I initially thought that someone might have asked this before, but I couldn't find anything.

So as I've mentioned in some of my earlier posts, one reason I can't start HRT right now is that my wife and I plan to have a child soon, maybe in the next 1-2 years. We would like to go the traditional route and avoid IVF etc if possible. But after that, I have no reason to avoid starting HRT, so I would like to start as soon as possible. My wife is not completely OK with it right now, but she has become more accepting in the last 3 months, so I hope that she will eventually be OK with it.

I have found examples of people transitioning after having kids, as well as those who were able to conceive naturally even after transitioning. But I couldn't find any other example of someone 'timing' their transition like this. Instead, I have read that finding out that the wife is pregnant or having an infant to take care of has delayed one's decision to transition. On one hand, I understand that, as becoming a parent is emotionally demanding on its own and having it overlap with transition and possible uncertainty about social acceptance may just make it more complex. On the other hand, it seems to make perfect sense that if a transitioning partner goes full-time before a child is born, then the child never has to deal with any ambiguity regarding this.

What do you'll think? Are there any red flags here that I should be aware of, medically or otherwise? If yes, then I won't even bother looking for an endo now or trying to convince my wife or anything, but will simply delay it by a few more years.

Phew tough one, agreed transitioning by the time the baby is born certainly clears that problem, however after child birth hormones do bizarre things... Post natal depression is not uncommon, by transitioning during pregnancy may on the face of it be less of an issue to your partner now, but through pregnancy and after birth may be a massive difference... Tread warily I would say...

I don't know your partner at all, only you can judge her real position... But just hinting that you may want to discuss further with her

L Katy 

Thanks Katy.

I will obviously continue to discuss this with her, but I'm just looking for medical reasons or anything else that neither of us may be aware of and may want to consider in this decision, besides just our feelings about it.

If you do HRT while she's pregnant, you are both going to be very hormonal and moody. Not even joking. I don't know what it's like on the MTF side of things, but for the guys, starting testosterone turns some people into emotional teenagers again. Is it similar the other way around?

I have been pregnant though, and mother nature can throw so many curve balls that you aren't expecting. What if she gets gestational diabetes, or has some other complication (god forbid, but most are easy to treat with modern technology)? Plus, there are all these worries that the doctors/nurses/experts throw at pregnant ladies, urging you to call your doctor if you feel this or that sensation, but also giving you conflicting advice on what's bad and what is normal. I don't know your wife's normal temperament, but these things can be hard for many pregnant women to deal with, and she might need support from someone who is able to tolerate her moods. And if she does become like that, she won't really be in a position to support you if you need it, either.

After the baby is delivered, things don't go back to normal right away. It will take her body time to heal and readjust itself to no longer having to support another human. If she breastfeeds, that will bring about another set of bodily changes for her. I'm sure you could transition during this time just as well as any other time, it's just that this seems to be a phase of baby-making that many people forget to consider, so I wanted to bring it up. If the pregnancy goes perfectly well and her moods/personality remain relatively the same as normal, then in comparison she will probably be at her weakest in the few days after giving birth.

I personally ended up with postpartum depression, and I did need somebody more stable than me who I could lean on every once in awhile during my treatment. (It was WEIRD, by the way. I was not actually upset, I would just randomly start crying, or have foreign, disturbing thoughts come to my head out of nowhere.)

I personally have this gung-ho outlook on transitioning, go for it full-throttle no matter what anybody else says, but in this case I strongly caution you to only do this if you are both completely willing to deal with the emotional pressure together. It's not even just about the hormones; you will be adding two very dramatic changes to your lives at the same time! On the good side, at least they will be two wonderful changes.

I think it's also worth discussing with her if she would like the time she's pregnant and healing/nursing to be a special time where the focus is the new baby? Some people are sentimental about that. If she would like that, and you end up agreeing to it, I hope she will then extend to you the same courtesy of having special you-time while you initiate HRT.

