Yea I guess praying to him is the only route its just how would I know if its his voice or just satan playing with me I know God speaks once but the devil was once an angel as they say. I might pm you to.

Quote from: Brandon on January 18, 2015, 09:29:11 PM
Yea I guess praying to him is the only route its just how would I know if its his voice or just satan playing with me I know God speaks once but the devil was once an angel as they say. I might pm you to.

Then you must cross check the answer you "receive" with the Bible, and if your answer doesn't line up with what the Bible says, then that is a problem.  If the Bible lines up with what you have heard, or of there is no clear scripture, then you may have a workable core for navigating your identity.

Quote from: King Malachite on January 18, 2015, 09:34:10 PM
Then you must cross check the answer you "receive" with the Bible, and if your answer doesn't line up with what the Bible says, then that is a problem.  If the Bible lines up with what you have heard, or of there is no clear scripture, then you may have a workable core for navigating your identity.

Your right.

As always, just make sure you seek Him first in everything, thought it may be hard at times.   

Quote from: Brandon on January 18, 2015, 09:25:34 PM
Me personally I believe God is a healer but thats my oppinion like I said I rarely take mediicine I don't even get flu shots or anything like that and I am perfectly healthy, I am fine with being Christian heres no way I can deny him when I have seen him work.  I believein one God not many.  Its a whole different perspective I don't really agree with everything you said.

That's OK.  Take what works and leave the rest, and if none of it works for you, then leave it all.  I would never want you to deny your faith or suggest you should have a different one; that's entirely a personal choice.  But I hope you keep an open mind about health stuff.  It's easy to be perfectly healthy when you're young.  But if you ever encounter in yourself or someone else a health problem that doesn't go away with prayer alone, I hope you're willing to accept help from a less direct source.  I don't think seeing the work of God in the works of man represents a lack of faith. 

QuoteBut I hope you keep an open mind about health stuff.  It's easy to be perfectly healthy when you're young.  But if you ever encounter in yourself or someone else a health problem that doesn't go away with prayer alone, I hope you're willing to accept help from a less direct source.

This, very much so. What if the answer to you prayer is the medicine that we have nowadays? What if God answers the prayers of trans people by providing the means (read: surgery, hrt etc) to change to the gender they truly are?

I'm no believer at all. I used to be, but I refuse to believe there is someone or something watching us while leaving the world in such a mess. That being said, I respect religion as it gives strength to people. I admire how it gives you strength too. Stay open minded and see that perhaps God wants you to change? After all, if he didn't want you to change wouldn't he be able to do something about that too? Live your life the way you want it to without living in fear you're doing it wrong.

Quote from: Mr.X on January 19, 2015, 05:43:41 AM
This, very much so. What if the answer to you prayer is the medicine that we have nowadays? What if God answers the prayers of trans people by providing the means (read: surgery, hrt etc) to change to the gender they truly are?

I'm no believer at all. I used to be, but I refuse to believe there is someone or something watching us while leaving the world in such a mess. That being said, I respect religion as it gives strength to people. I admire how it gives you strength too. Stay open minded and see that perhaps God wants you to change? After all, if he didn't want you to change wouldn't he be able to do something about that too? Live your life the way you want it to without living in fear you're doing it wrong.

My point is I shouldn't have to go through all this when he could have physically made me a man instead of just mentally it makes zero since.