Do I have to completely let go my male personna which my therapist has insisted that I must as the next step for me? I am an older transitioner and I know its ment to be more difficult for us. I have been living in both worlds recently, having been on HRT for almost 2 years,  and with my voice and behavorial lessons, I find that my female side is becomming more dominant, but I still have a male side which I have now controlled and only emerges when I'm in a suit and tie. I need to maintain this because the Banking and Finance world is male dominated, but my therapist insists that I need to abondon him completely, as he feels its holding my female personna captive. He does not believe that I can effectivly go from one to the other. I cannot go full time until my father passes away (93 years old and has been ill for 12 years) so any advice/opinions would be really helpful. His insistance is greatly upsetting.

I can see why he'd say that, but this is a world where headstrong female personas do exist - from the tomboy to the sharp-tongued female businesswoman, there are plenty of cisgender women with remarkably male personalities.

Your "male persona" and "female persona" are just parts of "you".  Can you just be the "you" that feels the most natural that makes you the happiest overall?

I was so much happier when I just did whatever came naturally and didn't feel "forced".

Sorry, it's a "scare quote" kinda day.  This is what I get from reading the Zagat guide...

I see you are from Asia, generally women there are culturally seen as very demure and submissive. Doesn't mean they must be - your therapist sounds like a chauvinist who is talking out of their backside. But then I don't know what the transition requirements in your country are - in many you have to live as a woman before they consider advancing the process. There is no reason why parts of your male persona cannot merge with your female self.

I think it's unfortunate that we seem to have developed such a dichotomy between "binary" and "non-binary," just when society as a whole (at least the sensible part) was coming to understand that everyone is a mixture of masculine and feminine personality traits, some more to one end of the spectrum, some more to the other, regardless of how people identify.

Jill is right -- it's all you. It's also worth remembering that everyone also adopts different roles in different situations, and that has nothing to do with one's actual gender identity, whatever that may be. I have a flannel-shirt-and-old-pickup-truck, sort of loutish persona, an intellectual-gentleman-at-the-symphony persona, and a cooking-and-decorating-homebody persona -- just to name a few. They're all me, and I like them all. (Well... most of them. )

Hi Grace, I'm a Eurasian with a Chinese mother and an English father. We have been here for 4 generations, we don't fall into the submissive female clan, thats more the Japanese. My clan have all the matriachs that control the family and fortunes, I was the only patriach mmmm.... I have been faithfully following this therapist for 3 1/2 years and he has been great so far, we have overcome many road bumps but now I begining to consider that he might be a male chauvinist with his view on this topic. He asserts that he has seen us develop for 30 years and the only way to avoid mental issues is to abandon the male personna. I had seen other therapists before relying on him and was thinking its time to visit another therapist

I am slightly confused, Does your therapist mean let go of male traits in your personality or stop living only part time as a woman? There is a difference between being a strong woman who has male characteristics and a person who lives part of their live in a different gender to the one they identify as.

From an acceptance and development perspective I can use the argument for saying be full time but I also understand waiting until your father isn't around to be hurt or confused by your actions. If your ultimate goal is to be accepted as female then you will at some point have to be full time, Also if you want to go as far as SRS then you'll need to be full time.

I think I would clarify the meaning of your therapists words, If they are saying that waiting a while isn't good then they are not very forgiving and lack empathy and I'd go and find myself a new therapist but if s/he is urging you to be full time then just tell them you understand and are working on it.

Hope that helps

Hugs

Sorcha 

I agree with Jill and Tysilio and just consider the male personna as part of what makes me who I am. I have changed so much mentally, like all of us, but I still like some of me old personna, its flambouyancy, its gregariousness, its vanity.....

Hi Sorcha, he want me to go full time. He does not believe in switching back and forth and is adamantly against this. I live as  a female in Bangkok and a male in my home city.

Quote from: warlockmaker on February 09, 2015, 10:04:40 PM

Hi Sorcha, he want me to go full time. He does not believe in switching back and forth and is adamantly against this. I live as  a female in Bangkok and a male in my home city.

