Do you guys have any questions you wish you could ask cis people? I know I'm not making sense. I mean, this probably makes more sense if you realized you were trans "late" and there were always things you wondered whether people felt the same way about? Like for example, I always wondered whether females felt the same sense of dislike towards their chests I did.

I was talking to Carol Gilligan for an hour the other day, and a few questions she came up with were, why aren't more people transgender (I take it that she meant nonbinary)? And why are so many people comfortable identifying within the (socially constructed) binary? And why don't most people think about gender identity?

I mean I don't know how to explain this, but sometimes I feel like there isn't much communication between the trans community and cis people in general, because as trans people we try to justify the way we identify by distancing ourselves from the experiences of cisgendered people (or maybe this is just me?), but I'm not quite sure that we quite understand the cis perspective on things, do we?

This is just me trying to brainstorm a research question for class.. Your thoughts would be much appreciated.

On a different note, kinda got outed in class when I was talking about my topic and she kept saying that this was interesting because I'm "looking at the gender binary from the outside..." Lol.

I've always wondered what it felt like to be male and be happy with the male role. To like the fact that you're basically required not to show too much fear or tenderness and to act strong all the time. To like the fact that the world is not respectful of your feelings. To be expected to be comfortable with violence.

I found all of those things horrible. I used to assume all males did, or many, but it wasn't until I explored my gendered identity that I realized and noticed that men weren't complaining. Men complain about just about everything that bothers them, and they're more than happy to work to change things they don't like, so I have to assume men are mostly OK with those roles.

How would that feel?

I decided on psychology as a career in high school because I didn't understand people. Turned out I just didn't understand men. Studying psychology didn't help. To this day I can't imagine being happy in that role. I've talked to men I know about it. Seems they don't think about it they just do it. They do say, at least the ones I've talked to, that they don't understand women. Makes me wonder about non-binaries. Do they understand both, or neither?

I have this one cis male friend... two lady friends and I were talking about him one day -- one of them had been a sex buddy with him -- and we joked about him flexing in the mirror while having sex.

I asked him once if while having sex, he got off on being male. He said he'd never really thought about it. Inconclusive, I suppose.

As a boy, I was never a "flexxer." Even as I took up gymnastics and got stronger and stronger, I still couldn't stomach the idea of getting big. And when I did get comments on how I was getting bigger, I wasn't happy about it.

So... what were we talking about again?

How did cis males get so brave to ask a girl out? I could never do this.

As for why so many people identify with the cis normative binary I'd say it's a combo of social pressure and biology. If we are trans because our minds don't align with our biology then the same us true in reverse for cis people, they're born that way. There probably are more trans oeople, it's just that the sheer pressure of society, vilification and the innumerable expensive, dangerous and painful hurdles are either too much or aren't available at all.

Quote from: ImagineKate on March 03, 2015, 03:41:13 PM
How did cis males get so brave to ask a girl out? I could never do this.

I just figured it was an equal amount of chutzpah and ability to BS.

Quote from: ImagineKate on March 03, 2015, 03:41:13 PM
How did cis males get so brave to ask a girl out? I could never do this.

Well, not a cis male, here, but I did do a fair amount of this. It was either speak up or be alone, 'cause nobody was gonna ask me out.

I never could do it. It just never felt like something I should be doing. I still ended up being married twice though.

I asked 5 or 6 Cis gender people I came out to if they every questioned their gender, other than a faint curiosity once or twice. I was stunned by their response. I knew I was different.

Quote from: Cynthia Michelle on March 03, 2015, 06:23:53 PM
I asked 5 or 6 Cis gender people I came out to if they every questioned their gender, other than a faint curiosity once or twice. I was stunned by their response. I knew I was different.

I asked my wife at the beginning of my transition.

She responded "never" rather quickly. She also said she is extremely happy to be a woman.

Quote from: ImagineKate on March 03, 2015, 09:50:57 PM
I asked my wife at the beginning of my transition.

She responded "never" rather quickly. She also said she is extremely happy to be a woman.

Mine has a similar response. I find it very reassuring, because there's absolutely no question I'm different...

We were talking today and I asked if she was convinced yet, now that I've been on HRT for a month, that I'm really going to do this. (She's ecstatic about my transition and was initially very concerned that I'd change my mind and leave her feeling horribly disappointed.) She said she actually still worries a little and has trouble totally believing it's happening, mostly because she just can't imagine anyone feeling that they'd want to "change" genders.

I find that pretty amusing, though I'm sympathetic---if I were in her position, I'd be thrilled with my birth gender, too! (Although, I must say, I do feel oddly privileged to be trans.)

Quote from: ImagineKate on March 03, 2015, 03:41:13 PM
How did cis males get so brave to ask a girl out? I could never do this.

