Hi All,

Sorry for the long post.

So I'm closer than I've ever been but at the same time I feel like I'm hitting a wall.  So many things have been happening it's all a bit confusing.  My wife and I have been having discussions about me transitioning.  She hates the idea, actually said this would probably end our 25+ years of marriage.  She then said she can't imagine me with breasts.

With that said she has been somewhat understanding.  I've shaved my chest and other areas and she hasn't complained about it.  She knows I'm in a very bad spot right now.  She also knows I have a doctor's appointment this week, and we've discussed me asking for low dose estrogen or just finasteride.  She seems to be okay with finasteride to see if it removes some of the dysphoria and I have an enlarged prostate but she hates the ideas I may experience more erectile dysfunction and may get some breast growth.  For these reason she's really against low dose estrogen. 

We were also talking about my female traits.  She mentioned that the way I wave my hands when I talk is very feminine.  She thinks others have probably noticed.  She told me one of her former bosses commented on this.  He thought I was gay.  Geez, I'm guessing the world has probably known all along but never said anything or just dropped subtle hints that I was too dense to pick up.   If I knew the people already suspected I think I would have probably transitioned a long time ago.

This week I went to a new gender psychologist to discuss my transgender issues.  I love my regular gender therapist but I thought I would like a second opinion.  Basically I was looking for someone to tell me how to proceed or how others have approached this.  Unfortunately her opinion was very much like my therapist.  She agreed I am transgender and transitioning would definitely help my dysphoria obsession. But she agrees with my therapist that may make life difficult if I want to keep my family together especially with the fact that my wife has on numerous occasions told me she would probably want a divorce if I transitioned.  Basically it's my turn to start making a decision but I have been putting this off for 50 years.  I'm not good with this decision.

Sorry for the mind dump, just very confused at the moment.  I'll probably go on finasteride this week and see how it goes from there.  My family doctor may have some ideas.  It's just that I seem to be proceeding but I see a brick wall coming up fast.

Take care,
Paige

As a member of the 50+ year club of fighting the beast and now a 6 year member of taking on the trans beast, for real, here is my story.

My wife was far from thrilled when I dropped the T-Bomb on her 6 years ago and she knew from day 1 some 30+ years ago about my GD. I am sure you are familiar with the "I did not marry a woman" line. However after a few years of a LOT of personal growth, help from a TG support group especially a few angels sent there for me, and some therapy it was my wife who said "If you want to start HRT I'm OK with it. You are up to handling it now".

BTW-The handwaving/gesturing thing varies a lot and depends on where you live. A good example is an non-PC joke. How to stop and Italian from talking?  Tie his hands up. </rimshot> So she is reading a Lot into it I think.

I still present male. She is, at times, a bit freaked over my breasts as well as me in a bra. OK with Joanne. Sex is a bit complicated between her health issues and my lack of desire.

The engineer in me is always looking for the best way to Manage my GD, which is a moving target. For years just being able to cross-dress occasionally was enough of an escape from maleness. I have no doubt at all that I am a transsexual. I also lived part-time as female. I achieved my life long dream of being seen as and accepted as a woman. Yet I also know I am far more then a TS.

When I knew I needed to take the trans beast on for real my goal back then is the same as today's, to be one whole healthy happy person. I spent 50 years living as separate people and one very important aspect deeply buried. These days they are all fairly well integrated. Going full-time is fraught with all sorts of risks, many of which will mean a great loss of what defines me as me, what brings me happiness. Is it worth the risk? Today's answer is NO. I consider myself lucky not to have GD so painfully bad that I am a member of the Transition or Die club.... Today. Though there were times and probably will be more to come when it's close.

Wow,  brings  back  memories. 
  the  one  thing  I  want  to  add,  is  really  expolre  and  understand  the  flip  side  of  the  book. 
  My  wife  said  a  lot  of  the  same  things,  and  ultamatly  did  her  best  to  understand  and  accept.  in  the  end,  she  threw  in  the  towel.  couldn't  do  it. 
  Understanding  the  good,  and  potential  bad  outcomes  is  critical  in  counsling  and  real  life.  be  aware  of  them  all,  and  be  sure  before  you  take  the  next  step. 

