Hello,

ive a bit strange question: I follow since long time different forums, facebook-groups, a.s.o. ...
In my eyes transwomen from US in most cases have clearly better results from HRT than the germans. I dont understand it. Where are the reason? A lot of US-transgender looks very feminine, get a feminine face, hair and body. In germany most transgirls older than 30 will never pass in their life. I know very much girls having really masculine traits in their face. Most of us got no breasts ... maybe a AAA or a AA. Maybe 10% gets an A. The only transgirls in germany that will really pass are around 16-20 years. I met 2 other girls around 30-40 this weekend and we all havent a little sign of a new fat distribution after 2 years of hormones, nobody of us. Why?

Why the "your HRT" is working better the our german HRT? 
Ive no answer for it!

Hugs Galaxy

Hi Galaxy,

I am 25% German.

I go to a Primary Care that has 8 PA-C's  and Nurse Practitioners and two Medical Doctors as well as support staff and Nurses. The vast majority (almost all) of the patients are trans. They own the Pharmacy next door and provide meds at cost. The  have several locations and have HIV testing places, food banks, clothing, legal, therapist and Psychologists and group. They also sponsor the largest trans health care conference in the world. So, there is a lot of resources available. Also, surgery can help issues that meds can not.

Hi Galaxy,

What sort of HRT do you get in Germany?

What is a typical program like (minus dosage of course)?

Uhm... not sure if there's any real basis to that. Anyway, I've read a study done in Europe that showed about 60% of transsexuals here don't disclose their transsexuality to their employers. Could be because the majority of them ends up blending in (passing)...

*mod edit for content

I started at very late forties bordering fifties, that's about 40 years on from the onset of puberty... It's also been stated to me and have read many pieces of info on the subject... The results of HRT progressively take longer once puberty has been passed by year...
I have been on HRT for over 10 years, higher doses since last 6 years... But I still have a long way to go... 34B'ish Bra size....

So as for Germany / Europe, maybe it's the dosage that may have been notionally agreed upon by medical practitioners over there, or maybe it's also food and lifestyle... There may be many reasons..

I must admit I have not realised the initial thread opening statement, so unable to comment on actual visual impact... Interesting all the same though 

L Katy

Does HRT in Germany include progesterone?  Can you use a wide range of delivery methods for estradiol?   It would be interesting as well to know what the German medial guidelines are for what range hormone levels should be.  I actually know a couple of women who are German are have gone through transition (in North America), and the results have been very good on HRT.  I am 1/2 half German and I have been happy as well.

Hopefully that isn't gibberish, just poorly written.  [emoji6]

Ich bin 50% Deutsch.  Haben sie FFS im Deutschland?  Ich glaube dass die Deutschen können so erfolgreich wie jemand sein.  Sie wären überrascht, wie viel HRT(Östrogen, Anti-Androgen und Progesteron) einen Körper formen.
Ugh, ich habe vergessen, wie man zu viele Wörten auf Deutsch sagen.

It's possible that the standard prescribed HRT medications differ from those in other countries.  However, as long as you take an estrogen with an anti-androgen, it will be effective over time.  It won't make you magically super pretty, but it is remarkably effective at feminizing your appearance.

     Hugs,
- Katie

I odn't know about Germany, but I know that in Uk they use a different anti androgen that doesn't work as good as spiro, or at least that's what a girl from there told me, so yeah... Also I think y'all don't use progesterone.... However many girls here don't use progesterone as well... I don't use it for example.

The most german transwoman takes progesteron (still since years here). Personally i take progesterone for 2 years, but it has no effect to me - what should it do???

In germany the most get estradiol-gel for medication, a few get pills. Injections are only available through other countries - its difficult to get it, the most doctors dont offer this methode. I think 80-90% use gel in low dosages. I tried it over the years and nearly nobody use high dosages. Most doctors want a "save medication". I guess most of them dont focus a good feminization but a save medication.

For myself i take weekly injections now (it was hard work to get it from my doctor), progesteron daily, a bit CPA(androcur) and finasteride for my hair. Should there be any changes? Its the same like pills or gel to me. Maybe our german genes are so bad - and marked masculine for the whole life. In germany the age of 30 means - better dont do it, if you focus good results and a body feminization. It had a breast augmentation 3 month ago - it had 7cm (around 3 inch) of breast after 2 years ...

I talk much to other (also older) transwomen here and for the most HRT is only a thing from the doctor - something written on paper. They take 3-4 years estradiol and dont pass - everybody can see their "trans" ... people like me - over 30 and have a acceptable face-passing are very rare. Bodypassing (breast, fat distribution, ...) has nearly no transwoman, including me.

Hey there,

I'm German and the trans group I go to easily consists of 90% women. Many of them started hrt later in life, but I'd say a lot of them pass and have clearly feminized. That's a very isolated observation, of course.

But my impression is also that at least in my group FFS is a lot less common.

