Quote from: Eva on March 26, 2015, 11:04:01 PM
Yea I don't want to be loved because Im a ->-bleeped-<-, "transition" implies M to F, not M to T which means the goal for me anyway is to be loved and thought of as a woman Of course I haven't found a guy yet who wants anything more than to use me for sex so there's that The only way I could imagine that is if it was with another trans woman but even then I doubt she would want to be thought of as anything less than a woman either... Im not really attracted to other pre or non op trans women though... Id think a lesbian relationship between two post op trans women would be pretty rare.... Might be fun though

It's not as rare as you think. I'm in a committed relationship with another trans woman.

As for a lot of other posts in this thread... *sigh* I don't know why I'm even still reading here. So much of this is so alienating and has an undercurrent of the true trans mentality. Before I make my exit, I'd just like to point out to everyone that I'm a lesbian MTF in her twenties (to those of you who have convinced yourselves that this is an age thing. No, we're not rare. I'm not going to go into how misguided I think this assumption is because I'd quickly descend into a frothing rage), and sexual orientation has nothing to do with how feminine a person is. One thing I will absolutely not stand for is having my femininity called into question, thank you very much, FrancisAnn. I'll have you know that I am one of the girliest girls you'll ever meet, so is my partner, and what gender you love has nothing to do with being able to "fully enjoy your femininity."

Fo myself, I always found myself being attracted to women. However after I started transitioning I started to realize that what I thought was attraction was actually envy/jealousy towards them since they had something that i didn't/couldn't have at the time. After that revelation I've come to realize that I'm very likely Asexual/Demisexual. I've only ever truly been attracted to one person in my life so far and unfortunately it just couldn't work out for us.

Quote from: Dee Walker on March 27, 2015, 08:26:11 AM
FrancisAnn, I think it's mostly older trans people are more likely to be lesbians and we're more chatty, but please remember that our sergeant-major, our dear Cindy is as straight as an arrow,... except for her curves! I myself have no problem with men sexually, I just can't have a relationship with one.


p.s.: You have no idea how much I want to call you "Franny Annie"!

Franny Annie is OK with me. I've always loved to be with a man, desired by a man, cooking a nice dinner for a man, enjoying him in bed fully, listening to my voice mail from a man saying how much he loved to be with me & that he was so hard right now for me, bringing me flowers.......... Being a nice sexy attractive woman desired by men is great. 

Quote from: Annabolton on March 27, 2015, 07:12:29 AM
anyways I don't know why its always a competition about whos more woman in the trans community...im sure some would say im less woman cause im undecided on whether I will get or even want bottom surgery but I don't really care... im me and I feel I am a woman and as long as that's what me my partner and close friends see that's all that matters and it should be the same for lesbian trans women

Well I did try to word my comments to avoid outright making that accusation, and instead carefully pointed out that it could theoretically be seen in that way. For the record I wasn't aiming that at you. let me explain.

I suppose after 30 years postop I'm just a wee bit cynical because I've seen all these questions go around and around, and not just in the trans community either. I'm a poacher turned game-keeper in that I'm now training as a doctor and for many years worked informally with a previously well known psychiatrist.

So I'm perhaps rather more fully aware than you may be that there was a serious paper in the MEDICAL community, of which I am now a tiny insignificant part, which made just that accusation. From memory it was Blanchard and Zucker, and they were trying to posit the position that any bisexual or lesbian transwomen were in someway not genuine. Happily these are more enlightened times, but I just think its worth remmbering that these questions have in the past been twisted and used in medical evidence against us. That was my point.

cause they're gay? 

Quote from: FrancisAnn on March 27, 2015, 10:15:55 AM
Franny Annie is OK with me. I've always loved to be with a man, desired by a man, cooking a nice dinner for a man, enjoying him in bed fully, listening to my voice mail from a man saying how much he loved to be with me & that he was so hard right now for me, bringing me flowers.......... Being a nice sexy attractive woman desired by men is great.

god the things running through my mind right now...

