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Facial Feminization Needs/Assessment

Started by Auroramarianna, March 11, 2015, 05:23:28 AM

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Auroramarianna

Hiii!!

I am 18, and still haven't started HRT. However, I am growing my hair out and plucking my eyebrows will get laser next week, so I'm progressing. However, I hatehatehate my face and believe I could benefit from FFS. What do you think I will need? Can I ask for an honest assessment, so I know what i should get done in the future? I think nose is one of my biggest, uh, tells. It's just so big. Oh and probably my forehead.

I hope I can pass without FFS. But I believe I will at some point get FFS anyway because I would just feel so much better, with more confidence. And i really don't like my nose and this has nothing to do with being trans. I just ughhh don't like it, lol.

I really love Facial Team. If I won the lottery, I would immediately check-in for it, ehehhe. I hope that maybe one day I will be able to afford it, or can convince my parents to help, though, this is unlikely as they are unsupportive. Agh. I only have my brother's support.

so, this is me: ughhhh


thanks for the help! input appreciated

XOXO  :-*
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Eveline

Sweetie, I think your face is very soft and feminine. You have pretty eyes and lips, and a tapered chin. Lucky girl!

Although the photos are a little fuzzy, it looks like you have minimal brow bossing, and everyone hates their nose.

Based on what I've seen for others in this forum, you should be very happy with HRT. I also think you would look pretty amazing with makeup right now. :)
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lana777

Hi , I will start off by saying im jealous of your hairline haha . Personally this is what I would have done

*Forehead work
*Nose job
*Upper lip lift 
*Chin implant ( just for a little balance for your profile )

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mmmmm

Your upper face area is typically masculine, so fixing brow bossing, forehead angle, feminizing orbital rims and a new connection between forehead and nose would make a huge difference in overall appearance and most importantly eye expression. A rhinoplastly goes together with forehead work, I would suggest you don't opt out to do rhinoplasty first, as a new shaped forehead would be quite different.
Other than that I see a possible improvement with upper lip-lift (btw, you have a beautiful lips!), and sliding genioplasty, to bring your chin slighty more forward, mostly for overall balance of the face. But these two things aren't nearly as important as forehead area and nose. I also think you have a possibility for an amazing result. Keeping the nose shape slightly ethnic would maybe be a good idea, but that might not be exactly what you want, which is the most important thing.
Facial team would definitely be a good choice.
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spooky

When the time comes, I'd give hormones a year or two to do their thing. That and with your hair grown out I have a feeling you probably won't need any surgery.
:icon_chick:
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Pandora

Quote from: Auroramarianna on March 11, 2015, 05:23:28 AM
I hope I can pass without FFS. But I believe I will at some point get FFS anyway because I would just feel so much better, with more confidence.

Quite honestly there are a lot of cis-females out there with more masculine features than you. From the photos shown I am sure you will be able to pass facially without FFS. You could consider doing just a rhinoplasty rather than full FFS if the nose is bothering you. To be honest I'm not sure you need a lip-lift or chin implants - they look great to me as they are. You may not even need forehead work either unless the bossing is more pronounced than it appears in the photos. Very jealous!

Quote from: spooky on March 11, 2015, 11:24:01 AM
When the time comes, I'd give hormones a year or two to do their thing.

This is excellent advice!

Hugs, Pandora
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Auroramarianna

Thank you so much girls!!!! What concerns me is really forehead and nose. And I never heard of orbital rims. Can someone explain this to me?

I like men, so given that I am trans, I think most will only be open to dating me if I am exceptionally pretty and I don't think I am :( I hate my nose. It is larger than most men's actually. But I like my eyes.  I dunno. I want to be faithful to my blood and still look similar to people in my family and not like I don't belong there, so yeah.

I dunno girls .about genioplasty I don't really understand. Isnt a small chin a plus?
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Pandora

Quote from: Auroramarianna on March 11, 2015, 12:36:20 PM
I dunno girls .about genioplasty I don't really understand. Isnt a small chin a plus?