Hi, Paige.  Don't worry about long vents.  We all need to do it.  I wish had some good advice for you, but I'm a step behind as I'm not out to my wife, but I'm close.  I just wanted to say, always remember, you are not alone.  Good luck and hugs.

Well I'm 36 but I face/faced many of the same issues.

My wife really doesn't accept but she says she won't oppose. She's afraid of being viewed as a lesbian. Tells me the kids won't have a father. Finds it odd that I'll have breasts and a penis (if I stay non-op, which it now seems I probably won't in the long run). Has stopped being intimate with me but will give me a hug now and then. Says she loves me but says she mourns the loss of her husband she fell in love with. She feels sorry that I go through the pain of things like electrolysis and possibly surgeries later on but wishes I didn't do them.

But on the flip side - I can't live as a man anymore. I really really really can't. It used to be that I could deal with it somewhat but now I've started down the road and there's really no going back at all. I see myself becoming more feminine literally by the day and I like it.

Transition is your decision and your decision only, but your wife should be along with you for the ride.

I think you'll find most therapists will give you the same advice, to say otherwise would be doing you no favours. The thing is that transition is pretty much guaranteed to put stress on a family and a relationship. That's not to say it has to turn out badly, for some it has been positive. The important thing is to communicate, listen, speak, be clear and transparent. All the best!

Quote from: JoanneB on January 17, 2015, 03:59:45 PM
As a member of the 50+ year club of fighting the beast and now a 6 year member of taking on the trans beast, for real, here is my story.

My wife was far from thrilled when I dropped the T-Bomb on her 6 years ago and she knew from day 1 some 30+ years ago about my GD. I am sure you are familiar with the "I did not marry a woman" line. However after a few years of a LOT of personal growth, help from a TG support group especially a few angels sent there for me, and some therapy it was my wife who said "If you want to start HRT I'm OK with it. You are up to handling it now".

Yes my wife knew from almost the beginning of our relationship 27 years ago.  Her and I always thought I could get over it.  Seems funny in a sad way now.  6 months ago she was against me even taking finasteride and shaving my chest.  She has come around maybe there's hope for a little more progress.

Quote
BTW-The handwaving/gesturing thing varies a lot and depends on where you live. A good example is an non-PC joke. How to stop and Italian from talking?  Tie his hands up. </rimshot> So she is reading a Lot into it I think.

Actually she tells me it's not just waving my hands, it's the way I flap at the wrists.  She has also commented on the way I walk on my toes, or the way I cross my legs or the way I talk when I get excited.   She thinks a good friend whose very observant has probably noticed.  I'm wondering if she has had a conversion with her about this. 

Quote
I still present male. She is, at times, a bit freaked over my breasts as well as me in a bra. OK with Joanne. Sex is a bit complicated between her health issues and my lack of desire.

The engineer in me is always looking for the best way to Manage my GD, which is a moving target. For years just being able to cross-dress occasionally was enough of an escape from maleness. I have no doubt at all that I am a transsexual. I also lived part-time as female. I achieved my life long dream of being seen as and accepted as a woman. Yet I also know I am far more then a TS.

When I knew I needed to take the trans beast on for real my goal back then is the same as today's, to be one whole healthy happy person. I spent 50 years living as separate people and one very important aspect deeply buried. These days they are all fairly well integrated. Going full-time is fraught with all sorts of risks, many of which will mean a great loss of what defines me as me, what brings me happiness. Is it worth the risk? Today's answer is NO. I consider myself lucky not to have GD so painfully bad that I am a member of the Transition or Die club.... Today. Though there were times and probably will be more to come when it's close.

When I try to think rationally about this I try to figure a happy middle ground that would work for me.  It sounds like you're much closer to that than me but your experience does give me hope I may find a way through this.