I have always wanted to have one that plays with me. Not just sexually but chasing me around, playing with my hair, pulling pranks on me, etc. One of the BIG regrets I have about not transitioning sooner was not having a boyfriend in my 20s I could hang out with, maybe go clubbing or enjoying stuff and he could be my big teddy bear to hug up at night, AFTER he picks me up and throws me in bed and undresses me... oh my god I think I am melting... gotta go cool off...

I've been in denial about being trans my whole life until the age of 32. I'm 33 now. I can't comprehend why all women aren't lesbians. Guys aren't attractive. Their stereotypical behavior bothers me to know end (yes I know not all guys act that way, but I've known WAY to many). The thought of a guy's junk (mine or not) is super gross. I love girls. I can't see me going any other way. I have a certain curiosity about what it would be like to be with a guy post-op, but I'm so grossed out by everything that it would take to happen that I can't ever see me going through with it.

Ashley,

Four months HRT is nothing. You are just starting the journey.

Before starting HRT and during the 1st year maybe, I used to think similarly to you. Estrogen didn't really start to kick in my brains, and spiro wasn't nearly enough for completely stopping T's opposition to estrogen.

15 moths since I started HRT, I had orchi and t-shave, so technically I am post-op because I no longer produce testosterone like a guy (my free T tests render almost zero every time).

Right after orchi I had huge physical changes, in gaining weight and accumulating fat in more fem areas (although not even close to what I expected, but way different and more drastic than the very little I was changing pre-op).

From that moment on (well, I'd say from the 2nd month post-op and on) I totally viewed and felt things differently. I became asexual at first. The reason for that, I think, is because I was taking the minimum estrogen dose, oral, once daily. Not enough estrogen, so my sex drive was simply gone.

Then about the 2nd year after orchi I met my BF, and I really wasn't interested in men until then. But at that point I wasn't attracted physically to women any more. I saw them as competition and as rivals, or as lucky specimens  that I  wished I was naturally born as. And I still see them as such today. ZERO physical attraction, but TONS of envy and jealousy, mostly about their physical appearance, as an average.

Also, thanks to my BF, I started increasing my estrogen dose, and taking it sublingually, until I reached full dose. And I also added progesterone to the mix.

Bottom line, I have been post-op and on estradiol full-dose sublingual non-stop since July last year, even though I started HRT in July 2009.

All I am trying to say is that IMO, long-term estrogen completely unopposed by T, at maximum dosage, DOES CHANGE your brains in ways you never imagined it would. What you see now as disgusting and repulsive, and what you see as beautiful, nice and attractive sexually-wise may change some day. I didn't believe that when I read other MTFs mentioning that, when I was just starting HRT and still had my little "T machines". I thought they were just pulling everybody's leg, as you may think I am doing right now  right .

So let's wait at least a couple of years and see how your brains may change, in case you keep on FULL estrogen dose and you really do block T opposition solely by taking anti-androgens, if that's the case. I mean, if you go at the very least about one year with your body "full tank" of estrogen and 95-99% empty on T, verifying that with blood tests of course,  THEN you may be amazed at how different a person you may become at that point, believe me.

Cheers

Bibi B.

Quote from: awilliams1701 on March 27, 2015, 01:02:39 PM
I've been in denial about being trans my whole life until the age of 32. I'm 33 now. I can't comprehend why all women aren't lesbians. Guys aren't attractive. Their stereotypical behavior bothers me to know end (yes I know not all guys act that way, but I've known WAY to many). The thought of a guy's junk (mine or not) is super gross. I love girls. I can't see me going any other way. I have a certain curiosity about what it would be like to be with a guy post-op, but I'm so grossed out by everything that it would take to happen that I can't ever see me going through with it.

Since my body is female now I am attrated to men. But I am still married to my wife. Which is funny when we go out, she is also only attracted to me!

