Hi Amy

I'm Kind of in the same place, though I've been on HRT for a year and a bit, and I reached that same place from a different starting point, so I'll throw out what I've got and you can see what you think.

I started full dose HRT with the intention of full transition, came out to friends and part of my family, and everyone was very accepting.

I also started 'presenting' as female on weekends and days off.  I'm tall and not what you'd call of slim build.  I got looks and comments, and while there was never anything really nasty, I found it increasingly difficult and eventually it was doing bad things for my self-confidence.  I don't go out in female presentation at all now.  As you say, life is just easier.

Having said that I'm very secure in my female identity, and HRT does make me a calmer, more rounded and nicer person.  If work gets busy and i can't make the injection, my mood and sense of well-being take a nosedive.

HRT is having a slow effect, and I've lost muscle bulk and my face is not the masculine thing that it was.  I also have C cup breasts.  The thing is, I just went to the pool on Sunday and I went topless to swim, and nobody noticed.  There are lots of guys with moobs.  So despite my body and armpits being completely shaven, my hair over my ears, and my beard all but gone from laser, nobody genders me as female.  It's possible to live as male and do HRT for a fair good time.

I would like to make a full transition, and this is not a dream I'm about to abandon. I'm ok with giving that time to happen. 

Find a place where you are happy and and can function as a person.   And I t's ok to move at your own pace on that.

Take care

A. I believe it is wrong to lie to someone in order to get Meds prescribed. Wrong, wrong, wrong.
B. One should never consider self medicating. It's dangerous, and you may think you know the right dosage, but you don't know without proper bloodwork if your body can handle it.

Quote from: Joan on February 24, 2015, 04:34:43 AM
Hi Amy

I'm Kind of in the same place, though I've been on HRT for a year and a bit, and I reached that same place from a different starting point, so I'll throw out what I've got and you can see what you think.

I started full dose HRT with the intention of full transition, came out to friends and part of my family, and everyone was very accepting.

I also started 'presenting' as female on weekends and days off.  I'm tall and not what you'd call of slim build.  I got looks and comments, and while there was never anything really nasty, I found it increasingly difficult and eventually it was doing bad things for my self-confidence.  I don't go out in female presentation at all now.  As you say, life is just easier.

Having said that I'm very secure in my female identity, and HRT does make me a calmer, more rounded and nicer person.  If work gets busy and i can't make the injection, my mood and sense of well-being take a nosedive.

HRT is having a slow effect, and I've lost muscle bulk and my face is not the masculine thing that it was.  I also have C cup breasts.  The thing is, I just went to the pool on Sunday and I went topless to swim, and nobody noticed.  There are lots of guys with moobs.  So despite my body and armpits being completely shaven, my hair over my ears, and my beard all but gone from laser, nobody genders me as female.  It's possible to live as male and do HRT for a fair good time.

I would like to make a full transition, and this is not a dream I'm about to abandon. I'm ok with giving that time to happen. 

Find a place where you are happy and and can function as a person.   And I t's ok to move at your own pace on that.

Take care

Thanks for sharing your story, Joan   It does sound quite a bit like what I expect to experiwnce should I attempt to transition. Good luck in your journey to happiness!

Quote from: Muffinheart on February 24, 2015, 04:44:46 AM
A. I believe it is wrong to lie to someone in order to get Meds prescribed. Wrong, wrong, wrong.
B. One should never consider self medicating. It's dangerous, and you may think you know the right dosage, but you don't know without proper bloodwork if your body can handle it.

Quite right! And rest assured I have no intentions of attempting either of those things I've heard too many warnings against self medication to ever think of attempting it, and I sincerely want my therapista help so I will not spoil the process with lies or misleading information.

Quote from: kelly_aus on February 24, 2015, 01:15:40 AM
There are 2 thoughts wandering through my mind, more questions actually..

What happens if/when the hormones make it impossible to actually pass as a guy? 

And what about if/when you change your mind?