Hi actually proceeding with HRT when she is pregnant isn't such a bad idea especially if you want to consider both breastfeeding the baby as with the right combination of HRT you can induce lactation  such that you can both share in the breast feeding process with your new baby. Thats also a great way fr you both to bond with the new baby. Obviously you will not experience childbirth, but the increase in your breast lobule and milk ducts in the lead up to the birth and both of our carrying a full load of breast milk can be a very rewarding experience for the two of you and help to jointly address the transition but with a focus on mutual and cared support during this important time for you both
Judith Lynn

Quote from: judithlynn on March 27, 2015, 01:54:04 AM
Hi actually proceeding with HRT when she is pregnant isn't such a bad idea especially if you want to consider both breastfeeding the baby as with the right combination of HRT you can induce lactation  such that you can both share in the breast feeding process with your new baby. Thats also a great way fr you both to bond with the new baby. Obviously you will not experience childbirth, but the increase in your breast lobule and milk ducts in the lead up to the birth and both of our carrying a full load of breast milk can be a very rewarding experience for the two of you and help to jointly address the transition but with a focus on mutual and cared support during this important time for you both
Judith Lynn

I've never heard of inducing lactation in trans women. Is it sanctioned by the medical community? Are there any side effects from the hormones necessary to do that?

Quote from: cindy16 on March 26, 2015, 08:29:29 AM
transitioning (starting HRT) while wife is pregnant?

A double whammy. Seriously.

Pregnant women tend to be very emotional, not to mention their body change.

Even if your wife completely accepts and consents to your willingness to transition during her pregnancy, I still would not think it is desirable.

barbie~~

Thanks everyone for the replies. There is surely a lot to think about here.

@ Amy: Yes, induced lactation is possible, not sure if it is 'officially' sanctioned, but well Dr McGinn seems to have done it (see the last page of http://www.oprah.com/oprahshow/Real-Life-Modern-Family). There are quite a few other instances on this site and elsewhere too.

@ Judith: Sharing in the breastfeeding process will obviously be great, but I am not looking that far ahead. First, it's about getting my wife on board for any transition at all, then it is about deciding whether or not to go ahead with HRT at that time, then the whole uncertainty about the extent and speed of physical changes, and lastly, even with everything going fine, induced lactation may or may not work.
So even without that, I just felt that starting HRT at that time may be a good idea if I don't want to delay it by too many years. But I now see that this needs to be thought through a lot more.

Here's the issue, Cindy.

The first few months of a baby's life takes an extraordinary amount of time and energy. Take that into account.

Perspective #1: So does transition, so you might not want to be doing those things at the same time.
Perspective #2: If you transition, you will not be distracted by the energy needed to continue living as a man when you know who you really are.

Which perspective is right for you? Only you know.

Before HRT, I was pretty indifferent to babies, and hearing a baby cry actually annoyed me a little.  Back then, my sister had her first, and although I was really happy, it was more like I was happy because she was happy.

Now I feel really maternal.  My sister just had her second, and a friend just had her first, and when we chat or spend time together I become really emotional and protective.  My eyes water with happiness seeing a baby's smile, and I feel so much more connected and really value bonding.  I'm envious and sad too now though, that I'll never be able to carry a child of my own.

So I would actually think HRT would actually help, although anyone can see that having a baby changes new dads too.  I think waiting until after the baby comes is a really really good idea.   The first 2 months of HRT were soo rough; crying for no reason at all, being sad, then happy, etc.   Pregnancy is already a hugely turbulent time I would think your family is in for a harder struggle if you're both hormonally upset.

Suzi said it best I think.

Thanks Suzi and Raven.

Suzi, well for me it is clearly perspective # 2. Since I've finally accepted myself a few months back, I've found that either completely immersing myself in work or regularly visiting this site is keeping me sane. Else if I'm by myself and with even a little vacant mind space, I just feel like I am going nuts.

Raven, I already love playing with babies. I've never really used the word 'maternal' for myself, but I've always been better at handling babies than most people I know.

Until your wife is completely OK and FULLY supportive with your transition, you two shouldn't even think about a child. Maybe it's just me, and there are many things I don't understand...

I would say transition first... and only after happily living few years as a lesbian couple start thinking about the baby. You can easily save cells, I had mine frozen for free, I only have to remember to renew the contract every 5 years...

Cindy 16 is your wife currently pregnant?

I agree with mmmmm, save sperm and have a baby after you transition fully and your wife fully accepts you.