Thank you so much for the support Joanne.
Take care,
Paige

Quote from: lilredneckgirl on January 17, 2015, 04:21:06 PM
Wow,  brings  back  memories. 
  the  one  thing  I  want  to  add,  is  really  expolre  and  understand  the  flip  side  of  the  book. 
  My  wife  said  a  lot  of  the  same  things,  and  ultamatly  did  her  best  to  understand  and  accept.  in  the  end,  she  threw  in  the  towel.  couldn't  do  it. 
  Understanding  the  good,  and  potential  bad  outcomes  is  critical  in  counsling  and  real  life.  be  aware  of  them  all,  and  be  sure  before  you  take  the  next  step.

Thanks for the advise lilredneckgirl,  I think I do realize some of that and that's what kept me from making decisions.  I feel mired in muck.

Take care,
Paige:)

Quote from: ChiGirl on January 17, 2015, 07:06:35 PM
Hi, Paige.  Don't worry about long vents.  We all need to do it.  I wish had some good advice for you, but I'm a step behind as I'm not out to my wife, but I'm close.  I just wanted to say, always remember, you are not alone.  Good luck and hugs.

Thanks ChiGirl,  you're so right.  I don't know what I would do if Susan's wasn't here.

Quote from: ImagineKate on January 17, 2015, 07:09:20 PM
Well I'm 36 but I face/faced many of the same issues.

My wife really doesn't accept but she says she won't oppose. She's afraid of being viewed as a lesbian. Tells me the kids won't have a father. Finds it odd that I'll have breasts and a penis (if I stay non-op, which it now seems I probably won't in the long run). Has stopped being intimate with me but will give me a hug now and then. Says she loves me but says she mourns the loss of her husband she fell in love with. She feels sorry that I go through the pain of things like electrolysis and possibly surgeries later on but wishes I didn't do them.

But on the flip side - I can't live as a man anymore. I really really really can't. It used to be that I could deal with it somewhat but now I've started down the road and there's really no going back at all. I see myself becoming more feminine literally by the day and I like it.

Transition is your decision and your decision only, but your wife should be along with you for the ride.

Thanks Kate, yes it would be easier if we didn't care so much about our families and how it will affect them.   I hope my wife and I can find our way through this.  My wife is also worried about being viewed as a lesbian.

Quote from: Ms Grace on January 17, 2015, 07:36:18 PM
I think you'll find most therapists will give you the same advice, to say otherwise would be doing you no favours. The thing is that transition is pretty much guaranteed to put stress on a family and a relationship. That's not to say it has to turn out badly, for some it has been positive. The important thing is to communicate, listen, speak, be clear and transparent. All the best!

Thanks Grace, lately we've tried to communicate more about this.  It's hard because my wife's natural instinct is to stop talking when something annoys her.  We've talked quite a bit about her going to therapy but she says she's not up for that at this moment.


Thanks everyone for the support.  It has definitely helped.
Lots of love,
Paige

A long term relationship can seem like a complicated dance.  Who is leading, what kind of tune and where you sit when the music stops play into our lives together.  I admire those that can be so measured and feel calm enough to thoroughly weigh the pros and cons with their partners.  Perhaps because I waited and denied it all so long my floodgates opening up broke the dam.  For me it was truly damn the torpedoes, this truth will be out!  One of my initial fears was that i might try once again to purge the truth and go back to the cycle of denial and despair.  My wife knew about me all along too but that didn't make it any easier to actually face the dilemmas of losing a husband and gaining a wife.  And then she already found us less than perfect and often remarks that if we do spilt the sheets it will likely be challenges other than my being transgender that would stop the music.  I think it is important to acknowledge and be supportive of a reasonable and valid sense of loss and grieving for our partners.  That can get tricky as she grieves for the loss of some changes I am celebrating.  It can be some relatively small but meaningful changes like the loss of some cute male body hair patterns she once loved and I welcomed going away.   We see that too in our support groups when transitioners and significant others are in the same setting.  The moms, spouses and others lamenting the departure of someone they thought they knew only to deal with some sort of bubbly teenager going through a happy second puberty as an adult.
Fear of loss ruled my dance for too long and I came to the conclusion that I could not control or really know what the triggers and outcomes would be.  Isn't it readily apparent that we all face loss from so many angles already that it is no wonder divorce is so very common?  Modern options for choice and unrealistic expectations of happily ever after are a formula for drama.  For many it is enough that we continue to ask for the next dance with someone we love.  So far I am delighted to still hear the fat lady singing.  Gotta love those sexy curves;-)

Hi Paige,

I am 52 and going through transition for 2 years. I am going slow, my perspective and going fast my wife's perspective. I started with finasteride but that did very little if anything for dysphoria. HRT full dose has made living possible and even with that sometimes it is still  very rough. Therapy, group, HRT and some expression has helped as well as laser and electrolysis.