I'm on your side with this one but I think in the end it comes down to personal taste. I think a small non-projecting chin looks very beautiful and feminine.
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Carrie Liz

Frankly, to my eyes, your face looks so unbelievably feminine that it's not even fair. :P

The only angle that looked the least bit masculine in any way was the 3/4 view, where you could see a little bit of brow bossing and maybe a nose profile that's not the most feminine, but that's it. Your lips, your cheek structure, your big open eyes, the small overall size of your head, I have a feeling that HRT and transition as a whole are going to be VERY kind to you, and FFS will be completely optional and mostly unnecessary.
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Auroramarianna

Quote from: Carrie Liz on March 11, 2015, 01:21:36 PM
Frankly, to my eyes, your face looks so unbelievably feminine that it's not even fair. :P

The only angle that looked the least bit masculine in any way was the 3/4 view, where you could see a little bit of brow bossing and maybe a nose profile that's not the most feminine, but that's it. Your lips, your cheek structure, your big open eyes, the small overall size of your head, I have a feeling that HRT and transition as a whole are going to be VERY kind to you, and FFS will be completely optional and mostly unnecessary.

Awwww Carrie!!! You are too kind  :-* I seem to never believe it. I am finally growing my hair out and getting laser on my upper lip and chin (I don't have much). So yeah my lazy butt is finally moving lol

I just really want to be accepted as a woman. It helps that my voice never lowered like a man's. I am so grateful for that but I feel like my face is mannish. Ugh
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mmmmm

Orbital rims are upper and partly lateral edges of orbital cavity, and are the single most important gender marker on ones face. Many people even out of those who are researching this topics for their own future FFS, don't understand this, and mostly think about brow bossing, square chin, wide jaw as the features which have the most masculine effect. While some ciswomen also have more or less prominent brow bossing, it very rarely occurs in combination with masculine shaped orbital rims. This is why some brow bossing on women doesn't make their face appear masculine, and they don't get misgendered because of having some brow bossing. While this is a case for cis-women, with trans women it's whole different story, as masculine orbital rims almost always go together with even the slightest brow bossing. And even in case where a person doesn't have any brow bossing, she might have masculine shape of orbital rims. The direct result of orbital rims shape is eye expression, which is either masculine or feminine or androgynous (androgynous is often the case after FFS). And eye expression in the end is what makes you being read as a man or a woman. It makes a slightly less difference for a trans women with prominently deep-set eyes, than for everyone else though. One thing about reshaping the orbital rims to a feminine shape is, it can't always be shaped efficiently enough, and thus resulting in poorer FFS result. This is usually the case where people only see brow bossing as a problem and choose to have a surgery with a doctor unable to perform a proper "type3" reconstruction, and the lower forehead in overall isn't set back far enough, to where would a surgeon be able to do a proper feminization of orbital rims. In other words, you can't fix one without the other. Where a surgeons (mostly those who only perform a type 1 shaving) can't make a satisfying feminization effect with remodeling of orbital rims, they in most cases go for a different feminizing approach, which result in eyebrow place too high, in unnatural position (natural position for eyebrows is determined by orbital rims), which also results in unnatural look. But it is not evident for everyone, as most people don't really know what to look for. Most of the patients are quite pleased with overdone brow lift, as their apperance and eye expression shifted towards feminine. I guess this is what is worth researching for those who want a natural looking FFS result. By focusing solely on this, a problem with choosing the right surgeon becomes much less of the problem, as there aren't even many well-known FFS surgeons who understand the importance and full feminizing effect of this. 


Small chin is a plus. A chin which is set too back is a minus, not that much as a masculine/feminine factor , but as a overall facial balance. Facial balance/facial harmony result in an attractive face, and otherwise. It is not essential, but you would definitely benefit with this. Every FFS surgeon would mention this to you. I don't think an implant would be the best choice as your chin is already "pointy", so sliding genioplasty would be the better choice to bring your chin more forward, and improve projection. And Facial team don't do chin implants, (they hate chin implants!) so they would only offer sliding genioplasty.

