(I hope this was an appropriate section for my question)

So I have a question, and I have to admit it is coming from a place of fear and confusion and doubt as I approach the start of my therapy and possible path to making some changes to feel more at peace. My question is, is it a legitimate option that therapists and medical professionals will accept if I were to want to go on HRT but continue living outwardly as a man? I know I would change in certain ways but even with those changes I know I would live life far more smoothly as a man rather than try and come out of the closet and live full time as a woman despite never being able to pass. I wonder if the changes that I can embrace in private but hide in public, along with the peace that I hear many people experience when on HRT, would be enough to keep those feelings (dysphoria I suppose?) at bay?

So is it an option to try and walk the line between birth gender and desired gender in order to deal with the negative feelings but also not have to live life being viewed as "a man in a dress"? Sorry if anyone is offended by that, but it is a very very strong insecurity of mine, strong enough that I honestly feel at this point like I would never be able to bring myself to come out of the closet and really live as a woman.

I am wondering if this is an option I can keep in mind to bring up during therapy. Has anyone ever heard of someone doing this?

I have heard of people doing it. One had to lie to  the therapist. Others were OK with it.  Either way, you do what you need to.

That's what I did until I was able to move to a place that was more trans-friendly. The therapist is human; she understood that not everyone can be out and proud from day 1. She waived  my Real Life Experience as well. The standards of care they follow has changed in the past few years to allow for this, so you should be fine. HRT can be very therapeutic to some even if they never transition. Believe it or not now, you will start to look different, though, so people might start to wonder, but you can take steps for a long time to mitigate that. Heck, I'm out as can be around where I live these days, but just returned from a 10 day trip to Russia to visit a friend...where as you might know LGBT folks are heavily targeted by both authorities and skinheads. I bought some men's clothes and a chest binder and butched it right up (weird experience but doable). Long story short, it's possible. But you might well get to a point in a few months or a year or two on HRT that you want to take the next steps. Your pace should be your own, and a good therapist will help with that. Good luck!

There are 2 thoughts wandering through my mind, more questions actually..

What happens if/when the hormones make it impossible to actually pass as a guy? 

And what about if/when you change your mind?

Quote from: LordKAT on February 24, 2015, 12:59:10 AM
I have heard of people doing it. One had to lie to  the therapist. Others were OK with it.  Either way, you do what you need to.

Can you explain what lie was neccessary? Did the person tell their therapist that he or she was living full time when they actually weren't?

Quote from: GendrKweer on February 24, 2015, 01:07:51 AM
That's what I did until I was able to move to a place that was more trans-friendly. The therapist is human; she understood that not everyone can be out and proud from day 1. She waived  my Real Life Experience as well. The standards of care they follow has changed in the past few years to allow for this, so you should be fine. HRT can be very therapeutic to some even if they never transition. Believe it or not now, you will start to look different, though, so people might start to wonder, but you can take steps for a long time to mitigate that. Heck, I'm out as can be around where I live these days, but just returned from a 10 day trip to Russia to visit a friend...where as you might know LGBT folks are heavily targeted by both authorities and skinheads. I bought some men's clothes and a chest binder and butched it right up (weird experience but doable). Long story short, it's possible. But you might well get to a point in a few months or a year or two on HRT that you want to take the next steps. Your pace should be your own, and a good therapist will help with that. Good luck!

Yes I suppose setting the right pace is important, even if it is a glacier-esque one. And if I decide to live that way indefinitely I'd like to think it would be an option. But realizing that I have options makes the prospect of doing something a little less intimidating since it's not actually like jumping into the deep end of the pool.

I actually have an aunt who is a transwoman who came out and seemed to almost immediately start living full time and persue a name change and ask people to use correct pronouns. I don't know how she is as brave as she is doing all that, she even has gone back to University at age 56 mid-transition. If I ever come out of the closet I am going to tell her how inspiring and brave she is.

Do you want to stay living as a man because you think you'll never pass? Is that why you only want HRT and nothing else? Because let me tell you that many of us who first started out think we're never gonna pass but slowly as we progress there always comes a point when you do. Just think about that. But to answer your question, I do believe that's an option. It would just being about finding that open-minded therapist and endocrinologist or doing it the black market way (DIY) which I don't recommend.

Quote from: kelly_aus on February 24, 2015, 01:15:40 AM
There are 2 thoughts wandering through my mind, more questions actually..

What happens if/when the hormones make it impossible to actually pass as a guy? 

And what about if/when you change your mind?

Good questions, as for the first one I doubt hormones could change me enough to ever have someone assume I am a woman while presenting as a man. I am very manly in body, face, and voice. I know I would be taking some big steps towards androgeny but for some reason I find that a lot easier to handle.

As for the second question, do you mean change my mind and stop HRT? I have heard of people doing this and "de-transitioning" so I believe it is an option but if I ever decide to go on HRT it will be after careful consideration with the help of a therapist to make sure there is as little a chance of that happening as possible. If yoh keant change my mind as in want to come out of the closet and live full time then that could be done down the road if I wish.

The lie was that they wanted to do a full transition instead of just hormones, in order to get the hormones.

Quote from: Amy85 on February 24, 2015, 01:26:49 AM
Good questions, as for the first one I doubt hormones could change me enough to ever have someone assume I am a woman while presenting as a man. I am very manly in body, face, and voice. I know I would be taking some big steps towards androgeny but for some reason I find that a lot easier to handle.

I thought the same thing. About 18 months on hormones and even dressed in a very masculine fashion, I couldn't pass as a guy. The thing is, you just don't know until you take the plunge..