Hi Warlockmaker Then I believe he is an outdated dinosaur who shouldn't be pushing his opinions onto your transition. He is there to help you understand your feelings and help you progress. He shouldn't be pushing you into something you're not ready for. my feeling is that you need a more understanding therapist. You have a good reason to delay things and I hope one day you can be free to make your choices

Hugs

Sorcha 

I'm not quite 40 yet.  A therapist that would force me todo anything I don't want to would be unemployed!  If you can carry both personas, then what's wrong with it.  At some point they may merge, but you are doing this transition to put your mind and body at peace.  Right now it sounds like it would make your life miserable for no reason but to please your therapist? 
Financial stability should be a factor in the transition.   Some may disagree, but if you fully transition too soon then struggle the rest of your life, will you ever be truely happy.   I hear and see soooo many tgs that transition too soon and are miserable.  There are those that are miserable if they don't transition immediately and can be happy in poverty levels..  Which are you?  Not all of us can just decide to transition and it all falls in line, so we choose our demons.  I may be wrong, but it's my body, my choice!  I always fought for women's rights before this with the same slogan, so we deserve the same;) 

Hi Cynobyte. I fortunately do not have any financial issues in the slightest. I would never go back to being a male (it would kill me) and there is mental pressures to come out in my city and hell with the consequences....its an internal struggle to respect and honor my father life. I have never mentioned my city but it is Hong Kong and Tg are fully recognized but difficult for the traditional family to accept.

I think your in a unique situation and it's important for you to maintain the family business. It's up to you totally how you want to transition and given the importance of your family situation intertwined with the business and culture and the age of your father which obviously your therapist has no understanding of, I\'d say maybe it's time to explore a different therapist , possibly a female one if at all possible.

Hi,

Im not sure about male personer though if you view me for who i am it wont matter very much

im an intersexed female and yes i get into some strife with some trans people for what ever reason , ill note that later ,

im one strong woman and needed to be to get where i am now so with that in mind you ll understand where im coming from concerning my self i did not let other tell me what i should do or how they wonted me to be . i told them and that included one Psych of 3/4 of of an hour  i told him  what i was doing and going to do  so he never asked me any ?s as was not needed  and he said im signed off and to go live my life as i should ,

our Endo was more than happy with how i was going about things and allso signed me off , at 3 months ,as he  did not need to see me any longer than i needed ,

i had meds when ...i... needed them and had corrective surgerys when ...i ...needed them i was never told  other than what they knew what i was doing  meds surgerys all with in about 4 years of when i needed this ,

yes im a little different and yes surgerys a little different as well other than that i live life as a normal female ,

now where its different , is because im both male / female and that shows in my facial   features so yes some would think im a male ,   as they get to know me they find i really am a female , and with that i do many things males do and im not ? nd on that as i have told every one of my difference so im accepted for who i am ,

As it is im a trained builder 46 years plus other trades and worked in male sectors , just years ago i could not say i was different ,so i was percived as male and there was no point in saying different though some knew any way .

Yes i can get stropy on the job yes i can take on males and do many things they can  remember i was trained to do that  so yes if your a strong woman both mentaly and body wise , why does one have to become what they are not, 

im not changing for any one and never did im 67 , of cause as i said i get into strife with some trans people  because i dont line up as they think  i should , im not this soft wimp of a female as some think we should be . with in our womens sector some are  far stronger than i  what im saying is just be who you are dont be dictated to ,

if you were able to meet me youd see a woman who can stand on her own feet and is a hard worker , yet , im a feminine female so does both work together ,  in my case yes very much so  and my friends will tell you that is true ,

as a female i have grown into a strong woman who has a male side that helped this female to be who she is ,
Be  your self be who you are and dont be other than that , grow yes and have a life that you can be pleased with ,

i may  come over as a hard woman maybe and when the need arises yes , yet ,im  very caring of others and work hard out for them .

...noeleena...