I agree with other, you should be at least around a year on HRT first. But it is important to understand that HRT won't do much if anything for your forehead-orbital area and nose. I think you would see positive effects with fuller cheeks and smoother overall appearance. And then see how things are going with "passing" or should I say blending-in, and then seek for what and how much FFS to get done if any.
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Auroramarianna

Thank you so much for the detailed explanation! So is this what makes women's eyes stand out more??

Do you think FFS will be essential for me to pass and blend in? does facial team work with orbital rims??

I definitely wouldn't want an unnatural look and I dread eyebrow lifts.

Thx xoxo
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mmmmm

Yes, also, because there isn't any prominent bone structure hanging right above the eyes. (other than small percentage of cis-women with masculine shaped orbital rims... which is usually connected with hormonal imbalance during puberty, genetics, etc...)

I sadly can't answer this question. There is so much more to passing than just facial features. You are starting young, you have all the chances for having fantastic results from HRT. In a worst case scenario, you'll need a little FFS work (main focus upper face and nose), and you end up looking not only 100% feminine but also really really beautiful. -> This is not such a bad "worst case" scenario, other than the expense part.

Dr. Capitan and Dr. Simon are both great surgeons (the whole team is extremly professional), and they looked for inspiration and approach at the best facial&FFS surgeon, so that's a good thing.

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Pandora

Quote from: mmmmm on March 11, 2015, 01:38:57 PM
Orbital rims are upper and partly lateral edges of orbital cavity, and are the single most important gender marker on ones face. Many people even out of those who are researching this topics for their own future FFS, don't understand this, and mostly think about brow bossing, square chin, wide jaw as the features which have the most masculine effect. While some ciswomen also have more or less prominent brow bossing, it very rarely occurs in combination with masculine shaped orbital rims. This is why some brow bossing on women doesn't make their face appear masculine, and they don't get misgendered because of having some brow bossing. While this is a case for cis-women, with trans women it's whole different story, as masculine orbital rims almost always go together with even the slightest brow bossing. And even in case where a person doesn't have any brow bossing, she might have masculine shape of orbital rims. The direct result of orbital rims shape is eye expression, which is either masculine or feminine or androgynous (androgynous is often the case after FFS). And eye expression in the end is what makes you being read as a man or a woman.

OMG that is so true and thank you for posting that. Makes sense of the results of my own FFS now. Post-op the one thing that stood out was my eyes changing from male to female thanks to the reshaping of the orbital rims. Even though my lower face still screams male this is enough to get me gendered female most of the time. So important therefore to pick a surgeon who can do this part of the procedure well if you are considering forehead work.

Quote from: Auroramarianna on March 11, 2015, 01:47:44 PM
Do you think FFS will be essential for me to pass and blend in?

No, but it sounds like you want more than just to blend in.  :)

Hugs, Pandora
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Auroramarianna

I just want to look like a normal girl, fit in, maybe be prettyish but not really stunning or anything or a model.
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Pandora

Quote from: Auroramarianna on March 11, 2015, 02:24:46 PM
I just want to look like a normal girl, fit in, maybe be prettyish but not really stunning or anything or a model.

Lol! From your pictures you're already prettyish! Things will only get better after a year or so on HRT, growing out your hair and laser hair removal. Will be surprised if you can't pass then. If you still don't pass then forehead work (with orbital rim reshaping) and rhinoplasty with a good FFS surgeon will get you there for sure and make you "exceptionally pretty".

Hugs, Pandora
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michelle82

Omg aurora i think we are twins i need to send you some my pics we totally look alike and i hate my nose too lol
Hair Removal - 10/1/14
HRT - 3/18/15
Full Time - 7/1/15
Name Change: 8/4/15
FFS - 1/14/16



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Auroramarianna

Quote from: michelle82 on March 11, 2015, 03:23:36 PM
Omg aurora i think we are twins i need to send you some my pics we totally look alike and i hate my nose too lol

OMG!!!! Pm now!!!
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Jaz650



You must be true to yourself, in order to be true to God! - Jaz
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