Yup, makes no sense whatsoever. Just like babies dying in their cribs makes no sense, or people losing their legs, or the millions of starving children on our planet. Exactly the reason why I dont believe in a deity anymore. There is, and cant be any sense to this, because if there would be, it would be pure evil governing this.

But yes, it makes no sense. Alas, it making sense or not is not going to change it. You can dwell on it, wallow in misery, curse one or more deities, or dance around at midnight naked trying to feel better....It doesn't matter. what does matter is that it is within reach for you to change the thing that doesn't make sense. You can change it into making sense. How awesome is that? Grab that chance, better yourself and become a good man.

Quote from: Mr.X on January 19, 2015, 09:39:29 AM
Yup, makes no sense whatsoever. Just like babies dying in their cribs makes no sense, or people losing their legs, or the millions of starving children on our planet. Exactly the reason why I dont believe in a deity anymore. There is, and cant be any sense to this, because if there would be, it would be pure evil governing this.

But yes, it makes no sense. Alas, it making sense or not is not going to change it. You can dwell on it, wallow in misery, curse one or more deities, or dance around at midnight naked trying to feel better....It doesn't matter. what does matter is that it is within reach for you to change the thing that doesn't make sense. You can change it into making sense. How awesome is that? Grab that chance, better yourself and become a good man.

Well personally I don't believe thats a good reason to not believe in God, thats mans doing, do to sin. I'm just gonna talk to God about it.

Quote from: Brandon on January 19, 2015, 10:16:08 AM

Well personally I don't believe thats a good reason to not believe in God, thats mans doing, do to sin. I'm just gonna talk to God about it.

He realizes, hence why he said that's the reason HE doesn't believe in a deity anymore, not that you shouldn't. 

Quote from: Brandon on January 19, 2015, 09:07:10 AM


My point is I shouldn't have to go through all this when he could have physically made me a man instead of just mentally it makes zero since.

Maybe he did it for a reason, he wanted you to go through this hardship for whatever reason.  Dwelling on it does no good, though I understand the need to have a rant about the hardships that we face as trans people. 

Quote from: wheat thins are delicious on January 19, 2015, 05:25:05 PM
He realizes, hence why he said that's the reason HE doesn't believe in a deity anymore, not that you shouldn't. 

I didn't say he was referring to me I just told him that God isn't the cause for this no good world the devil has taken over man.

Maybe he did it for a reason, he wanted you to go through this hardship for whatever reason.  Dwelling on it does no good, though I understand the need to have a rant about the hardships that we face as trans people.

Ok Idk about you but where Imma spend eternity is important, God is on his way quick and in a hurry, hell is real and I damn sure ain't trying to burn and be tourtured for eternity maybe you want that others but not me so of course its stressful you don't understand because your probaly not that close to God. So no ones dwelling on anything.

If you believe that God is all knowing and all powerful, that he doesn't make mistakes, and that he does everything for a reason, then why think that your transsexuality is anything other than a trial that God wanted you to go through? 

Quote from: wheat thins are delicious on January 20, 2015, 07:42:47 PM
If you believe that God is all knowing and all powerful, that he doesn't make mistakes, and that he does everything for a reason, then why think that your transsexuality is anything other than a trial that God wanted you to go through?

Well for one idk how God feels about it, I never said that it wasn't trial that he may have put me through all I am sayng is I wouldn't be conflicted if I was born correctly I wouldn't have even had to ask this question I could just focus on getting to glory but because idk how God feels about it idk weather or not its a sin so then it makes me fear were I am going to spend eternity.

Quote from: Brandon on January 20, 2015, 07:58:28 PM
Well for one idk how God feels about it, I never said that it wasn't trial that he may have put me through all I am sayng is I wouldn't be conflicted if I was born correctly I wouldn't have even had to ask this question I could just focus on getting to glory but because idk how God feels about it idk weather or not its a sin so then it makes me fear were I am going to spend eternity.

Where you spend eternity isn't dependent on whether you transition or not.  If that was the case, then you would be working your way to heaven, and salvation is not of works, lest any man should boast (Ephesians 2 8-9).   You get to heaven by placing *all* of your faith on Jesus Christ, not putting your faith in Jesus Christ AND repenting of sins (or in this case *not* transitioning).