Transition can be a long process with a lot of ups and downs. It  has been difficult on my wife and daughter (17). There has been a lot of emotion expressed on a lot of occasions. I think remaining calm and talking helps but there is a lot of pain. I think for them going from what was comfortable to something that is uncomfortable is very difficult. There has been a lot of digs and occasional breakdowns with emotional volatility which has been very difficult. Sometimes there is good dialogue and from that I am hopeful for the future.

I too need to make decisions. Transition is 1000 decisions, some small and some large.

Quote from: Tessa James on January 18, 2015, 11:38:46 AM
A long term relationship can seem like a complicated dance.  Who is leading, what kind of tune and where you sit when the music stops play into our lives together.  I admire those that can be so measured and feel calm enough to thoroughly weigh the pros and cons with their partners.

Hi Tessa James,  my wife and I are trying to be calm about this, but I feel like I'm drowning most of the times and she always is a few words away from tears.  It has been better lately as we are trying to understand each other better.

Quote
Perhaps because I waited and denied it all so long my floodgates opening up broke the dam.  For me it was truly damn the torpedoes, this truth will be out!  One of my initial fears was that i might try once again to purge the truth and go back to the cycle of denial and despair.

That is what I'm really worried about, slipping back into a state of denial and letting this eat away at me for the rest of my life.

Quote
My wife knew about me all along too but that didn't make it any easier to actually face the dilemmas of losing a husband and gaining a wife.  And then she already found us less than perfect and often remarks that if we do spilt the sheets it will likely be challenges other than my being transgender that would stop the music.  I think it is important to acknowledge and be supportive of a reasonable and valid sense of loss and grieving for our partners.  That can get tricky as she grieves for the loss of some changes I am celebrating.  It can be some relatively small but meaningful changes like the loss of some cute male body hair patterns she once loved and I welcomed going away.   We see that too in our support groups when transitioners and significant others are in the same setting.  The moms, spouses and others lamenting the departure of someone they thought they knew only to deal with some sort of bubbly teenager going through a happy second puberty as an adult.
Fear of loss ruled my dance for too long and I came to the conclusion that I could not control or really know what the triggers and outcomes would be.  Isn't it readily apparent that we all face loss from so many angles already that it is no wonder divorce is so very common?  Modern options for choice and unrealistic expectations of happily ever after are a formula for drama.  For many it is enough that we continue to ask for the next dance with someone we love.  So far I am delighted to still hear the fat lady singing.

You're right, "Fear of loss" has definitely defined me.  I think you have to take chances in life even if you fail.  I'm slowly learning this.  You never know it could turn out much better than I thought it would.  I've been told I'm a bit of a pessimist.

Quote
  Gotta love those sexy curves;-)

I completely agree and desire them badly.
Paige

Quote from: Cynthia Michelle on January 18, 2015, 12:47:00 PM
Hi Paige,

I am 52 and going through transition for 2 years. I am going slow, my perspective and going fast my wife's perspective. I started with finasteride but that did very little if anything for dysphoria. HRT full dose has made living possible and even with that sometimes it is still  very rough. Therapy, group, HRT and some expression has helped as well as laser and electrolysis.

Transition can be a long process with a lot of ups and downs. It  has been difficult on my wife and daughter (17). There has been a lot of emotion expressed on a lot of occasions. I think remaining calm and talking helps but there is a lot of pain. I think for them going from what was comfortable to something that is uncomfortable is very difficult. There has been a lot of digs and occasional breakdowns with emotional volatility which has been very difficult. Sometimes there is good dialogue and from that I am hopeful for the future.

I too need to make decisions. Transition is 1000 decisions, some small and some large.