Quote from: JenJen2011 on February 24, 2015, 01:22:42 AM
Do you want to stay living as a man because you think you'll never pass? Is that why you only want HRT and nothing else? Because let me tell you that many of us who first started out think we're never gonna pass but slowly as we progress there always comes a point when you do. Just think about that. But to answer your question, I do believe that's an option. It would just being about finding that open-minded therapist and endocrinologist or doing it the black market way (DIY) which I don't recommend.

Honestly it is mostly that, the fact that I will never pass and always will be stared at and called "sir" no matter how hard I try. I'll probably just look ridiculous/hideous if I even tried. I know some transwomen live this life and manage to be happy in their own skin regardless (and much respect to them!) but I don't think I have it in me to live that life.
And it's also the idea of coming out to some people though, specifically at work. If I ever come out I would want to find a new job and come out as I move into it and leave the old one without telling them anything.

Quote from: Amy85 on February 24, 2015, 01:31:59 AM
Honestly it is mostly that, the fact that I will never pass and always will be stared at and called "sir" no matter how hard I try. I'll probably just look ridiculous/hideous if I even tried. I know some transwomen live this life and manage to be happy in their own skin regardless (and much respect to them!) but I don't think I have it in me to live that life.

I used to think that.

Quote from: kelly_aus on February 24, 2015, 01:31:43 AM
I thought the same thing. About 18 months on hormones and even dressed in a very masculine fashion, I couldn't pass as a guy. The thing is, you just don't know until you take the plunge..

Good point, and I'm totally willing to keep and open mind. Believe me, being surprised by passing would be a welcome occurance! But sadly not likely.

Quote from: Amy85 on February 24, 2015, 01:31:59 AM
Honestly it is mostly that, the fact that I will never pass and always will be stared at and called "sir" no matter how hard I try. I'll probably just look ridiculous/hideous if I even tried. I know some transwomen live this life and manage to be happy in their own skin regardless (and much respect to them!) but I don't think I have it in me to live that life.
And it's also the idea of coming out to some people though, specifically at work. If I ever come out I would want to find a new job and come out as I move into it and leave the old one without telling them anything.

This means that you aren't wanting to do it for other people but what about your happiness??? Transitioning takes time. A LOT of time. You won't pass overnight but once you get on HRT, things will slowly progress. I suggest taking your time with it. Do the small things first like starting HRT, shaving, working on your voice, electrolysis if needed, and trust me you will progress. If surgery is needed in the future, you can do that as well. But you should not not do something because of others. Do what your heart and mind wants. And like you said, after transition, you can move to a place where no one knows you and start fresh. You will be fine trust me. And more importantly, you will be HAPPY!

Hugs and best wishes to you!

Quote from: LordKAT on February 24, 2015, 01:29:56 AM
The lie was that they wanted to do a full transition instead of just hormones, in order to get the hormones.

I see... So at least some therapists wouldn't approve of going on HRT unless the intention was to fully transition and live full time? That's why the lie was neccessary?

Quote from: Amy85 on February 24, 2015, 01:42:59 AM
I see... So at least some therapists wouldn't approve of going on HRT unless the intention was to fully transition and live full time? That's why the lie was neccessary?

Correct. Therapists will ask you all types of questions and one will be your intentions to transition. To be honest, HRT is prescribed primarily, if not solely, to those that intend to transition. That is the purpose of HRT. But I think there are therapist who will give you the letter of recommendation if they know HRT alone will help with your dysphoria. I don't think lying is a good idea though.

I am doing it, and have been for than 5 years. Most of it was low dose, but full transitioning dose now. I've not had any problems passing as male, although I'm careful to hide my breasts and have a stubble instead of clean shaven - I don't look normal if I shave.

I changed to full HRT as I couldn't stand it anymore, and perhaps that will happen again and I'll transition socially as well. I'm fighting myself not transitioning, and I've discovered that can cause serious problems. I have fear about social transition, but it not my main motivation (or I hope not).

You can always try it and see how it goes. I don't think there's any reason not to, as many people don't present female immediately anyway. You might not be able to stop there, but I guess that's when you overcome the fear and finish it.

I certainly believe its possible to get a therapist to sign off on it, perhaps depending on where you are and who you'd see. I didn't even try so I can't say for sure.

If I were to do it again and seek approval, I must admit I'd be tempted to lie and tell the usual story. I don't have any moral issues doing that, and they wouldn't find out for a really long time anyway and by then its not really important. The real problem is if you actually need the therapist for therapy, and not just to sign the paperwork. Lying is going to compromise what you get out of therapy, and with the fear you have you probably need it.

Thanks everyone, and for the record I won't be trying to lie my way to getting only what I want out of therapy. I plan on somehow finding the courage to lay down all my feelings and issues and relying on the professional to help me find the best path to a happy and healthy life (if there are any).

I appreciate all the responses and kind words

Quote from: Amy85 on February 24, 2015, 01:52:08 AM
Thanks everyone, and for the record I won't be trying to lie my way to getting only what I want out of therapy. I plan on somehow finding the courage to lay down all my feelings and issues and relying on the professional to help me find the best path to a happy and healthy life (if there are any).

I appreciate all the responses and kind words

Sounds like a good plan. Best wishes to you!

Quote from: Amy85 on February 24, 2015, 01:42:59 AM
I see... So at least some therapists wouldn't approve of going on HRT unless the intention was to fully transition and live full time? That's why the lie was neccessary?

Yup, the prescribing doctor understood and was fine with it but the therapist was a bit antiquated in their thinking.

Quote from: JenJen2011 on February 24, 2015, 01:59:40 AM
Sounds like a good plan. Best wishes to you!

Thanks ^_^