Two cents and then I am gone. Berleigh, it is NOT you. It is the way people gender other people. It is done in something less than 5 seconds and it lasts a lifetime.

Your old friends probably are able to see changes, quite well. Their psychological make-ups, all of our human make-ups, decide gender quickly and then use that gender almost exclusively afterwards. Your old friends are unable to break out of the gendering they have done for years and years. Few people are able to break that.

OTH, if you were to be among new friends for awhile who have gendered you female and then told one of them say after a year that you had once been designated male, that person would 99% likely always refer to you with female pronouns, etc. They also would not be able to break the patterning.

It's just the way the mind/brain works, somewhere deep in the hypothalamus the pattern is not subject to change. Once it's formed it remains firm. 

The advice about dropping old friends who cannot find a new way of referring to you is probably the best you can get. Or you can maintain the old relationships and have this continue to drive you mad.

Hi,
    And another 2 cents, if you don't mind. I had this exact same thing last year with
a friend. Now we were friends for over 30 years, and it was a shock to him and his wife. I was VERY understanding with them and did not push it, so they would get used to jennifer. I changed my name back in 1994. Fast forward 2006...They were much better but still kept sliping up with him name. I was one of two people that was to help out at a big social function for their kid. A week before still the he stuff, and the other person that was to help was doing it. Many people comming never met me in my past life. I stated that if this did not stop NOW, I would be a no show and stick it to the other person to have to do all the work. Well that got horrified looks. Later on guess what...yup he etc. Well I went off the deep end, you want to call me him...I'll give you him. I called them every dirty word I could think of. I did not show up for the event, and did not talk to them for 9 months. I ran into them awhile back and we are talking again.

It comes to a point where you must show them how serious YOU really are. I was told you will regret having SRS/GRS. Well it's 10 years...I have no regret.

                                              Jennifer

P.S. If you see any spelling mistakes...keep it to yourself

Hi Jenifer, like wise if I make any spelling mistakes, I would be lost without my spell check. Also wanted to say, way to go on how you handled the Mr. stuff. You sound like my mate Wing Walker if someone uses the wrong pronoun on her. 

Cindy

Quote from: cindybc on November 10, 2007, 07:09:13 PM
Hi Kate, Louise, Berleigh.

Wow, this a good example of friends coming together to help one another.
First Kate, on the job and the people around town have never given me a problem with the use of the proper pronoun, except for maybe a few slips in the beginning whom I promptly corrected. Maybe I was lucky but I never had any problems that way.

Cindy   

Thanks everyone for your hrelpful comments..

Cindy, If I correct the people I know they become agressive and abusive which makes the relationship worse. Of friends who have known me at least 15 years they won't ever except my transition. After 7 years of being Kimberley they have just about got to the point of calling me Kim but they still refer to me as 'He' or 'Him'....

My mother is the worst and she likes to call me by my old previous 'male' name in public which confuses other people who asssume I am female. I have had enough of it all and I know it happens with families and friends who refuse to except a family member in transition.

I have also lost a lot of friends as well. They slowly fade away, never call you and you never see them again......I have one male friend who still keeps in touch....and also old female friends dissapear as well..

I think if you transition you are putting yourself in a position of isolating yourself from anything related with your past..

Hi Berliegh
Yes you do. in my case the people in the town I lived in only knew me for a couple of years as my old self. The last 7 years I was there I was Cindy and after a short period of time all addressed me by the right name. I think after three years they didn't even remember me as the other, which was good. Now it might be that different communities will react differently because I traveled over half of US and Canada and each community I went though had a distinct different personality, as though each Sate and Province was like a different little country of their own.

As for relatives, they all turned their backs on me except for one niece, bless her soul, good kid, proud of her to, she has an executive position in Toronto. My youngest daughter whom I am proud of as well, she is a child psychologist. Anyway this all made it easy for me to move to BC, We moved  here because BC health Insurance covers the surgery and Wing Walker is going up for surgery sometimes in June I think it was.

I think I am also coming to like Vancouver. I am not getting any younger and I want to enjoy what's left of my life, to the fullest of my ability. I have my bipolar disorder well under control with the minimum of meds. I am happy, I sometime feel that with my good sense of humor I feel like I could glow in the dark. I know it makes Wing Walkers day, when I'm in a good mood I feel like a kid again that Wing Walker calls that the ID. 62 year old kid huh!

Cindy

Quote from: Nichole W. on November 11, 2007, 12:20:58 AM
Two cents and then I am gone. Berleigh, it is NOT you. It is the way people gender other people. It is done in something less than 5 seconds and it lasts a lifetime.