Quote from: King Malachite on January 20, 2015, 08:56:01 PM
Where you spend eternity isn't dependent on whether you transition or not. 

Very good point.

Quote from: King Malachite on January 20, 2015, 08:56:01 PM
Where you spend eternity isn't dependent on whether you transition or not.  If that was the case, then you would be working your way to heaven, and salvation is not of works, lest any man should boast (Ephesians 2 8-9).   You get to heaven by placing *all* of your faith on Jesus Christ, not putting your faith in Jesus Christ AND repenting of sins (or in this case *not* transitioning).

If its a sin then it's and just putting your faith into Jesus Christ is not the only thing you need to get to heaven, you can't be a fornicator, adulterer, killer, lier or any other abominations and sins talking abiout because I believe in Jesus Christ it automatically means I am going to heaven that ain't how it works.

Quote from: Brandon on January 21, 2015, 03:10:51 PM
If its a sin then it's and just putting your faith into Jesus Christ is not the only thing you need to get to heaven, you can't be a fornicator, adulterer, killer, lier or any other abominations and sins talking abiout because I believe in Jesus Christ it automatically means I am going to heaven that ain't how it works.

You have to realize that people sin, even you will sin at some point, and likely have in the past, no one is perfect.  Even the most faithful fall to sin at times.  It's the realizing you have sinned and asking forgiveness part that is important. 

My suggestion is to find religious scholars who are also trans, ideally ones who have transitioned, and ask for their guidance.  Allow them to help guide you on the right path. 

When it comes to your faith, what does your heart tell you? Bigots use only the convenient parts of the bible to support their hatred. I am going to use the catholic church in this example (the new pope is making positive changes but the old guard still stands), when you have men of the cloth molesting children and the Vatican moves to protect the molesters and punish those who would come forward. Do you really believe that people like that speak for God when they call us an abomination.

Be happy and try to make the world a better place then I don't think you would have any thing to worry about. "God doesn't make mistakes"  bah they're right God made us transgender, there was no mistake.

As for physical and medical issues, medical miracles are happening every day. Who knows what miracles are going to come out of 2015 alone. The future has yet to be written, worry about doing what you can to get happy and the future may very well surprise you.

Quote from: White Rabbit on January 21, 2015, 04:39:24 PM
When it comes to your faith, what does your heart tell you? Bigots use only the convenient parts of the bible to support their hatred. I am going to use the catholic church in this example (the new pope is making positive changes but the old guard still stands), when you have men of the cloth molesting children and the Vatican moves to protect the molesters and punish those who would come forward. Do you really believe that people like that speak for God when they call us an abomination.

Be happy and try to make the world a better place then I don't think you would have any thing to worry about. "God doesn't make mistakes"  bah they're right God made us transgender, there was no mistake.

As for physical and medical issues, medical miracles are happening every day. Who knows what miracles are going to come out of 2015 alone. The future has yet to be written, worry about doing what you can to get happy and the future may very well surprise you.

Well I don't consider it hatred there are some things I believe in the bible that would offend some here, the bible is the word. But yea going to heaven is important to me.

Quote from: Brandon on January 21, 2015, 03:10:51 PM
If its a sin then it's and just putting your faith into Jesus Christ is not the only thing you need to get to heaven, you can't be a fornicator, adulterer, killer, lier or any other abominations and sins talking about because I believe in Jesus Christ it automatically means I am going to heaven that ain't how it works.

Read 1 Corinthians chapter 5, and you will find that there were those who were called "brothers" (a.k.a brother in Christ) that were fornicators, covetous, idolators, railers, drunkards, or an extortioners.  There was one fornicator who would have sex with his father's wife, and it was eventually say that he was to be given up to Satan for the destruction of his flesh, that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.

Speaking of Corinthians, lets take a look at 1 Corinthians 6:9-11, where it references some of what you were talking about.

1 Corinthians 6:9-11King James Version (KJV)

9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,

10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.

11 And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.


It is true that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God.  There is no doubt about that, and some people were doing these things, but as verse 11 says, they were washed, sanctified, and justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.....NOT "in the name of our Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God, AND repenting of sins, AND keeping the commandments, AND not transitioning, going to church, etc."  Romans 4:5 will also back me up on this.