THIS

I've been on/off Low Dose HRT several times over the decades. Low dose is a recognized treatment option to help some manage their dysphoria. It worked miracles, providing me a much need Brain Reset. I wanted/needed to live as a "Normal" male. Transition was not an option for me. After a few months to half a year I stopped. THe secondary effects of E started rearing their ugly head (An another started hiding more often), both totally contrary to "Being Normal". I got a few years or more of relief from the worse of the dysphoria which only does build up over time.

Male Fail is not even a remote possibility for me. Even with the B cup I have. Seeing a few members now in my support group show up scared and confused, eventually get on HRT, and eventually start full-time, it is not like they were trying not to do that. Between how they dressed, hair, mannerism, etc. You go andro, you go all fem. It's the natural order of things for most. For me it's more like having to "Throw the Big Switch". All or nothing.

There is no nothing to what E does to your head. Plus throw in tons more self acceptance along with a good dose of perhaps being out in the real world presenting as the real you, AKA part-timing it. That will all be the most difficult part of long term HRT, especially higher feminizing doses. Jumping back and forth is extremely difficult to do for any length of time, made all the more painfull if done on a routine, as in daily. Most tend to break after a few months of it. THe shear joy of being out in the world as the real you, wins out against the pain of going back to that other person, living a life for others.

I speak with intimate first hand knowledge of it all. I've been doing just that for a good 5 years now as I try to maintain my marriage, my career, my own sense of self which is defined by many things as well as gender. My goal starting this journey 6 years ago was to hopefully bring together these two great aspects of myself to make one whole healthy and happy person. For the most part I have. As my wife said just the other night, We both know who will eventually come out on top. And she is 100% correct. If I knew for certain my job (which I love and pays well) would be secure, I'd flip The Big Switch in a heartbeat. I know where my true joy lies

If You want to remain on HRT for long time You will need to figure out Your low-dosage, but chances are that You might become "addicted" to E and want more and more. Also once You reach certain point of no return, it starts to build up some inner pressure (which You might not be initially aware of) because, well, You left in some sort of undefined and unknown space and sometimes it makes You wondering who You really are (the negative effect which gets me at times is being some kind of misfit - not really belonging to any gender).
Your breast development might have something to say about Your prospects too - if You are thin and delicately built then bewbs will become more obvious and people might start to wonder.
As regards Your daily routines, my observation is that people are fairly ignorant and dont really want to pay attention or overanalyse things which just tend to happen before their eyes. I have many co-workers who have no idea and I know that they will not figure it out by themselves. I can also pass as a male if needed (otherwise I am pretty much full-time andro for job related reasons), but there are things which become harder to bear - like visiting male restroom or (rarely) wearing a power suit, or - for some - even wearing male clothing as such.
To sum it up, it all can be manageable and Your task is doable, yet You should be ready for some surprises or things not really going in the direction You were planning for.

Well, there is kinda difference between losing a job and spiralling downwards quickly or losing the job in the sense of support system, which would still leave one with decent savings and time to find or build alternative sources of income, isn't it?

Quote from: Muffinheart on February 24, 2015, 04:44:46 AM
A. I believe it is wrong to lie to someone in order to get Meds prescribed. Wrong, wrong, wrong.

I'm probably going to be standing alone on this, but I don't agree. It's a bit theoretical, as I've never lied to get meds or any kind of treatment, but I'd have no moral problem in doing it. And I say this as someone who has very very strong objections to lying.

Normally wrong to lie, yes, but always wrong, no. I've heard of enough stories of gatekeepers that I can easily see where I'd do it.

My only concern is my health, and my health is my responsibility not anyone else's. If someone is standing in the way of that then the wrong of lying is more than counter balanced by what they are doing. The practical reason I'd not do it, apart from not needing to, is that if you need therapy its not going to work very well if you're lying about things. I've really needed therapy so I know that value of that, and its not something I'd risk lightly - again looking after my health. I can't see how therapy would be of any help from a gatekeeper though, so no issue there.

I think there's many thing in life we normally take as being clearly right or wrong, but can turn into the opposite given the right circumstances.