Lara

I know for sure you can find straight trans women you can talk with if you want to, in fact I am one.  There is an age gap though, but I am also completely sure that you can find many trans ladies your own age that are straight.  I guess that is my point maybe.  We can't all relate to each other on every level– age, gender, sexuality, general interests, even transition age differences can kind of make it hard to perfectly understand every single other trans person's struggle, or feel like they can understand yours– but we do share a big common experience that we can all kind of share in and come together on.  Sometimes that has to be enough.  Cis women can also be great to relate with on everything outside of those feelings of anxiety we may have over transtiton or being trans.

I think it is a regional thing.  There are a lot of trans women in my home state (Mississippi).  I also lead one of the state support groups.  9/10 of MTF trans in my area are hetero, attracted to men, and consider themselves hetero.

It honestly shocked me that there were more that are attracted to women online because I just never saw that around here.  It is almost viewed as taboo among the trans community around here.

Chefskenzie, to me that just means a lot of trans women are feeling excluded where you are. If I showed for a support meeting and I immediately saw that the community had a problem with my sexuality, I'd leave without disclosing. I could be wrong, and I hope I am, but I see sisters suffering without support.

No one's mentioned this yet, but long before anyone even suspected that DES and things like it could cause ->-bleeped-<-, it was known that it caused an increased incidence of homosexuality, both gay and lesbian. This tells me that the incidence of homosexuality among trans people is likely to be higher than the general population. Perhaps not high, but higher.

I haven't ruled out the possibility. However currently I can't even comprehend dating a guy.

Quote from: bibilinda on March 27, 2015, 02:09:58 PM
Ashley,

Four months HRT is nothing. You are just starting the journey.

Before starting HRT and during the 1st year maybe, I used to think similarly to you. Estrogen didn't really start to kick in my brains, and spiro wasn't nearly enough for completely stopping T's opposition to estrogen.

15 moths since I started HRT, I had orchi and t-shave, so technically I am post-op because I no longer produce testosterone like a guy (my free T tests render almost zero every time).

Right after orchi I had huge physical changes, in gaining weight and accumulating fat in more fem areas (although not even close to what I expected, but way different and more drastic than the very little I was changing pre-op).

From that moment on (well, I'd say from the 2nd month post-op and on) I totally viewed and felt things differently. I became asexual at first. The reason for that, I think, is because I was taking the minimum estrogen dose, oral, once daily. Not enough estrogen, so my sex drive was simply gone.

Then about the 2nd year after orchi I met my BF, and I really wasn't interested in men until then. But at that point I wasn't attracted physically to women any more. I saw them as competition and as rivals, or as lucky specimens  that I  wished I was naturally born as. And I still see them as such today. ZERO physical attraction, but TONS of envy and jealousy, mostly about their physical appearance, as an average.

Also, thanks to my BF, I started increasing my estrogen dose, and taking it sublingually, until I reached full dose. And I also added progesterone to the mix.

Bottom line, I have been post-op and on estradiol full-dose sublingual non-stop since July last year, even though I started HRT in July 2009.

All I am trying to say is that IMO, long-term estrogen completely unopposed by T, at maximum dosage, DOES CHANGE your brains in ways you never imagined it would. What you see now as disgusting and repulsive, and what you see as beautiful, nice and attractive sexually-wise may change some day. I didn't believe that when I read other MTFs mentioning that, when I was just starting HRT and still had my little "T machines". I thought they were just pulling everybody's leg, as you may think I am doing right now  right .

So let's wait at least a couple of years and see how your brains may change, in case you keep on FULL estrogen dose and you really do block T opposition solely by taking anti-androgens, if that's the case. I mean, if you go at the very least about one year with your body "full tank" of estrogen and 95-99% empty on T, verifying that with blood tests of course,  THEN you may be amazed at how different a person you may become at that point, believe me.

Cheers

Bibi B.

