Anti-LGBT forces strike back with religious freedom bills

http://www.washingtonblade.com/2015/01/27/anti-lgbt-forces-strike-back-religious-freedom-bills/

January 27, 2015 | by Chris Johnson

Amid a series of court rulings in favor of marriage equality, anti-LGBT forces are responding in state legislatures with bills that would allow discrimination to continue against same-sex couples.

The introduction of these bills — which range from allowing businesses to refuse services to same-sex couples to cutting off funds for the purposes of granting marriage licenses — comes as many conservative states are facing the reality of marriage equality delivered through court order and as the U.S. Supreme Court is set to deliver a nationwide ruling on the issue later this year.

Many of these bills, named Religious Freedom Restoration Acts, have the stated purpose of prohibiting the government from burdening an individual's exercise of religion except to achieve a compelling interest, and only if that burden is the least restrictive means of reaching that interest.

But the wording in such legislation is seen as a thinly veiled attempt to enable discrimination by allowing businesses, such as florists and bakeries in the wedding business, to refuse services to same-sex couples, or by allowing court clerks to refuse to issue them marriage licenses.

It's exactly what Ruth Bader Ginsburg said would happen in the wake of Hobby Lobby. 

Could you imagine legally being refused food, water or gasoline because some bigot suspected you were LGBT?  This is what some people want.

Quote from: Jill F on January 29, 2015, 03:20:53 PM
It's exactly what Ruth Bader Ginsburg said would happen in the wake of Hobby Lobby. 

Could you imagine legally being refused food, water or gasoline because some bigot suspected you were LGBT?  This is what some people want.

The difference I see here is that those things aren't religious acts. A marriage is for many religions. As much as I hate discrimination I don't think it is right for the government to force me to take pictures of a satanic wedding between two satanists for example. I'm using an extreme example but this is exactly what I see being forced on people

This may seem far fetched but this could backfire with non-Christians refusing service to Christians. This could open the door to the persecution Christians have been expecting for years  to begin.

Using Kate's example in reverse, some Satanist or Pagan photographers could refuse to take pictures of a Christian wedding. Getting on a slippery slope here.

Quote from: Jill F on January 29, 2015, 03:20:53 PM
It's exactly what Ruth Bader Ginsburg said would happen in the wake of Hobby Lobby. 

Could you imagine legally being refused food, water or gasoline because some bigot suspected you were LGBT?  This is what some people want.

Well, then you look at them and say: "Adios, ya idiot." Then you go somewhere else where you can get what you need. Unless you are stuck in a village with a population of 200 people. The chances of this negatively impacting you are slim. The only thing it will do is have certain business people shooting themselves in the foot.

another service that isn't talked about but should be is that orphanages will be able to say "I don't want the child to be brought up in the sinful environment that is the lgbtq home." I know Michigan had 3 rfra type bills in the lame duck session that never got voted on. 1 was more broad but the other two were for orphanages and foster homes. That's actually the most f'ed up imo. As if there isn't enough orphans with out homes already.

They plan trying again with a more red(iculous) house and senate. also im gonna get some hate for that last part but my only reply to any republican is that at least im not putting sexist homophobes and transphobes in power.

I also think we are to focused on cakes and bathrooms. Why does the decision of us having basic civil rights come down to cake and bathrooms?

Quote from: amber roskamp on January 29, 2015, 04:58:57 PM
They plan trying again with a more red(iculous) house and senate. also im gonna get some hate for that last part but my only reply to any republican is that at least im not putting sexist homophobes and transphobes in power.

How quickly you forget that it was none other than Bill Clinton that signed DOMA, and Democrats voted for it almost 2:1 in the US Senate. Clinton was also publicly against same-sex marriage. He changed his stance later on when his wife was running for President.

Heck, even Obama was anti same-sex marriage even though he supported a repeal of DOMA. At least Joe Biden was honest and stuck to his guns and that's what gave Obama the push. I give him credit for that.

And Barney Frank basically told us to drop dead with ENDA, gutting protection for trans and publicly lashing out against trans advocates.

Democrats are only our friends when it is politically expedient to THEM. Otherwise, they're all too quick to use us then chuck us like a piece of garbage.

Don't fall into the trap of partisanship is all I'm saying.