I agree with Muffin about lying to a doctor to get prescriptions being a bad idea, at least generally. In the case where the only reason is illogical gatekeeping, I'd be more sympathetic, but I think it'd be wise to try to shop around for a doctor / therapist with whom you can be honest. For a therapist especially, if you cannot trust them with the truth, they are not a good match for you.

Re: the original topic, I am currently on HRT (one full month of E this week!) but not making an outward transition. This is a temporary situation, and honestly, I think it would be really hard for me to do the hormones and not be planning to come out down the road. But that's just me, different people have different needs. It's not all that different from a cis girl/woman who prefers to dress and act in a typically masculine way. If that's your inclination and you don't mind being misgendered relative to your internal sense of being female, then I can totally understand not wanting to take on the additional stress and discomfort of making a public transition. The goal is to be happy, not to jump through hoops.

But sometimes there are ignorant gatekeepers... fortunately, in more and more places you can just get a prescription by asking for one. When I came out to my therapist, I told him what was going on, how I identified, and what I planned to do and he was positive and completely nonjudgmental (aside from being impressed with how comfortable I seemed to be with my newly discovered gender identity, but that's a nice judgmental). He had no hesitation when I asked if he'd write a letter for HRT, but it was unnecessary because my endocrinologist didn't want one (I offered). She didn't even have me sign anything, and I don't think she even asked about my plans for transition. She did ask a lot about my family/social situation (which is supportive and safe) and was glad that I was receiving therapy, but she apparently treats her patients as competent adults. It's a shame that not every doctor is like this, but it's worth looking around to find one.

Amy, thank you for sharing your thoughts and questions. I too feel almost exactly the way you do. I see my therapist tomorrow for the first time, and I will tell him all about who I am, how I feel, my fears of transitioning, and I will not hide anything. This will be the only way to find out what will truly be the course of action I should take. I so want to transition to who I feel I am on the inside, but my outward manliness just seems like too much to overcome. I hope your counseling goes well and you find inner peace and happiness in whatever choices you make in your life.

Hugs, Stanna

The saleswoman/marketeer in me tends to think of it more as "Telling the customer what he needs to hear", not exactly lying. I am sure there is a lot of underlying truth

Quote from: ♡ Emily ♡ on February 24, 2015, 06:35:34 AM
I can also pass as a male if needed

Hi Emily,

I'm guessing that's getting harder though.  Your profile pic has definitely changed a lot recently.  You're looking very feminine these days. 

Paige

When I first accepted my gender identity and started to think of transitioning, I thought I'll go as far as HRT without coming out / going full-time / social transition etc. I simply looked at it as a way to put my brain at peace without needing to do anything else. Ideally, I would want to go all the way and live the life of a cis female, but that is not fully possible, and even what is possible is difficult because of my having a wife, career, family and friends that I do not want to lose.
Actually, even HRT is difficult because of how it may affect my relationship with my wife, and possibly how I behave otherwise as well, but I thought I could work all that out and still go for HRT without social transition.

However, as I have seen on this forum and elsewhere, there may be many unexpected changes from HRT, sometimes even low-dose. I am young enough, already have some feminine features, and resemble my mom a little too much, so being on HRT and expecting to pass as male even after a year or so may become very difficult. Yes, I could probably manage it with short hair, a stubble and my male voice, but then I am already growing my hair and I like it, I am already considering facial hair removal with no possibility of HRT for at least a year or so, and my male voice will only help when I start talking, not otherwise.

So I think HRT without social transition may be an option for some people, but probably not for me. If I do go ahead with HRT and do not reach the 'male-fail' point for long or maybe ever, I may end up not transitioning socially, but it seems highly unlikely.

I've always thought the requirement some therapists have for presenting before you get the tools for presentation a bit cruel.  Not everybody has the same idea of what it is to be a woman.  I can imagine myself presenting as a male (appearance-wise) while going 100% through the physical transition just so I have the correct parts on my body and the correct chemistry in my brain. 

