So tonight I went over to my friends house for drinks with them. I had come out to them earlier this week, so I went as me (in that dress in the "can I look or pass" thread).

Today all day I had zero problems passing outside of my friends' house. Grocery store, gas station, Lowe's etc. Not a problem.

At my friends house, everyone acts more or less normal around me as if I'm the same person. I actually didn't mind that. Pronouns are a different story, however. They did not use the right ones even though I asked. Well I shouldn't say all of them, one of them did.

The worst was their 4 year old daughter (who knows me), looks at me up and down for about 5 minutes (I am surprised she had an attention span that long) and then plucks up the courage to ask, "are you a boy?" I of course said, "no." Then her parents said, "that's rude to ask, go to your room." No attempt to even say, "no that's not a boy" or anything... But then the misgendering continued. I mean it wasn't mean or nasty or anything but they used the wrong pronouns.

So I know people familiar with you remember you and all and will misgender you, but aren't your friends at least supposed to make an effort to respect your pronouns and wishes?

I'm beginning to think I need new friends.

I mean I don't pass 100% (I'm only on HRT a few months anyway and I have a bit of facial hair) but I do pass with strangers if I make an effort to. When I do my voice surgery I expect to pass even better. But it would be nice for my friends at least to gender me correctly.

I'm sorry your friends aren't really accepting. There's nothing to do but to bring the topic of pronouns up with them again, and if they cannot adjust, then yes, it may be time for new friends.

I also find the way they dealt with their kid very inappropriate. I think they missed a great chance of educating their kid. Like, teach them how to politely ask for someone's gender if they are not sure.

My friends claim to be accepting but I wonder what that really means.

They probably think if they remain friends with me and don't insult me by calling me a ->-bleeped-<- that is good enough. But who knows.

I have a few boneheaded friends that still slip up, as does my MIL.  For the first year it was much worse.  I decided that I would give everyone a year's free pass on referring to me by my birth name and male pronouns.  It does take time to wrap one's head around a friend or family member's transition.  If they insist on doing it just to hurt you, then it's time to move on.

People who knew you as male are used to using male pronouns around you.  I don't think they mean disrespect, they just need some time to adjust. I have siblings that sometimes call me by my boy name. But more and more they call me Natalie. Give them some time and see what happens.  Most people don't even know how to approach a Trans person, it's you're chance to educate.

Like Jill I gave an internal time frame. It does take time to adjust.

Treatment of the child that was wrong IMO.

As far as MIL, I just spent the afternoon with mine in an aged care facility, she introduced me to her friends as her DiL. When she was asked who I was married to she replied her daughter.

There were a few goldfish moments! She is 94. People change, it just takes time and we need to wear armour.

If you only came out a few days ago, it's going to be hard for them to wrap their heads around at first. Many people are very accepting/supportive of the transgender community, but without a personal connection (e.g. a close friend coming out to them) they don't always know what that support or acceptance should actually respectfully entail. A little misgendering doesn't mean they don't support you, they're just figuring out what that really means in their own time. Also, pronouns are about the hardest thing for people to get; even a month or so after I came out, my boss would accidentally say things like "Miss Andrew," which sounds funny, but pronouns really are just difficult. Over time he's gotten way better, though.

I know how hard it is being misgendered to people that you feel should have the common sense to switch instantly, but it's equally difficult for them to switch genders as it is for you to hear the wrong one. Think about it this way: you didn't have to change your pronouns toward yourself in conversation because you will always be 'I' or 'me' to yourself, but all your friends/family have to switch pronoun genders entirely. It can be really difficult for many! Also, sometimes people throw each other off; if one person uses the wrong pronoun in a conversation, it's very hard for the other people so switch back to the correct pronoun mid-conversation.

Hope everything works out with your friends!

Thanks for the replies so far.

Understand that while it is new for them, it is also new for me! I am out to more people than ever before. Last year I hid this from everyone. I sort of expected that if I come out that they'd at least help me here. I know it isn't instant but there didn't seem to be any effort AT ALL.

As for the person who said pronouns aren't important, wrong! Would you be OK if people constantly used the wrong ones? Maybe you would but I'm not. Perception by others is extremely important. Even if people don't see me as a female, at least by acknowledging me as one with pronouns they show that they at least are trying to understand.

In any case I am going to give people about a year or so. I will definitely be a very different person then and that should help some. I hope.

I do have a friend or two that claims to be "accepting " and that we have been friends for very long and always been, but he still sees me as the person i was before... never even bothers trying to use the correct name or pronouns.  IMO, that is called "tolerating", and NOT accepting.....

Its very obvious who even tries, and why do they really need so long? Honesty,  why can some people  get used to the new you so fast while others never get it??? The answer is, because they dont care or dont want to!

I am busy pulling away from those friends and family that dont treat me like i should be treated. It is sometimes very hard, but in my opinion  very nessasary!