They do it the same way anybody else does. Bite the bullet and ask. DO IT BECAUSE IT SCARES YOU.

Quote from: ImagineKate on March 03, 2015, 09:50:57 PM
I asked my wife at the beginning of my transition.

She responded "never" rather quickly. She also said she is extremely happy to be a woman.

Interesting, though. Since my transition, I've never been interested in being a different gender. Despite the fact that I don't "feel like a woman", I have had zero moments where I haven't wanted to be one. So I'm now much closer to the way a cisgender person thinks.

Quote from: MugwortPsychonaut on March 04, 2015, 07:51:39 AM
They do it the same way anybody else does. Bite the bullet and ask. DO IT BECAUSE IT SCARES YOU.

Lol thanks but I'm married.

Quote from: suzifrommd on March 04, 2015, 07:56:20 AM
Interesting, though. Since my transition, I've never been interested in being a different gender. Despite the fact that I don't "feel like a woman", I have had zero moments where I haven't wanted to be one. So I'm now much closer to the way a cisgender person thinks.

Sometimes I've been wanting to go back. These are very rare but it happens.

For example when I got clocked really badly.

Then there are social situations like hanging out with the guys at the range. However they've fully accepted me and one of them calls me his big sister. He's even getting me a cute pair of shoes.

But now that I do pass I really don't wanna go back. Not in a million years. I'm a girl, that's my plan and I'm sticking to it.

Quote from: suzifrommd on March 03, 2015, 12:40:36 PM
I've always wondered what it felt like to be male and be happy with the male role. To like the fact that you're basically required not to show too much fear or tenderness and to act strong all the time. To like the fact that the world is not respectful of your feelings. To be expected to be comfortable with violence.

I found all of those things horrible. I used to assume all males did, or many, but it wasn't until I explored my gendered identity that I realized and noticed that men weren't complaining. Men complain about just about everything that bothers them, and they're more than happy to work to change things they don't like, so I have to assume men are mostly OK with those roles.

How would that feel?

NOTE: as I present male 99% of the time, this applies to me.

I find that there's less pressure to hide your feelings nowadays.  I often accept my emotional states and just get on with whatever I'm doing.  If I'm sad, I'd rather distract my mind, but I won't pretend I'm okay if someone close to me asks.  With people I consider acquaintances or nothing beyond workmates, I  keep things to myself, but I'll share with those I'm comfortable with.

If I'm feeling depressed (I'm talking about a constant state characterized by crippling boredom and apathy so bad you hate everything), I'd much rather keep it to myself.  And I often do feel mild depression and it's only mild instead of serious because of the medication.

I don't like showing tenderness because I think that makes me look weak.  I always felt that way even when questioning and that wouldn't change if, in an parallel universe, I ever transitioned to female.  I hate looking weak full stop.  Unfortunately, that attitude stopped me from seeking help when I really, really needed it.

I don't know any guy who acts strong all the time.  Maybe one or two, but I haven't spoken to them since school.  I'd rather not look strong, just confident and self-assured.

I hear a lot about male stereotypes and rarely encounter them.  Violence is one particular trait.  The few men I meet who love violence are mocked by other men (and everyone, for that matter).  I'm not okay with it, neither are most of the men I hang around with and I avoid interacting with those who revel in it.

Maybe I just don't seek the company of people who are stupid.

Let me say this:

1. People conflate sex and gender together.  If they have male genitalia and secondary sex characteristics, and the world tells them they are male, they usually can't think that they are anything else other than male, the same for females.

2. Society does a lot to support and reinforce the gender roles that people are assigned.  Think of the toys and the complements that people in society routinely give to people based on their ability to conform to the ideals of their gender role.

3. Relationships and the top people in society do a lot to reinforce the gender roles.  Beautiful women look for masculine, confident, and/or rich men, while desirable men look for beautiful, feminine women.  Everyone else thus thinks that they have to strive to meet those standards if they want to have an ideal mate.  Men thus have to be confident, put up a strong front, conform to that masculine standard, and/or get rich if they want to have a shot to get a "desirable" woman.  Women have to be feminine and pretty if they want to have a shot in getting a "desirable" man. 

And people in relationships do a lot to reinforce gender roles.  Look at how many women have a problem once they find their man to either be a cross dresser or a TS.  Women want their men to be men.  Men often go the other direction if their woman stops being attractive.  And attraction is often linked to the ability of the other person to conform to the ideals of the gender role. 

4. This is important.  Within the male gender, males get the idea since very little (at least when I was growing up) that to be "feminine" is taboo among males, and that it is weak and inferior and only for females.  It is gender snobiness, but the idea is reinforced among males that male desires are superior, to be "feminine" is weak and an embarrassment and thus is something to be looked down on.  Thus it takes a strong male with an "I don't give a f*** about what anyone else thinks" to get away with gender bending in the male gender world.  So thus males have further disincentive to think outside of the male gender box (whereas women don't, which is why they gender bend more.)