When somebody is confused by this, I don't think they have a firm grasp on what gender dysphoria is, exactly.  That's especially alarming when a therapist doesn't understand.  In a mtf scenario, being woman and overcoming dysphoria isn't necessarily about wearing a dress or doing "girly" things; it's about being a woman.  There are plenty of nontrans ciswomen who present rather masculine by cultural standards just because they want to and it doesn't make them any less a woman.  The pressure for a transwoman to present as a stereotype of what a woman is "supposed" to be like is ignorant.

I found I didn't understand what HRT does mentally until I started.

Its easy to see the physical effects on people and its easy enough to relate to them, but the mental side's not like that. The point being that you can speculate on what might happen when you start, but there's only one way you're going to find out. On then will you know what you want, and even then I found that slowly changed over time.

I'm not completely satisfied where I've stopped, HRT but not social, but its ok. Before HRT I couldn't cope and now I can, and I'm reasonably happy with it. Perhaps its better to go further, but it also going to cost me a lot, and its nowhere near worth the sacrifice given how I am now. Perhaps I'm lucky in a way that my gender problems are not worse, I'm just not sure if its good luck or bad.

I've stopped having expectations of where I'm going. Nothings worked out the way I expected, and I can't even remember what I was expecting. I just take it as it goes now and see what happens.

For the OP:

Sure it's an option to take hormones and live as your assigned sex.  There's no one way to be trans*.  But you will encounter some people who disagree and believe you must do x, y, and z or who are otherwise skeptical of what you are suggesting.  I would suggest ignoring them.  You chart your own course.

You can work with your doctor to figure out doses that are low enough to get you where you want to be.

How it works out in practice varies from person to person.  After about 4-6 months of low dose HRT, I lost the ability the pass as male even while walking around in a suit and tie and employing many ftm type tricks to make it work.  At that point, I am not sure I could be said to be living as male.

Your mileage may vary.

It is possible; I know several folk on HRT for a variety of reasons with no intent to transition including me.  In my case I was originally prescribed HRT for a  misdiagnosis of gender dysphoria. My medication turned out to provide a level of peace for very different reasons once I was correctly diagnosed with Dissociative Identity Disorder/Multiple Personality Disorder (DID/MPD).  See Childhood Trauma Survivor Misdiagnosed as Transsexual with Gender Dysphoria at https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,176195.new.html#new

Quote from: Amy85 on February 24, 2015, 01:31:59 AM
Honestly it is mostly that, the fact that I will never pass and always will be stared at and called "sir" no matter how hard I try. I'll probably just look ridiculous/hideous if I even tried. I know some transwomen live this life and manage to be happy in their own skin regardless (and much respect to them!) but I don't think I have it in me to live that life.

You may be surprised. I thought I would be on HRT for over a year before I changed my presentation - that I would have to consistently fail at boy mode before I felt ready.  Well within a few months on hrt I just felt better overall and I stopped caring about passing.  I changed my presentation everywhere but work and I went completely full time (including legal name change) at 7 months on HRT.  I would say I pass about 50% of the time. Don't get me wrong, I wish I could pass and it sucks when I don't, but I just don't care enough anymore to stop me from being me.

Quote from: Muffinheart on February 24, 2015, 04:44:46 AM
A. I believe it is wrong to lie to someone in order to get Meds prescribed. Wrong, wrong, wrong.

That would be true if our healthcare system was even halfway functional for trans people.  Unfortunately that is not the world we live in. If lying is the only way to obtain necessary treatment, I see that as a much better alternative to severe depression or suicide.

Just playing devils advocate, but what if you talk doctors out of a script for hormones not intending to transition, get more than you bargained on with  physical changes and have trouble adjusting? No doctor would trust you past that point. It could be a much harder road than you originally got on.

Quote from: Jessica Merriman on February 25, 2015, 12:23:12 AM
Just playing devils advocate, but what if you talk doctors out of a script for hormones not intending to transition, get more than you bargained on with  physical changes and have trouble adjusting? No doctor would trust you past that point. It could be a much harder road than you originally got on.

Just playing devils advocate, but find another doctor and lie some more...

Quote from: AnonyMs on February 25, 2015, 12:27:38 AM
Just playing devils advocate, but find another doctor and lie some more...

When do they stop then? When your internal organs are mush or the person commits suicide?