Romans 4:5 (KJV)

5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

These people were made righteous by their faith, and THAT is why they were washed, sanctified, and justified. 


You say "that ain't how it works" in reference to how believing in Jesus won't automatically send someone to heaven, but I have tons of scriptures that prove otherwise.  Here are some of those scriptures below that talks about just believing on Jesus Christ is the key to salvation.  Not only that, I have posted scriptures that condemn "working" your way to heaven.




John 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name

John 3:15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.

John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

John 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of
the only begotten Son of God.

John 3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

1 John 4:15 Whosoever shall confess that Jesus is the Son of God, God dwelleth in him, and he in God.

1 John 5:5 Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?

1 John 5:10 He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son.

1 John 5:13 These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.

John 5:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

John 6:40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that everyone which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

John 6:47 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life.

John 8:24 I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.

John 10:28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.

John 11:25-26 Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live.  And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die.

John 20:30-31
30 And many other signs truly did Jesus in the presence of his disciples, which are not written in this book:
31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.

Romans 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to everyone that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

Romans 3:22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:

Romans 3:24-25 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: 25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God.

Romans 3:26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.

Romans 3:28 - Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.

Romans 3:30 Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith.

Romans 4:3  For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.

Romans 4:4-7 4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.
5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
6 Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,
7 Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered.

Romans 4:24  But for us also, to whom it shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead;

Romans 5:1-2 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ: 2 By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.

Romans 10:4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.

Romans 10: 9-10 9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

Romans 10:13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

Romans 11:6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.

Phillipians 3:9 And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:

Galatians 2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

Galatians 3:6 Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.

Galatians 3:8 And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.

Galatians 3:22 But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.

Galatians 3:24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.

Galatians 3:26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.

Galatians 5:4 - Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.

Titus 3:5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

Acts 2:21 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved.

Acts 10:43  To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.

Acts 16:30-31 30 And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved? 31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.

1 Peter 1:5 Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time

1 Peter 1:9 Receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls.

2 Timothy 3:15 And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.

1 Corinthians 3:15 - If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

Ephesians 1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

Ephesians 2:8-9 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast.

Luke 7:50  And he said to the woman, Thy faith hath saved thee; go in peace.




Not only that, but the Bible posts a strong warning to to those who would try to "work" their way into heaven.

Matthew 7:21-23 (KJV):

21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.



And what is the will of the Father?  The answer is found in John 6:40.

John 6:40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that everyone which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.



My friend, if you go to Hell, it is because you trusted in Jesus AND your works, and not Jesus alone.  I'm not even saying this to say that it would be perfectly okay for you to transition.  Again, it goes back to that one-on-one talk you need to have with God.  It might just be that transitioning may not be the path for you, but then again, it may.  That is between you and God.



Wheat thins also had a good idea with looking up religious scholars who have went through this.  I suggest researching some transgender pastors who have gone through this.  Malcolm Himschoot and David Weekly comes to mind.  This may be triggering, but I would even suggest looking up some stories of those who "claim" to be "ex-transgender, and "delivered", and read about there stories to help dissect your views.  I can even help put you in touch with one transguy I know on Youtube that is a devoted Christian, if you want me to.



I just urge you to just take a step back and think about these things....





                                                                                                               

I talked to God so I am a waiting on an answer but I don't think getting into heaven works like that no offence.

Quote from: wheat thins are delicious on January 21, 2015, 03:39:13 PM
You have to realize that people sin, even you will sin at some point, and likely have in the past, no one is perfect.  Even the most faithful fall to sin at times.  It's the realizing you have sinned and asking forgiveness part that is important. 

My suggestion is to find religious scholars who are also trans, ideally ones who have transitioned, and ask for their guidance.  Allow them to help guide you on the right path.

Obviously I realiz we all sin and fall short of his glory I get that 100% the only guidance I need as God because very few trans Christisans have the same views I do if they did it would make a difference,  but  I won't say them because I don't wanna offend anyone.

Quote from: White Rabbit on January 21, 2015, 04:39:24 PM
When it comes to your faith, what does your heart tell you? Bigots use only the convenient parts of the bible to support their hatred. I am going to use the catholic church in this example (the new pope is making positive changes but the old guard still stands), when you have men of the cloth molesting children and the Vatican moves to protect the molesters and punish those who would come forward. Do you really believe that people like that speak for God when they call us an abomination.