Your old friends probably are able to see changes, quite well. Their psychological make-ups, all of our human make-ups, decide gender quickly and then use that gender almost exclusively afterwards. Your old friends are unable to break out of the gendering they have done for years and years. Few people are able to break that.

OTH, if you were to be among new friends for awhile who have gendered you female and then told one of them say after a year that you had once been designated male, that person would 99% likely always refer to you with female pronouns, etc. They also would not be able to break the patterning.

It's just the way the mind/brain works, somewhere deep in the hypothalamus the pattern is not subject to change. Once it's formed it remains firm. 

The advice about dropping old friends who cannot find a new way of referring to you is probably the best you can get. Or you can maintain the old relationships and have this continue to drive you mad.

Very good points Nichole and I understand where you are coming from. Many old friends have ditched me anyway and you re right. Make new friends and later tell the new friends you are TS and they will still call you by the name thery first saw you as and react towards you still as female. This actually happened to me......A year or so ago I had some hair extensions done and told the young girl who did them that I was TS. She thought I was joking and said 'no way' and never believed me...

Kim,

What a great response! See, sweetie, you need only remind yourself of your own experiences and you already have the knowledge there with you!!

Now, enough of that "I don't look like..." stuff. You are a very attractive woman and needn't ever apologize for that or doubt it. Although i also understand all too well that what we see in the mirror we see very differently than folks who have not lived their lives inside our bodies see us.

Every day can be an adventure. *smile*

Hi Nichole W.

I think we probably all do that to an extent. Like for example a thermionic valve is now an electron tube but after calling this gizmo a thermionic valve for a number of years because that is the name we get use to and feel comfortable with it  and out of habit we continue to call this little piece of marvel of electronics a thermionic valve.

Cindy

Hi,
    "my mom calls me him in public". Berliegh, I hear and can feel your pain. My dad will slip up in public, eventho I have warned him many times. He said..well people know. Yes they do, because you just told them . Many people do know about me and many don't. I told him that I will now tell people that you have alzhimers as a way of covering up the blunder. He didn't like that !.
My belief is that it is better to have no friends that a dozen that keep insulting me, and mentally drag me down. It's like picking through a basket of apples keep the good ones, and toss out the bad.

Cindy...I also seen TED...thermonic emission device as a new name. Ahh the warm friendly glow of a tube/valve. Makes ya feel good all over .

                                              Jennifer

And as allways..the sPeLing errors are the computers fault......

Hi Jennifer
Thank you at least it got the meaning out there. But I am afraid it is my mate Wing Walker that has the radio tubes for brains.  Me I am just the whatsisit girl. I ask lots of questions and collect curios that I call whatsisits.

Cindy

Vacuum Tube Memory

Quote from: Jennifer01 on November 11, 2007, 07:26:07 PM
My belief is that it is better to have no friends that a dozen that keep insulting me, and mentally drag me down. It's like picking through a basket of apples keep the good ones, and toss out the bad.

True, although I think we have to cut friends and family and coworkers a break sometimes too. Accidental slips do happen, and are often just the product of years of mental inertia more than attempts to be insulting. It takes time to create new habits. Besides, I don't think the gender-meaning behind pronouns is nearly as apparent and obvious to other people as it is to us. Much of the time, when someone "slips" and calls us HE, it's just a word to them... not gendered... it's just a word they're used to applying to us from years of habit.

On the other hand, there ARE people who intentionally make a point of not accepting us. THOSE people are a problem. As are friends who just don't CARE that they're hurting us, and make zero effort to change or understand how it makes us feel.

Still though, even when people are unaccepting, it doesn't necessarily mean they should be dumped. People can come around in time. As my therapist says, "persistence is the best form of insistence." Heck, it's taken almost a year, but my mother FINALLY started calling me Kate a few weeks ago. I didn't demand it exactly, I just consistently mentioned it's who I am now.

I'm sure my calling her "Fred" whenever she called me by my male name had nothing to do with it either...

~Kate~

Jeee just simply move to another province, State , or country even.

Yep every time something went wrong I use to move to another state or province, I never done anything in small steps, like getting the surgery while I was on the road, like I want a hamburger to go with the fries please? But I do think I have made the right decision to move here to Vancouver. I was quite fine in Midland but here I know nobody and nobody knows me and they call me by the right pronouns. If something goes wrong I will just simply move somewhere else, like maybe the Ozarks. Lots of swamps to bury bodies in.  But I think the folks here in Vancouver are quite nice.

