Hi,
There was a older tread about triathlon clothing. But hopefully looking for a little more info. First off I love working out, running, and cycling. I am early into my transition. Still working on all details. But i plan to start hrt in August. I am signed up to do Ironman in Nov. I really want to race in IM. But alittle nervous to how my body will be affected by HRT. Does anyone have any experience with working out and HRT. (Endurance type sports marathon) Just trying to better prepare myself for whats going to happen. Thanks for any advice.
Ashley

I am FAAB so obviously have no experience on HRT for E. . . since no one else has responded yet, from what I've read here over the years from the girls is that some of your muscle mass might decrease. I believe how quickly you feel and see changes depends on your dosage, genetics, and other factors.

However, if you're only starting HRT in August and doing an Ironman in November, I doubt that it'll have that huge of an effect on your performance, physically speaking, especially if you're consistently working out while on HRT (which I know you'll be doing). You might actually perform better, since many people say they feel a mental ease once they get on HRT -- endurance sports (imo) are 90% mental and 10% physical.

While I know men and women swim, cycle, and run together in IM, winners are broken up between M and F. So, if you're competing as a woman in IM, yeah... you'll still likely be doing much better that many cis-women performing at your same level of fitness/training due to all your years of having T in your body which gives you better muscle strength and endurance than FAABs; if you're competing against the other men, you might see some affects on your performance with cis-males of similar fitness levels and training.

Anyways, I hope you have a great time, let us know your results in November!! I would love to do an Ironman one day myself, except I suck too much at swimming. 

Thanks for responding. I was kinda of thinking the same thing, but wanted someone else opinion. I will be competing in the mens division. It will take two to three years to switch divisions. 2 years hrt and GRS. I will give updates when it gets close.  Thanks. Ashley 

Being on HRT from August to November is enough time for your cardio and strength to be less.  Not drastically less, but noticeable.  I don't know if there is anything specific you can do.  Certainly good technique helps, but that is always true.  Just don't expect to set your fastest times.

I'd guess that HRT and especially anti-androgens are going to have a fair impact in even a short time, though I'm hardly an athlete. I've noticed a big difference when I've been on and off estrogen (I wasn't on spiro at the time) in the past and do rowing machine exercise. Particularly when I stopped and T rises again, there's an incredible boost in power and stamina. I remember being quite surprised at the time, suddenly realizing the difference it made. I assume you've already goggled and found many other athletes who've done it.

If you've not seen it though, you might like this movie, about the Thai Kickboxer Nong Thoom who transitioned while fighting.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beautiful_Boxer
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nong_Thoom

While muscle size will decrease over time I'm not convinced that cardiovascular capacity will necessarily decrease also, assuming appropriate training. 

The primary difference between male and female cardiovascular upper limits is heart size.  Will HRT make your heart smaller?  I'm not sure but I doubt it.


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Thanks for the responses and information. its a good strating point.
Ashley

I'm a marathoner so I'll be finding the real answer in the coming months.  If my cardiovascular capacity just diminishes to Paula Radcliffe's level I'll be content with it LOL.


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From personal experience as a cyclist, and on E x 2 yrs, I can attest to a *slight* decrease in overall performance (maybe alittle bit of muscle, probably alot of mental).  In terms of cardiovascular/aerobic performance, I don't see much change; but in terms of peak power/anaerobic performance (like sprints), I've seen abit of a decrease in power output (quantified with a PM).  Steady-state performances (i.e. Time Trials) haven't really been impacted; performances in crit-racing, however, have.  I think I noticed the shift about 1.5 year into HRT, coinciding with my hormone levels normalizing.  Although road cycling is very different from Tri (esp IM Tri), I still do alot of long distance tempo work, and again - essentially steady-state efforts aren't impacted noticeably; shorter routes with power bursts and sprints...those are affected. 

One other thing I'll mention - since being on E, my general demeanor has become abit more calm and placid...I've lost abit of that aggressive edge I used to have.  This (I think more than the slight decreases in muscle and power output) has affected my racing.  Before E, if I saw a gap forming, I would immediately jump for it and/or try to bridge...now, sometimes I'll predict/see a gap forming and think "meh, I can't cover it."  The mental game has changed since starting E...I'm finding it abit more challenging to fully keep my head in the game (compared to previously).  Now granted, you don't worry about bridging gaps and covering attacks in the bike portion of non-draft Tri, but I think it is worth mentioning (but then again, maybe you'll have to cover attacks in the marathon portion).

Quote from: summer710 on March 24, 2015, 12:16:50 AM
From personal experience as a cyclist, and on E x 2 yrs, I can attest to a *slight* decrease in overall performance (maybe alittle bit of muscle, probably alot of mental).  In terms of cardiovascular/aerobic performance, I don't see much change; but in terms of peak power/anaerobic performance (like sprints), I've seen abit of a decrease in power output (quantified with a PM).  Steady-state performances (i.e. Time Trials) haven't really been impacted; performances in crit-racing, however, have.  I think I noticed the shift about 1.5 year into HRT, coinciding with my hormone levels normalizing.  Although road cycling is very different from Tri (esp IM Tri), I still do alot of long distance tempo work, and again - essentially steady-state efforts aren't impacted noticeably; shorter routes with power bursts and sprints...those are affected. 

That's interesting, how long do you need to be on E to compete in the female division?