How is the name of the group ... ? I checked around 4-5 forums and 4-5 facebook groups.
I'm most of the time at facebook groups and there only a few women really (really) pass. FFS is refused in mostly cases.
I only know one forum are focused on good results, also with FFS.

P.S. And of course, males have always another opinion. 

Quote from: Mermaid on February 08, 2015, 07:11:13 PM


Hands down the most passable transsexuals are in Thailand though, if it looks to be good to be true, then you know it wasn't born a girl =P

I've heard this many, many times before...not only from MTF tourists but also from cis male and female tourists.
And not only having seen thai MTF in bars, clubs, 'resorts' etc, but also in daily life in the streets, working as shopassistants etc.

So, whenever I hear this 'they look so feminine, you  just can't tell they're MTF' I always reply with: 'If that's so, you would have seen ciswomen, most certainly not MTF.....'

I've been to thailand for an extended period a couple of times, and I could always tell who's MTF and who's not...not only from their looks but most of them behave completely different from thai ciswomen. I didn't need to hear their (gruff) voices, I already knew beforehand.

As for the USA: I've been to CA and NYC a couple of times for extended periods too. Same story. I (and others) read MTF almost instantly because of their overall bodysizes, the way they move OR their waaaaaaaaaaayyyy overdone 'FFS' faces.
I have to admit I took some ciswomen for MTF because of their surgically overdone faces too btw.

Grass is always greener on the other side, for sure, but I wonder if you've seen pics and vids of American MTF WITHOUT or WITH other cispeople?

A pic of a MTF posing next to a ciswoman makes it instantly clear who's who because of the sizes of their heads, shoulders, trunk etc.

For some reason USA MTF are besotted with having cheekimplants, which is also a dead give away. It not only makes one's face too big but also harsh.
Or it makes facial features look like  thrown off balance.
All the above draws unwanted attention etc.just like over augmented lips and breasts.


And ehm, I guess you've heard about photoshop?


And last, but not least: the FFS faces can look great on pics, but seeing some FFS faces animated on video's makes you almost instantly wonder about their wooden faces, having trouble speaking, restricted smiles, having trouble with regular facial expressions etc.

Better stick to yourself and don't let pics and vids lead you on ;-)

P.s: taking hormones has a slight feminising effect, but it all depends on how the persoon looks from the beginning. Very masculine looking? Don't expect too much from using estrogen.

Quote from: galaxy on February 09, 2015, 08:01:00 AM
P.S. And of course, males have always another opinion.  [emoji14]

Uhm, lol. Maybe.

The group is called Gendertreff. They are active in North-Rhine Westphalia.

Quote from: Dahlia on February 09, 2015, 10:46:21 AM
I've heard this many, many times before...not only from MTF tourists but also from cis male and female tourists.
And not only having seen thai MTF in bars, clubs, 'resorts' etc, but also in daily life in the streets, working as shopassistants etc.

So, whenever I hear this 'they look so feminine, you  just can't tell they're MTF' I always reply with: 'If that's so, you would have seen ciswomen, most certainly not MTF.....'

I've been to thailand for an extended period a couple of times, and I could always tell who's MTF and who's not...not only from their looks but most of them behave completely different from thai ciswomen. I didn't need to hear their (gruff) voices, I already knew beforehand.

As for the USA: I've been to CA and NYC a couple of times for extended periods too. Same story. I (and others) read MTF almost instantly because of their overall bodysizes, the way they move OR their waaaaaaaaaaayyyy overdone 'FFS' faces.
I have to admit I took some ciswomen for MTF because of their surgically overdone faces too btw.

Grass is always greener on the other side, for sure, but I wonder if you've seen pics and vids of American MTF WITHOUT or WITH other cispeople?

A pic of a MTF posing next to a ciswoman makes it instantly clear who's who because of the sizes of their heads, shoulders, trunk etc.

For some reason USA MTF are besotted with having cheekimplants, which is also a dead give away. It not only makes one's face too big but also harsh.
Or it makes facial features look like  thrown off balance.
All the above draws unwanted attention etc.just like over augmented lips and breasts.


And ehm, I guess you've heard about photoshop?


And last, but not least: the FFS faces can look great on pics, but seeing some FFS faces animated on video's makes you almost instantly wonder about their wooden faces, having trouble speaking, restricted smiles, having trouble with regular facial expressions etc.

Better stick to yourself and don't let pics and vids lead you on ;-)

P.s: taking hormones has a slight feminising effect, but it all depends on how the persoon looks from the beginning. Very masculine looking? Don't expect too much from using estrogen.

I would soooo much love to see your photo. After FFS, more than before. Am I too wishful ?

Quote from: Dahlia on February 09, 2015, 10:46:21 AM
P.s: taking hormones has a slight feminising effect, but it all depends on how the persoon looks from the beginning. Very masculine looking? Don't expect too much from using estrogen.