Stephaniec is right, a female therapist may be better.  You said it yourself, "his insistence is greatly upsetting" 
Is it the therapist who does't understand "no", or are you not saying "no"?  If you are ready to shed your male persona, is you father stopping you?  What if he survives 10 more years and you choose to wait?  Will you be miserable,  what if you died while waiting for your father, did you gain anything?  To me I don't have to answer these questions,  but maybe they should help you.  What a therapist should be asking.  I'm a few days off 40, I will not see 50 due to disease.   I expect you are close due to age.  I don't want to disrespect you saying you are old, so please don't think it that way;)  I'd love to have a family member older than me.  But after all these years, don't you think the clues were there for your family?  Shouldn't  they respect your wishes too?  And if they dont, doesn't your happiness mean more?  I can show someone all the respect in the world, but now it's the "about me" point in my life!  I have everything setup for my family and still do much for them.  It's their choice to jump ship, and I do welcome them back in after they cooled down..
It's tricky with your father, but your life is sooo short too!  I would want nothing but happiness for my son.  putting yourself in your father's shoes it should be the same. 
Talking it out here, I guess I'm saying "expect no less than what you would expect of your own son if you have one"?
We are all human, fragile, and not perfect.  It's you that has to live with your choice.  I hope the signs have always been there and your father has been waiting for you to come out and to be happy?

***these are just my ramblings!  Take them as you will!  I wish you all the best!  These are what your therapist should help you with.  Please only do what is in your heart.  It may lead us astray, but it is your turn to be happy too;)******

Why transition to MTF when you have a male 'personna' anyway?

Quote from: Dahlia on February 10, 2015, 06:34:31 AM
Why transition to MTF when you have a male 'personna' anyway?

I am getting impression that the key word in OP's question was "completely" not "male persona".

I'm not as far along as you but have discussed this with my (female and very open) therapist and GP (post-op).  Both have voiced this sentiment not as a matter of gatekeeping in my view but experience.  Perhaps your therapist is also preparing or suggesting you've arrived at the day when it becomes a mental struggle to contain yourself within the male persona as the final victory over the struggle to completely hide it from others.  others I've talked to who were more "transitioned" than I mention it becomes very mentally taxing to not allow yourself to be fully one gender or the other. Could it be this? 

On the other hand, a lot of these responses have indicated that a mix is the modern default and we should expect to be a mix just as many CIS females esp but sometimes males, are a mix. 

I'm kind of in the same boat as you, work wise but I've been just moving along at my own pace and found that the environment is more tolerant and unnoticing than I would have expected.  There's a line to be crossed for sure, but I'm not sure where it is (though I'm sure I'll find out). Close, mannerisms, etc don't seem to cross it so long as some moderation is applied to both, eyebrows same deal.  I'm guessing that so long as heavy makeup, dresses, and super long styled hair aren't involved and changes are made gradually, that there won't be much of a problem until far beyond the mix that i'm still comfortable with. 

My point is that you know your work and co-workers and family the best; you are on a journey to discover yourself and should follow that wherever you are happiest- whether it's at one end of a binary spectrum or anywhere in the middle.  The point of HRT and transition is to be HAPPY; so whatever makes you happy is where you need to be.

You can do as you please. You could take a little from your male side and some from your female side and make something which fits you. For me, I try to portray myself as female as possible but use my male side to help me understand how other males think and act. One advantage is it allows me to, "See into the dark hearts of man" . It's like a defensive weapon to prevent harm both physical and mental to myself and those I care about.

To me, your therapist sounds pretty suspect in this regard. You don't "need" to let go of any aspect of yourself that you do not want to let go of. If you want to spent Mondays, Wednesdays, and Fridays presenting male and the other days female, there's nothing wrong with that at all.

However, it seems possible that he's not trying to tell you what to do so much as help you try to get to where you want to get. It's possible that he is under the impression that you want to do a full binary transition. I can imagine that people sometimes benefit from a little pressure to move out of their comfort zone so that they can let go and settle into an ultimately happier situation. If that is not you, then if I were in your place I'd make that as clear as possible and if I continued to feel pressure, I'd find a new therapist. It's one thing to be supported through a difficult process, it's another to be talked into one.