I refuse to even go out in publuc with my parents anymore because of them refusing to gender me correctly. And you know what, its their loss!
Unfortunately due to financial  circumstances, i have to stay with them for now,  but i basically exclude myself from them as much as possible.

My only advice i could offer is to get away from negative family and friends as fast as you can.

It's not about passing.

It's not about acceptance.

It's not about tolerance.

It's about respect.

If they continuously misgender you, they don't respect you. Cut them out like an ingrown nail. You don't need that.

This stuff takes time.

I still have friends that use male pronouns with me, some, because they do not want to use the female ones. I just decided not to mind. When it is rude, I tell them to stop. If it is just their hang up, in spite of still liking me, I really don't care.

I am not becoming female instantly. Transition takes time for me. I will offer my friends and family time too. It is only fair.

That said, I am in a pretty Andro phase right now, I really am enjoying gender fluidity.

Quote from: StrykerXIII on March 08, 2015, 01:42:40 AM
It's not about passing.

It's not about acceptance.

It's not about tolerance.

It's about respect.

If they continuously misgender you, they don't respect you. Cut them out like an ingrown nail. You don't need that.

Bravo! My thoughts exactly.

I feel like it's hard to explain those things to a 4 year old, so maybe you shouldn't expect that, especially right away, and it's just a week later your coming out, they need more time to get used to. I mean you probably had more time to understand yourself, give more time to others to adjust to that as well! Good luck with everything 🙂

they have probably known you a long time, and are trying to treat you the same as before, in their mind they most likely associate you with male and male appearance, and it will take a while for them to change that, as its not something you really consciously think of. i think it would be bad to just cut your friends out of your life completely over this, and to just keep reminding them when the slip up in the meantime, and if it is consistently over a long period, then maybe think about really talking to them about how you feel.

i think with the four year old, it was kinda hard for them to know what to do, with you in front of them as well. its something that they have probebly never had before, and they are trying to support you when they told the kid off, even if it wasn't the best thing to do, it shows they do care and support you, and are just trying their best to make sure you are accepted, or rather stick up for you.

hope it all works out and you can remain friends, but remember, friends don't purposefully make you feel down, and if they do, then you are better off without, but friends can inadvertently make you feel down sometimes.

hope it all works out 🙂

How many years did it take for you to accept this as who you are? Now you just have them a few days, did you accept it all in a few days?

It is unreasonable to expect immediate acceptance from every corner of our lives no matter how much we might want it too. They need time just like you did. Educate and remind them of proper use. Show them you are still you and live by example.

After several brutal months my mother is starting to warm up to me again.


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Quote from: ImagineKate on March 08, 2015, 12:27:43 AM
So tonight I went over to my friends house for drinks with them. I had come out to them earlier this week, so I went as me

...

But it would be nice for my friends at least to gender me correctly.

I think you are expecting a bit much. You only told then very recently and it will week, months or possibly years for them to adapt. "Days" is too short a timescale. People who have known you for years or decades might still slip occasionally even after some years.

I have also experienced this. It has made me wonder about whether it is worth keeping old friends or is it better to work on making new ones and let the past go. I have seriously considered letting go old friends who do try and get gendering right because I get the odd feeling every now and then that somewhere in the depths of their mind they still view me as a male and always will.

It is part of our burden, but I would not make a issue of it unless it becomes spiteful or malicious.

Quote from: ImagineKate on March 08, 2015, 01:30:10 AM
... I sort of expected that if I come out that they'd at least help me here. I know it isn't instant but there didn't seem to be any effort AT ALL. ...

Although it does take people time to get the pronouns right, it's also reasonable to expect your friends to make a serious effort.

If they aren't at least catching and correcting themselves from time to time, they aren't making an effort IMHO, and that's just not friendly.

Quote from: Cindy on March 08, 2015, 01:18:15 AM
As far as MIL, I just spent the afternoon with mine in an aged care facility, she introduced me to her friends as her DiL. When she was asked who I was married to she replied her daughter.

Cindy, I love this story. 🙂

My own mom is very supportive. But she wasn't even aware of when she was using pronouns. It's taken a year, but now she gets it right about 75% of the time. It's helped that she is open to gentle correction.

It does take take for people to adjust. As long as they are making an effort to use the proper pronouns I'm perfectly fine with that. I came out prior to presenting full time so that gave people more time to get used to it prior to me going full time. Most of my friends now that tell me that can't even picture me being male any longer and only see me as a woman. One rule of thumb I've found to be somewhat true is that it takes to be around someone 20% of the time you've know them to adjust to fully adjust to proper pronouns with a maximum time of 3-4 months for those that knew you your entire like (like patents). Most of my family are fully used to proper pronouns but occasionally still mess up, but they's also messed up on names between all my siblings in the past. So it can happen and it's not even trans related sometimes.

Here is the thing though.

I get that it takes time to adjust. I truly do. I don't expect everyone to magically just switch completely overnight.

But the point is that there seemed to be zero effort, except by one person, and even so only privately with me.