Quote from: Laura Squirrel on January 29, 2015, 04:43:06 PM
Well, then you look at them and say: "Adios, ya idiot." Then you go somewhere else where you can get what you need. Unless you are stuck in a village with a population of 200 people. The chances of this negatively impacting you are slim. The only thing it will do is have certain business people shooting themselves in the foot.

Yep. The court of public opinion is greatly underestimated by most.

Try to repeal the civil rights act today and see what happens. Won't even happen in the deep South. Maybe one or two states but most people are afraid to touch it. Sure, there are a few loud idiots that like to say and do racist things but most people understand that all races should be treated equally.

If a photographer refuses to take photos of gay weddings it is likely that they'll be publicly shamed and lose business in many places.

Or they may not, and that's fine. There are plenty of people who will willingly do services for you.

If I'm having someone supply service to me I want them to feel like they're doing it willingly and not being forced to. They're more apt to do a good job and even put some love into it.

Quote from: ImagineKate on January 30, 2015, 09:59:45 AM
Yep. The court of public opinion is greatly underestimated by most.

Try to repeal the civil rights act today and see what happens. Won't even happen in the deep South. Maybe one or two states but most people are afraid to touch it. Sure, there are a few loud idiots that like to say and do racist things but most people understand that all races should be treated equally.

If a photographer refuses to take photos of gay weddings it is likely that they'll be publicly shamed and lose business in many places.

Or they may not, and that's fine. There are plenty of people who will willingly do services for you.

If I'm having someone supply service to me I want them to feel like they're doing it willingly and not being forced to. They're more apt to do a good job and even put some love into it.

Wait. Let me get this straight. If I go to your town and convince all the restaurants not to seat you and all the stores not to sell to you, you'd be happy going elsewhere? You don't want a law against that?

True if you were popular and had a lot of friends, those businesses might lose business.

But if you weren't. If everyone in town already thought you were a freak, do you really think they would be willing to go out of their way to support you? Are you comfortable with a law where popular people had a way to avoid discrimination, whereas unpopular people did not?

Quote from: suzifrommd on January 30, 2015, 10:19:52 AM
Wait. Let me get this straight. If I go to your town and convince all the restaurants not to seat you and all the stores not to sell to you, you'd be happy going elsewhere? You don't want a law against that?

There wouldn't be a need to have a law for that today, is all I'm saying. These places would be boycotted and shamed.

QuoteTrue if you were popular and had a lot of friends, those businesses might lose business.

But if you weren't. If everyone in town already thought you were a freak, do you really think they would be willing to go out of their way to support you? Are you comfortable with a law where popular people had a way to avoid discrimination, whereas unpopular people did not?

I believe the free market takes care of the problem. Some basic protections are needed but the market does most of the heavy lifting.

Quote from: ImagineKate on January 30, 2015, 09:52:23 AM
How quickly you forget that it was none other than Bill Clinton that signed DOMA, and Democrats voted for it almost 2:1 in the US Senate. Clinton was also publicly against same-sex marriage. He changed his stance later on when his wife was running for President.

Heck, even Obama was anti same-sex marriage even though he supported a repeal of DOMA. At least Joe Biden was honest and stuck to his guns and that's what gave Obama the push. I give him credit for that.

And Barney Frank basically told us to drop dead with ENDA, gutting protection for trans and publicly lashing out against trans advocates.

Democrats are only our friends when it is politically expedient to THEM. Otherwise, they're all too quick to use us then chuck us like a piece of garbage.

Don't fall into the trap of partisanship is all I'm saying.

Accept republicans are the ones who opened the flood gates on the rfra (originally clintons bill) with the hobby lobby decision. And the dems are the only ones who even attempt to combat the the super power that is religious right who believe America should be a theocracy.  And that the down fall of America is atheism and homosexuality. And that global warming isn't real because it disagrees with the book of Revelations

 

Lets not turn this into a religion/politics argument people

Lets now return to our regularly scheduled article discussion 

Well, I'm a libertarian first and foremost.

Both parties have had transgressions on civil rights.

Don't want to turn this too political so I will leave it there.

 

2nd warning people lets bring this topic back to article discussion and not political or religious arguments

Thread locked for some Spring cleaning and review.