Hi Cynthia, 

I suspect you're right about the finasteride and dysphoria. Other comments here on Susan's seem to back up what you said.  I'll be talking to my GP on Thursday about what he thinks I should take.  I would prefer low dose E but I've told my wife I'm leaning towards finasteride for now.  Still thinking about how this should go.

Thanks for telling me about your experience,
Paige

 

Quote from: Paige on January 18, 2015, 02:23:08 PM
That is what I'm really worried about, slipping back into a state of denial and letting this eat away at me for the rest of my life.

During my first few years of trying to turn my life around for the better, I've had quite a few "WTF am I Doing? meltdowns. They may last only hours, sometimes weeks, even months for the worse one. The one thing that kept me going was my constant affirmation of:

I Know What Does Not Work

I had spent 50 years playing the game one way and finally saw I was loosing more spectacularly then I've ever did in a Monopoly game at age 6 against my brother over 6 years older then I. I was trying something different. I'm feeling better. I am happier. This is Working.

But Shame and Guilt can come raining down on you like that Monty Python 15 Ton weight right out of nowhere, or with the most minor trigger.

My biggest fear about "Reverting" came almost 2 years ago when out of the blue my old boss called and offered me a dream job. One where I can once again be a for real engineer, problem solver, and hero. It also brought with it a whole new set of transition(?) related problems starting with one I was able to half ignore. THe job offer also meant an end to the long distance marriage. I get to move back to the "Village" in NJ, back with my wife. Also an end to a very much part-time existence where I was living in a far friendlier and accepting rural WV. (Not wife caused, rather closed minded bigoted NJ, 3 miles from NYC suburbs related. AKA personal safety. Reverse culture shock)

Back in that old environment, back to almost the same old life-style that marked the start of the decline of my marriage as I shut down more and more burying my feelings and myself into my work Around all the old crew, dealing with the old stresses I feared just as any addict would being back on the streets. My wife and worked out the major details, such as the above, before I accepted the offer. The first few months were at times difficult. At times I did fall victim yet again to bouts of "WTF am I doing? after months of none. Fortunately, this time not only myself but my reality therapist was nearby with the 2x4 of reason up the side of the head reminding me of all the positive things that have happening and how proud of me she is seeing me put in all the hard work it takes to change your life.

I believe that before we are born into this world we agree to the challenges we will face. We will also not be allowed to take them on if we were not "Ready". This same philosophy I also apply as to when we confront these challenges. It took me over 50 years of life and 2 prior experiments with unexpected outcomes before I reached a place in my life that I was ready to take the Trans-Beast head on, rather than dancing around it. It took several more years before before I grew enough to take on the challenges of moving back to NJ and dealing with the multitude of issues here.

Keep the faith that you too are prepared

Quote from: JoanneB on January 18, 2015, 07:18:50 PM
During my first few years of trying to turn my life around for the better, I've had quite a few "WTF am I Doing? meltdowns. They may last only hours, sometimes weeks, even months for the worse one. The one thing that kept me going was my constant affirmation of:

I Know What Does Not Work

I had spent 50 years playing the game one way and finally saw I was loosing more spectacularly then I've ever did in a Monopoly game at age 6 against my brother over 6 years older then I. I was trying something different. I'm feeling better. I am happier. This is Working.

But Shame and Guilt can come raining down on you like that Monty Python 15 Ton weight right out of nowhere, or with the most minor trigger.

My biggest fear about "Reverting" came almost 2 years ago when out of the blue my old boss called and offered me a dream job. One where I can once again be a for real engineer, problem solver, and hero. It also brought with it a whole new set of transition(?) related problems starting with one I was able to half ignore. THe job offer also meant an end to the long distance marriage. I get to move back to the "Village" in NJ, back with my wife. Also an end to a very much part-time existence where I was living in a far friendlier and accepting rural WV. (Not wife caused, rather closed minded bigoted NJ, 3 miles from NYC suburbs related. AKA personal safety. Reverse culture shock)

Back in that old environment, back to almost the same old life-style that marked the start of the decline of my marriage as I shut down more and more burying my feelings and myself into my work Around all the old crew, dealing with the old stresses I feared just as any addict would being back on the streets. My wife and worked out the major details, such as the above, before I accepted the offer. The first few months were at times difficult. At times I did fall victim yet again to bouts of "WTF am I doing? after months of none. Fortunately, this time not only myself but my reality therapist was nearby with the 2x4 of reason up the side of the head reminding me of all the positive things that have happening and how proud of me she is seeing me put in all the hard work it takes to change your life.