Taking hormones CAN have effects - but these are all options. Doctors, other transgender or info-sites want to make us believe that taking hormones WILL have effects. Thats absolutely wrong. It all CAN only. I know people taking hormones since 5 years and have no effects.

Quote from: galaxy on February 09, 2015, 02:35:17 PM
Taking hormones CAN have effects - but these are all options. Doctors, other transgender or info-sites want to make us believe that taking hormones WILL have effects. Thats absolutely wrong. It all CAN only. I know people taking hormones since 5 years and have no effects.

That's not actually possible, from a medical perspective. I don't claim to have had great results from hormones, but I can't claim I've had none.

Quote from: kelly_aus on February 09, 2015, 03:37:33 PM
That's not actually possible, from a medical perspective. I don't claim to have had great results from hormones, but I can't claim I've had none.

I thought so too always. In my case the only region where the hormones have effects is the face. Not so much, but a bit - i can see it. All other regions didnt changed over the last 2 years. I know a lot people have similar experience. They got an B-cup and have no other effects - the face looks like before - the whole opposite of mine. I also know people hat absoluty no benefit from taking hormones. Before man - after 2 years man. So HRT is only a option - no "tool" on the way.

And for sure: Testosteron will work. Estrogens could work.

Quote from: mmmmm on February 09, 2015, 01:58:35 PM
I would soooo much love to see your photo. After FFS, more than before. Am I too wishful ?

Yes, because I never post pics online for reasons you can guess...

Hi, Galaxy!

This is just an assumption of mine, based on what I've read on here and other TG forums, for more than five years now as an active participant, since I started HRT. BTW I don't live in either the US or Germany at the moment, but I used to live in the US years ago. I am a Caucasian myself.

My assumption is this:

The US' most successful (confident and passable that is) MTF women are the ones that usually populate forums like these regularly, with comments, answers to questions, etc. The other women don't post so frequently. But they exist as well. You just don't hear about them as much.

Now, this is my personal view, again, based on having read these forums for years an years, thus learning a lot:

MANY of the US trans women with great physical results, who started after their puberty was over, are so successful because they were born intersex. If you are not familiar with this term, please just go to Wikipedia.org and type intersex, or do a Google search with any of these phrases "intersex individuals" "intersex people" or anything similar.

Every single time I read about somebody mentioning a great breast size for a trans woman, such as anything above a B cup without being overweight or having breast implants, or somebody having a natural soft-looking face and a great hip to shoulder ratio, smaller bone structure including hands and feet, actually having  small breasts already etc. BEFORE EVEN STARTING HRT, it invariably leads to this particular person being an intersex individual of any variation, but most of these women don't mention their condition on every post they make, until maybe a friend of theirs mentions it in another response "hey girl, you should mention that you were born intersex, so others may know why you've had such great results from your HRT".

As I've said before, this is just an educated assumption. I am pretty sure I wasn't born intersex myself, so I am struggling in the "passing" department, even after 5 1/2 years on HRT, incuding orchi and t-shave the 15th month after I started HRT. But I was also a bodybuilder my whole puberty, because of harassment and bullying issues in school and gender confusion. Big mistake, guilty as charged, but I was so ignorant and lacking information at the time, and my family and social environment were an extremely conservative and closed-minded religion-driven burden for me, with a 100% macho-oriented mentality, so I had to conform or perish, at the time.

Now, why are there so many intersex individuals in the US going for transitioning as females? Simply because there's loads of information available in the US in this day and age, tons of resources, institutions both governmental and private, to support any people pursuing their dream of gender identity correction and a happier existence in the correct gender. So people who are intersex, with gender dysphoria issues, learn that, second to those individuals starting HRT at the onset of puberty, they are actually the best possible candidates for transition, passability-wise.

Just my opinion on this. I hope this could give you some insight. Still, through extensive HRT emphasizing estradiol, one can have great results even if not being born intersex. In my particular case, I look very different from how I did before starting HRT. My skin, overall, is soft and nice-looking and I don't do any special thing for it other than a mild exfoliation when I shower. I've lost like 90% of my overall body hair except armpits, pubic area and a bit on the knees and scattered everywhere else. I look way less T-shaped in my body frame, closing in to an hourglass shape, but of course my hips are nowhere as nice-looking as those of a well-developed cis woman. I don't have big breasts, but they have a nice shape even though I have a very big rib cage as a result of my past bodybuilding, which messed up my upper body for good. My facial muscles have softened noticeably. So there's lots of nice stuff coming from HRT even if one wasn't lucky to be born intersex, but one has to be optimistic and patient, HRT results go on for our entire lives, I've read of people who still see positive feminization changes even after 20+ years on HRT!!!

I hope all this was a bit insightful and thanks for reading it!

Cheers

Bibi B.

Why do Americans have better results?

I have a theory.

It is because we don't live in Germany. I look better from Germany than I do close up. You see, I get to choose the pictures you see of me. I am not a three dimensional figure you met at the store. I am represented by an avatar.