Be happy and try to make the world a better place then I don't think you would have any thing to worry about. "God doesn't make mistakes"  bah they're right God made us transgender, there was no mistake.

As for physical and medical issues, medical miracles are happening every day. Who knows what miracles are going to come out of 2015 alone. The future has yet to be written, worry about doing what you can to get happy and the future may very well surprise you.

I believe the bible is the truth but unfourunately your gonna have hypocrites.

Quote from: Brandon on January 28, 2015, 03:14:49 PM
I talked to God so I am a waiting on an answer but I don't think getting into heaven works like that no offence.

No offense taken.  The Bible tells us to prove all things (1 Thessalonians 5:21), so if you don't think that's how you get into heaven (despite the numerous scriptures I have posted), then you must be able to back up your position before God with the scriptures He has given us and make sure to rightly divide the Word of Truth (2 Timothy 2:15).

Quote from: King Malachite on January 29, 2015, 08:22:07 PM
No offense taken.  The Bible tells us to prove all things (1 Thessalonians 5:21), so if you don't think that's how you get into heaven (despite the numerous scriptures I have posted), then you must be able to back up your position before God with the scriptures He has given us and make sure to rightly divide the Word of Truth (2 Timothy 2:15).

Know I am not trying to start an arguement but you can't just say oh I believe in God so I can sin all I want and I will still have a seat in heaven, you still have to repent and abide by his word if not you are gonna be damned for eternity.  That also means not accepting worldly things which I am seeing in the Christianity section but because I don't wanna offend anyone or be banned we can save it for a debate topic some other time. Many believers are going to hell themselves because they don't follow his word. Man you might be older than me but that doesn't mean I don't know what I am talking about.

Quote from: Brandon on January 29, 2015, 08:38:57 PM
Know I am not trying to start an arguement but you can't just say oh I believe in God so I can sin all I want and I will still have a seat in heaven, you still have to repent and abide by his word if not you are gonna be damned for eternity.  That also means not accepting worldly things which I am seeing in the Christianity section but because I don't wanna offend anyone or be banned we can save it for a debate topic some other time. Many believers are going to hell themselves because they don't follow his word. Man you might be older than me but that doesn't mean I don't know what I am talking about.

No one said you didn't know what you were talking about.  On the contrary, I find you to be a bright young man who is wise beyond his years when it comes to certain spiritual topics (The King James Bible and God ordained gender roles are just a couple that come to mind).

I used to believe like you did when it came to salvation.  I would be in so much fear that when I die, I'd go straight to Hell because I didn't "repent" of all of my sins enough.  It truly is a horrible way to live in my opinion: wondering if will do enough for God to in order to get to heaven.  I am so glad that I let go of that thinking.  I do not believe that any saved person will actually say "oh I'm going to sin all I want now".  For one, the Holy Spirit convicts them of their sin, and two, God will discipline his children for being disobedient.

Quote from: King Malachite on January 29, 2015, 08:56:12 PM
No one said you didn't know what you were talking about.  On the contrary, I find you to be a bright young man who is wise beyond his years when it comes to certain spiritual topics (The King James Bible and God ordained gender roles are just a couple that come to mind).

I used to believe like you did when it came to salvation.  I would be in so much fear that when I die, I'd go straight to Hell because I didn't "repent" of all of my sins enough.  It truly is a horrible way to live in my opinion: wondering if will do enough for God to in order to get to heaven.  I am so glad that I let go of that thinking.  I do not believe that any saved person will actually say "oh I'm going to sin all I want now".  For one, the Holy Spirit convicts them of their sin, and two, God will discipline his children for being disobedient.

I understand its not good to live and think like this Its just hard and its stressing me out to the point where I can't focus in school or anything else, I believe its the devil messing with me but I'd wish he'd quit nagging me, I am about ready to pull my hair out and scream to be real. By the way you'd be suprised how people think I know some people who think premartial sex is fine but. but don't condone homosexuality, but two wrongs will never make it right we all sin and fall short of his glory not one of us are exempt from hell wheather you believe or not. Its about repening and growing closer to God.