I believe that before we are born into this world we agree to the challenges we will face. We will also not be allowed to take them on if we were not "Ready". This same philosophy I also apply as to when we confront these challenges. It took me over 50 years of life and 2 prior experiments with unexpected outcomes before I reached a place in my life that I was ready to take the Trans-Beast head on, rather than dancing around it. It took several more years before before I grew enough to take on the challenges of moving back to NJ and dealing with the multitude of issues here.

Keep the faith that you too are prepared

Hi Joanne,

I really like that idea about being born agreeing to the challenges you will face in life and being capable of facing them.  Did you think of this or did you get it from somewhere?

I guess falling back haunts us so much because we did it so often when we were younger.  Right now I've decided to take it slow but always try to find a way forward wherever that leads.  Somehow I'm going to find myself in this process.

I'll try to keep the faith, thanks again for the help.
Paige

Paige, I'm not sure if this helps or not. In one of my early sessions with my therapist I asked if there was someway to make be be a man. Life would be so much easier.

He looked at me almost sadly and said, 'I can change your body to match your brain, but I can't change your brain to match your body'

That, sadly, is what we carry as trans*people.

My apologies if that is unhelpful

Quote from: Cindy on January 19, 2015, 01:02:28 AM
Paige, I'm not sure if this helps or not. In one of my early sessions with my therapist I asked if there was someway to make be be a man. Life would be so much easier.

He looked at me almost sadly and said, 'I can change your body to match your brain, but I can't change your brain to match your body'

That, sadly, is what we carry as trans*people.

My apologies if that is unhelpful

I would have to agree with that, but what do you do if faced between definitely losing your marriage, relationship with kids and grandkids, in short, everything that you've known for > 35 years, and being yourself?

The problem that I have is, what if I'm not entirely happy being a woman?  Look at what I've throw away. 

And yet, "experimenting" isn't possible. In my position, with a disapproving spouse who doesn't even have a clue how far that I've gone to try to see what's best, it's really impossible to know. 

Quote from: ElizMarie on January 19, 2015, 01:48:17 AM

Quote from: Cindy on January 19, 2015, 01:02:28 AM
Paige, I'm not sure if this helps or not. In one of my early sessions with my therapist I asked if there was someway to make be be a man. Life would be so much easier.

He looked at me almost sadly and said, 'I can change your body to match your brain, but I can't change your brain to match your body'

That, sadly, is what we carry as trans*people.

My apologies if that is unhelpful

I would have to agree with that, but what do you do if faced between definitely losing your marriage, relationship with kids and grandkids, in short, everything that you've known for > 35 years, and being yourself?

The problem that I have is, what if I'm not entirely happy being a woman?  Look at what I've throw away. 

And yet, "experimenting" isn't possible. In my position, with a disapproving spouse who doesn't even have a clue how far that I've gone to try to see what's best, it's really impossible to know.

I have no answer, only tears. I decided I had to be me or I was very quickly drinking myself to death, the family would lose me anyhow.

I was selfish, I chose life.

For me that was the right call, but this journey takes no prisoners, we have to walk our own path.

Quote from: Cindy on January 19, 2015, 01:52:59 AM
I have no answer, only tears. I decided I had to be me or I was very quickly drinking myself to death, the family would lose me anyhow.

I was selfish, I chose life.

I thought that I was being very selfish for committing to my transition until my wife told me that I might have been even more selfish by keeping us both in the dark for so long and pretending that everything was OK while almost drinking myself to death and worrying her needlessly because I didn't tell her what the real problem was.   Apparently she wants me here for the long haul.

Selfish and proudly guilty as charged.

Jill and Cindy, thank you so much.  That's exactly what I needed to hear.