Cindy

Berleigh, in my experience *B*O*O*B*S* are the single most important factor in being read as female. My life can be divided into two phases: 1) Pre-boobs--I got called "sir." 2) With boobs--I get called "ma'am." If I were in your situation, I would make boobs my "top" priority.

Face-wise, most of us wish we could be as lucky as you. You look like Joni Mitchell.

Interesting thought, Hypatia. I was listening to her album (Joni's, not Beleigh's) Both Sides Now the other night and contemplating the album cover and it struck me that the drawing, and the pic is was made from kinda put me in mind of someone who might well be considered TS by some people just passing her on the street. http://jonimitchell.com/musician/lyrics.cfm 

Then again, I find it harder and harder to tell the differences between TS and GG after women reach thirty-five or so anyway, provided someone is either lucky genetically or has had a good FFS. *shrug* But, that's just me. 

Quote from: Hypatia on November 12, 2007, 04:23:46 PM
Berleigh, in my experience *B*O*O*B*S* are the single most important factor in being read as female. My life can be divided into two phases: 1) Pre-boobs--I got called "sir." 2) With boobs--I get called "ma'am." If I were in your situation, I would make boobs my "top" priority.

Face-wise, most of us wish we could be as lucky as you. You look like Joni Mitchell.

That's the second person who's said I looked liked Joni Mitchell.....I can't see it myself. I haven't got a lot of boobs but thankfully I don't seem to get read.



Posted on: November 12, 2007, 06:49:25 PM

---

Quote from: Nichole W. on November 12, 2007, 05:27:38 PM
Interesting thought, Hypatia. I was listening to her album (Joni's, not Beleigh's) Both Sides Now the other night and contemplating the album cover and it struck me that the drawing, and the pic is was made from kinda put me in mind of someone who might well be considered TS by some people just passing her on the street. http://jonimitchell.com/musician/lyrics.cfm 

Then again, I find it harder and harder to tell the differences between TS and GG after women reach thirty-five or so anyway, provided someone is either lucky genetically or has had a good FFS. *shrug* But, that's just me. 

I have made an album and write songs too.......I think Joni's brow looks female which is a good tell tale sign....I also have her album 'Both sides now' which is a great album..

By the way if that's your pic Nicole you look stunning and very GG..

Hi,
    Cindy, that picture is heart warming .

Kate, I agree that we must give people time to get used to the new person. I have lived as jennifer for 13 yrs and last year I ran out of understanding. When you go to work, store etc as she and hear him from close people it's like a stake in the heart. The pain was too much to endure any longer, and I had to draw the line with them.

Years ago when I would get the him stuff I once said loudly to to the guy...Do you think i'm so ugly that I should have one of those sex change operations to be a guy !. Other customers in line were staring at him....

I just thought of one to pull on the friend that won't call you she. In public when they call you him, look right at him and say now you went and told them. I thought we were keeping our gay relationship under cover by me posing as a woman !.

Hoo ya, I wish I would have thought of this years ago to pull on a friend  >

                                              Jennifer

Quote from: Hypatia on November 12, 2007, 04:23:46 PM
Berleigh, in my experience *B*O*O*B*S* are the single most important factor in being read as female. My life can be divided into two phases: 1) Pre-boobs--I got called "sir." 2) With boobs--I get called "ma'am." If I were in your situation, I would make boobs my "top" priority.

Face-wise, most of us wish we could be as lucky as you. You look like Joni Mitchell.

LOL I didn't get sir before boobs but I sure get a lot more guys hitting on me.



I never noticed it before but Joni Mitchell doesn't have the most feminine facial features.

But she is good looking for her age, Joni Mitchell would be around about in her sixties now?
As for boobs I'm into a 36 B now and I'm a tiny person 5' 3" tall so they are within proportion. I been on HRT for seven years going on 8 and I still get little spurts of growth there.

This pic was taken last winter. I guess the estrogen works pretty well with old bats like me to.



Cindy

A more recent pic?

The other thingy that everyone should be aware of is that youth can be particularly helpful in defining looks.

Aging well is helpful. The pic that Nicole posted of Joni Mitchell does, indeed, show her current age. Since she started writing and singing songs in the early 60s without googling her to see my guess is that she is in her mid-sixties right now.

Female facial configurations change, lose soft tissue as do we all, as women age. The defining bone-structure becomes more and more visible and she, and all the rest of us, are going to merge toward looking more like males as we age. And vice versa, males lose soft tissue as well and become less definable as males and more like babies, or women. It is a natural occurrence and not a lot anyone can do about it.

Aging women and aging men do not look the way most of us in the west define as young and sexy after they reach their sixties.

Kim, drop me a pm, please. The avatar is Sharon Stone, not me.

Nichole