It's just interesting seeing these debates on transwoman playing in the women's divisions in sports re: unfair competition for the FTM athlete. Most pro-trans competitors commentators (which I doubt are all athletes) often state that FTM are hugely affected within a few months to 1-year after taking T.

Last time I looked into it - two years and a ton of red tape and a bit depending on your age/when you started (i.e. pre-puberty, puberty, post-puberty); I do know that recently (2015), the ECCC in Collegiate Cycling has a formal policy revolving around documentation of gender dysphoria...didn't see anything specifically on HRT.   At least some of it depends on who you're competing under, and if these are sanctioned events.  I've seen some flyers for back-alley races, targeting women and transgender (MTF) cyclists...but this was alley-cat racing, not in any way sanctioned by a major governing body.  My advice is to get your paperwork ready and have it with you at all times.  A few years ago at the US Cycling-sanctioned TX State Time Trials, random drug testing was enforced, so it's not just for the Tour de France or Ironman Hawaii.  An estrogen level outside of the assigned competition gender could trigger an investigation, since it has been known that - on occasion - a cis-male athlete has tried to use estrogen to mask the real anabolic performance enhancing drugs. 

For the FTM athlete, I can see the argument that testosterone will be an unfair advantage for the FTM athlete if he competes in the woman's division...for the same reason that anabolic steroids are prohibited for all gender classes, in just about every competitive sports.  Not only will the T aid in muscle building/strength conditioning, but esp. for multi-event sports (like a multi-stage cycling event), T is also thought to help with recovery from injury and fatigue.  As an example, if two athletes are at 100% of their fitness on Day 1, (hypothetically) on Day 5, one athlete (not on exogenous T) might be at 85% of their fitness, while the other athlete (on exogenous T) will be at a slightly higher residual fitness level, because of the exogenous T, allowing him to perform just abit better than his competition.  This advantage shouldn't only be viewed as an in-competition advantage, but one can also see the advantage if exogenous T is used in the months of training leading up to a targeted event...the training will be more intense while the recovery will be greater.  That is why there is the ban on T for sports...and unfortunately, even at levels therapeutic for the FTM, that T level will still be higher than cis-females (if he competes in the female divisions), and even with a TUE (therapeutic exemption) and competing with the men, anyone taking exogenous T will be scrutinized and potentially banned.  I don't know the whole story, but I think the use of T was one reason for Balian Buschbaum to retire from athletics, so he could pursue his FTM transition (or maybe he simply wanted to move on...not sure, but he definitely would not have been allowed to use T to medically transition while competing under the Olympic banner).

Quote from: DriftingCrow on March 25, 2015, 07:42:38 PM
That's interesting, how long do you need to be on E to compete in the female division?

It's just interesting seeing these debates on transwoman playing in the women's divisions in sports re: unfair competition for the FTM athlete. Most pro-trans competitors commentators (which I doubt are all athletes) often state that FTM are hugely affected within a few months to 1-year after taking T.

Sorry, I meant MTF not FTM, and E instead of T, lol. Mistype.

Yes, I understand why FTMs on T shouldn't compete with the women's division because the T is an unfair advantage.

I meant to say how many pro-trans commentators state that within a relatively short period of time, trans women's bodies change enough to compete with cis-women in sports. Your experiences are opposite to that (along with some stories I've read from other places) -- it seems like you'd still have an advantage over cis-women if you competed in the female division since your changes are only "slight". 

Thanks for the replies. That is good info.


Ashley

Quote from: Ashley1212 on March 28, 2015, 04:06:38 PM
Thanks for the replies. That is good info.


Ashley

Not sure you will see this, but I am interested to see how you did, and what effect HRT had on your training.

My anecdotal experience this year tells me that my aerobic capacity was rapidly affected negatively, within a few months.  How much more that will change remains to be seen.


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Quote from: Deborah on January 07, 2016, 09:02:30 PM
My anecdotal experience this year tells me that my aerobic capacity was rapidly affected negatively, within a few months.  How much more that will change remains to be seen.


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If you don't my asking what times were you getting before and after for running?

A couple of years ago when I was about 53 I ran a 5:57 mile, 20:03 5k, 1:35 HM, and 3:32 Marathon.  So I was fairly good at the local level.  I don't have any new times to directly compare because I took some time off and was retraining this year.  However, at the same level of training at equal effort levels using a HRM my pace is significantly slower by up to a minute at training paces.  If I want to compare my old times I'd  have to get really serious for about a year's training and I am lacking that much motivation right now, especially when improvements seem to come much slower.

One thing though last time I trained it took me about 5 months to get back under a 6 min mile.  This time around a 6 min mile seems unattainable.  Maybe with a lot more training but I'm not sure.


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I posted on this before. I have completed in the Iron man World Championships 2 times for Hong Kong. Also competed individually in the Beijing Ironman and Strongman in Japan, plus over 30 races in the Olympic distance, and a dozen Marathon. Being as blunt as possible ...HRT will affect you and I'm sure it varies from person to person. Personally, I would not do it. I competed in a cross country run of 10k some 4 months into HRT. I noticed as I was training that I had hot flashes and that my energy level was way down. So in the event I took a fall and had to have a few stitches above the eyebrow and never felt that I had the energy, I completed it but felt terrible.

We need time for our  body to adjust to the new hormones and today almost three years later I now can compete again in endurance events and actually do just as well. Just my personal view .

So, there is still hope.  That's good news. :-)


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Well I have a long ways to go on this journey, but this is all good news to me.