Thank you all.

mac1: No she is not.

mmmmm and Cynthia: I understand your point, but it may not work in my case for several reasons.
Firstly, having a child is really important to both my wife and me and is now in our short-term future after many years of being together and being vaguely certain that we would want one at some point. I know that problems could still occur (even without my trans issues) in which case we wouldn't be averse to medical help or adoption etc, but if there are no such problems then we would prefer the 'traditional' way. And if I have to choose between transitioning or having a kid, I would choose the latter.
Secondly, there is no recognition here of same-sex relationships, so I am not sure about our access to any medically assisted reproduction if I transition first and then we plan to have a child. Yes there could be medical professionals who might give two hoots about the law but then safety may be an issue. And I know of trans women here who have frozen their sperm before transitioning etc, but the laws around it all are still hazy. So the best bet is to have a child, have the wife on board and then transition, so that the 'law' or 'official recognition' matters only to recognize a certain 'status quo'. Which might be easier than seeking permission to have a biological child or adopt as a trans person.

Btw, I showed my wife this entire thread, and though she is sympathetic to what I am going through, she is still finding it difficult to wrap her head around at this moment. She also thought I shouldn't transition when she is pregnant, which I sort of agree with now, but when I asked her when would be appropriate then, she said maybe in a couple of decades. I just said I can't be sure if I'll be able to take it for that long, and after talking some more about it, we just decided we'll go one step at a time on this as we had decided before.

.... so you are willing to have a child with a person who loves you as your fake male self, but doesn't accept you as who you really are? (I write that like as you are truly transsexual, not just confused).

Obviously she doesn't want you to transition.. and who can blame her..

Anyway, good luck to both of you.

Thanks for the wishes.

Well, she does know what my true self is and loves me for that, but she has very real and valid concerns about what would happen to us if I were to reveal my true self to others around us. To be honest, I share those concerns too.
She has always made it clear that she never wanted some 'alpha male', and that my coming out to her hasn't made her think any less of me. In fact, she has no problems with me dressing however I want in private or asking her to treat me one way or the other, but she is having a hard time understanding why physical transition may be necessary for me to be at peace with myself. I don't blame her for that, given the cultural context we've both lived in all along.
And here again, I know that physical transition may be necessary for me, but I'm still not sure how urgent is it, e.g. could I live without transitioning for 2 more years? 5 more? 10 more? I know 1 year is fine, and 20 years is not, but where is the tipping point in between and what it could mean for our lives, careers, family etc is something I am still figuring out, so I am not surprised if she is unsure too.

I know a couple where the husband came out to the wife as trans while she was pregnant with #2. That was almost 4 years ago. Still together. She has been full time for well over 3 years now.

Quote from: cindy16 on March 29, 2015, 03:08:13 PM
Thanks for the wishes.

Well, she does know what my true self is and loves me for that, but she has very real and valid concerns about what would happen to us if I were to reveal my true self to others around us. To be honest, I share those concerns too.
She has always made it clear that she never wanted some 'alpha male', and that my coming out to her hasn't made her think any less of me. In fact, she has no problems with me dressing however I want in private or asking her to treat me one way or the other, but she is having a hard time understanding why physical transition may be necessary for me to be at peace with myself. I don't blame her for that, given the cultural context we've both lived in all along.
And here again, I know that physical transition may be necessary for me, but I'm still not sure how urgent is it, e.g. could I live without transitioning for 2 more years? 5 more? 10 more? I know 1 year is fine, and 20 years is not, but where is the tipping point in between and what it could mean for our lives, careers, family etc is something I am still figuring out, so I am not surprised if she is unsure too.

As you know, I have said before that I always felt that I should have been a girl.  I only dated 2 girls (and not seriously) before meeting my wife. We started dating at 18 and 16 and got married young (21 & 19) and have been married for 50 years this month.  We do most things together and I know that she would never consent to full transition.  I would enjoy being able to experience being a woman openly with her at least part time but that may never be possible. However, my life and relationship with her is the most important thing for me.  You must also balance your desire to be a woman and your relationship with your wife based on your own feelings and needs.

Thanks Joanne and mac1.

mac1, I agree with what you say about balancing everything that is important.
Joanne, I've seen the same message in some of your earlier posts too that gender is just one part of one's identity. Other things like relationships, career etc are also important. Hence my hesitation in rushing ahead with transition.
OTOH, it is also true that unlike something as fundamental as gender identity, all these other factors in life can be moulded / coaxed into fitting better with ourselves. That's what I am trying to do. Slowly but surely.

Regarding the original question, clearly there are huge risks but there is also some hope. We'll cross the bridge when we reach it.