What I want to know is what makes effeminate guys tick. Not MTFs or androgynes but you know, the guy who would wear guyliner and generally have effeminate mannerisms. I want to know what makes them like their lifestyle. I suspect it's just like me; where I feel comfortable expressing myself in the way I feel natural in.

I've always wondered what is like to be female and be comfortable in the female gender role. To like being feminine and to wear dresses and make up, and to always feel the need to look attractive and pretty. To like it when men threat you like a lady, open doors for you, offer you help if you are carrying something heavy, pay the taps in restaurants for you, etc. To like the idea of being a housewife and a mother and to be seen as something fragile that always needs to be protected. I was very surprized when I discovered that most women actually like all these things. I've always hated it when somebody treated me like this and got angry at them.

Also, I would like to know how cis people just know what they are and never question their gender. Everyone I asked about it even said that they were extremely happy with their gender and were glad that they were born this way. I just want to know what is like to feel happy about being a woman, because as a teenager I was always trying to make myself feel comfortable as female, but nothing worked.

Quote from: suzifrommd on March 03, 2015, 12:40:36 PM
I've always wondered what it felt like to be male and be happy with the male role. To like the fact that you're basically required not to show too much fear or tenderness and to act strong all the time. To like the fact that the world is not respectful of your feelings. To be expected to be comfortable with violence.

I found all of those things horrible. I used to assume all males did, or many, but it wasn't until I explored my gendered identity that I realized and noticed that men weren't complaining. Men complain about just about everything that bothers them, and they're more than happy to work to change things they don't like, so I have to assume men are mostly OK with those roles.

How would that feel?

As someone who identifies as a cis-genderless (Meaning that I identify as male, but lacks a feeling of gender because my identity is based off what observations tells me and not because of feelings as it's more convenient), and you could say that practically I am a cis-male, but that being said... Some of us males are comfortable following male roles, and other simply do not give a damn about gender roles. Where I'm at, gender roles are practically dead except we have a silent dress code rule.

Quote from: Katelyn on March 04, 2015, 12:58:39 PM
Let me say this:

1. People conflate sex and gender together.  If they have male genitalia and secondary sex characteristics, and the world tells them they are male, they usually can't think that they are anything else other than male, the same for females.

2. Society does a lot to support and reinforce the gender roles that people are assigned.  Think of the toys and the complements that people in society routinely give to people based on their ability to conform to the ideals of their gender role.

3. Relationships and the top people in society do a lot to reinforce the gender roles.  Beautiful women look for masculine, confident, and/or rich men, while desirable men look for beautiful, feminine women.  Everyone else thus thinks that they have to strive to meet those standards if they want to have an ideal mate.  Men thus have to be confident, put up a strong front, conform to that masculine standard, and/or get rich if they want to have a shot to get a "desirable" woman.  Women have to be feminine and pretty if they want to have a shot in getting a "desirable" man. 

And people in relationships do a lot to reinforce gender roles.  Look at how many women have a problem once they find their man to either be a cross dresser or a TS.  Women want their men to be men.  Men often go the other direction if their woman stops being attractive.  And attraction is often linked to the ability of the other person to conform to the ideals of the gender role. 

4. This is important.  Within the male gender, males get the idea since very little (at least when I was growing up) that to be "feminine" is taboo among males, and that it is weak and inferior and only for females.  It is gender snobiness, but the idea is reinforced among males that male desires are superior, to be "feminine" is weak and an embarrassment and thus is something to be looked down on.  Thus it takes a strong male with an "I don't give a f*** about what anyone else thinks" to get away with gender bending in the male gender world.  So thus males have further disincentive to think outside of the male gender box (whereas women don't, which is why they gender bend more.)

Some points to consider.

1. There exists some people who gets the idea of what is gender, but prefers to identify based upon sex because it's simply more convenient while it is what observations tells them without accounting for feeling. To some, their identity is based off sex for the same reason why people would identify as having X-colored eyes simply because that is what their mirror is showing them, and not because of feelings if they even have one of gender in the first place.

2. Some places do not encourage gender roles or gender roles is non-existent in some places. This means that some people are free to act in a way which are not bounded by role rules.

Also, I'm free to be questioned as I am cis. Feel free to hit me up in this thread.

Quote from: CrazyNeko on March 04, 2015, 10:04:00 PMAlso, I would like to know how cis people just know what they are and never question their gender.

Keep in mind a lot of people identify that way simply because that is what their body is saying to them much in the same way someone would identify as having a blue eyes because of well, they know they have it after looking at a mirror. Not all cis-individuals have a feeling of gender or have a internal concept of gender. Some people like me just identify as male simply because having a penis, and it has nothing to do with feelings at all.