I've always been Bi, but after so many years of suffering abuse from males during my first five years or so of my new life some part of me simply made the political decision to no longer be attracted to men. 
Honest disclosure warning: When I was homeless back then and only managing to survive I was on the game, - not for long, but let me tell you it was long enough. Warning ends:

The one time I ever found myself attracted to a man post transition, was when I was working in disability employment.  I was waiting for one of the women clients on my caseload to arrive and when she did arrive her husband was with her.  He was a huge Samoan  guy, perfectly sculpted like a god and with the most beautiful gentle and caring nature.  Something very ancient and primeval clicked over inside me and it went like this; - I want your babies, give me your babies NOW!
Somehow I got through the appointment and managed to be completely professional though I did need a cup of tea and a bit of sit down afterwards to recover.  And that was the only time I've ever wanted a man to take me in his arms right there on the spot and have his way with me.

So I don't know (sigh)  Possibly sexual attraction is more about the individual than their gender and if the one you're with makes you happy that's all that counts.  Labels are for jam jars.

Actually lady smith you happen to make me think of a possible reason why.

First of this is triggering If taken out of context of what I intended.

Pheromones could be the factor which causes MTF to be more commonly attracted to females rather then males compared to the CIS population. Why do I say this well somewhere our brains would have been effected to be male at least the effects of T which would make sense if most of the CIS population are straight then the pretransitional MTF would be most likely attracted to females. That effect might have a way of sticking around with the variable age to when transition occurred and the variable point on the spectrum the person felt. The hard part if I do get this right some their sexuality does NOT change some it does and even in some ways they feel it has but really just became open to whatever due to transforming. In a way gay does NOT apply to a MTF during transition in a sense because there I assume would be a period of confusion or paradox to what they feel. Basically my generality does not cover the complexity of a highly evolving situation not can any explanation really.

Sorry this Is really just conjecture I cant even say from actual experience so I could be way off but it is a decent thought of how might be.

So, here's a good question to follow up with: generally, we all know it is the ones who identify as gay beforehand (are attracted to men) who transition at a younger age (like I did-I thought I was exclusively into guys, turns out I'm bisexual).  Why?

I'm not so sure. I think transitioning early is more an indication of personal awareness and the level of support one has.

I think sexuality can still be very fluid in our adolescence, even early adulthood.

So while I don't think that the time of transition is an indicator of sexuality, I do think that the timing can affect the way one's sexuality develops.

Quote from: androgynouspainter26 on March 28, 2015, 01:47:09 AM
So, here's a good question to follow up with: generally, we all know it is the ones who identify as gay beforehand (are attracted to men) who transition at a younger age (like I did-I thought I was exclusively into guys, turns out I'm bisexual).  Why?

I just assumed that not being gay meant you can't be trans. That's mostly what kept me from doing it, since I had very strong feelings of dysphoria as a teenager, but I never connected the dots between those feelings and being transgender. I just thought it wouldn't make sense that I wanted to be a girl if I wasn't attracted to boys. But I doubt that's all there is to it, because I also know some people strongly identify as the opposite gender before they even start puberty...

Like anything else having to do with sexuality, I think being transgender is a spectrum, and some of us are just farther into the spectrum than others. If you're very deep in the spectrum, it makes sense that you wouldn't be able to tolerate being your birth gender for very long, and would actively seek out alternatives. But if you were less far into it, repression may seem like the path of least resistance (at least for a while), or you may not even feel that strong a strong sense of dysphoria until you reach a certain age. Being gay is probably just something that tends to be more common with people who are deeper in the spectrum.

I guess I'm lucky in some ways. I never had to fight anything. I've always been female since early childhood & always attracted to men. I've never had any mental stress from being "trans" anything. I've always been a women just without some of the physical changes for my body such as a normal depth vagina. I'm older than most of your lucky girls however life is good for me I guess. If you are border line just let go & enjoy being a woman, there is no need to fight anything, a real man will make you feel great if you just relax & enjoy him.  Good luck GF's.

Well personally I've always been attracted to women. The only reason I've started transitioning now is because I'm financially stable. When I first came out when I was younger I was a women attracted to women, all HRT has done is made my body match my brain yet I'm still a women attracted to women. Trans or cis to me they are still women to me.