My doc prescribed me estrogen in pill form but Im concerned it might be Premarin.  It's a little green oval shaped pill with 887|2 on one side and a b on the other.  Anyone know if this is Premarin? If so I'm tossing them.  I don't want to take that crap. 

No, that's estradiol.  This is what you want.

What is premarin and why is it undesirable?

Quote from: Amy85 on March 26, 2015, 04:55:09 PM
What is premarin and why is it undesirable?

Apart from the animal welfare issues of it being made from PREgant MAres uRINe?

Quote from: kelly_aus on March 26, 2015, 04:56:57 PM
Apart from the animal welfare issues of it being made from PREgant MAres uRINe?

Just say "neigh"!  And stay away from those bovine ovaries as well.  You don't want to grow udders.

Although actually Wyeth stopped using any pregnant mares sometime in around 2000 and now makes it entirely synthetically (at least in europe). So from an animal welfare point of view its not now any different from any other estrogen.

Its a conjugated estrogen cocktail containing about five different estrogens which in many respects is closer to normal female endocrine status than taking a single unconjugated 17beta-estradiol.

In many respects its a rather mixed bag because in terms of feminisation those of us who took it in the late 1970's and early 1980's, when it was more or less the only show in town, got pretty good results. On the down side however it contains an equine estrogen called equilin which the human liver struggles to metabolise so it wasnt very kind to the body.

Nevertheless I took it for 20 years without much ill effect, so I think (animal welfare aside) one can get a bit over worried about all this.

That said Premarin pills came in three strengths 0.0625mg (red) 1.25mg (yellow) and 2.5mg (purple) - for obvious reasons I'm not going to tell anyone what the prescribed dosage was, but they were sugar coated and oval - so not easy to mistake... So I don't think what you have there is premarin.

The Premarin pills I used to take were yellow.  I had a lot of problems with Premarin, I was started on X a day and after a year I started to have really bad problems with my eyesight and it was like looking at everything through a muddy glass of water.  After getting an endo at the hospital to revise my meds I had worse problems (in a sense) because my dose was dropped far too low and my facial hair started to re-sprout and I started to get erections again.
Once that was sorted out things seemed fine for a while until the day came when I felt sick as a dog, had awful abdominal pain and was peeing black urine.  Off to the hospital I was sent and the problem was found to be that Premarin had given me gall stones as well as badly affecting my liver and kidneys.
I'm now on Climara patches which are great and as time has gone on my kidneys and liver have recovered somewhat and I'm a lot more well.  If I'd known what problems Premarin was going to cause me long term I would have flushed it down the toilet too.  Back then most doctors including most endos didn't know much at all about transpeople health issues and I was pretty much left to it until I had a problem which couldn't be ignored.


(Lady Smith. No dosages please! I am disappointed !)
Cindy

Quote from: Jill F on March 26, 2015, 04:51:44 PM
No, that's estradiol.  This is what you want.

Thank you.  Yes it states estradiol on the label.  I Just did a little googling and I think it is the generic equivalent of estrace which is 17 beta I think.  So now if estradiol is 17 beta what is Premarin?

I've already explained that. Its a cockatail of several estrogens - from memory 17b-estradiol, Estrone, Equlin and Equilenin.

Quote from: Rejennyrated on March 26, 2015, 05:47:14 PM
I've already explained that. Its a cockatail of several estrogens - from memory 17b-estradiol, Estrone, Equlin and Equilenin.

I'm a little confused.  Does estradiol consist only of 17 beta or the cocktail you mention?

Quote from: Amy1988 on March 26, 2015, 08:03:55 PM
I'm a little confused.  Does estradiol consist only of 17 beta or the cocktail you mention?

The blue pills are generic anhydrous (without water) estradiol. Those that you are getting seem to be the generics made by Teva pharmaceuticals which is what I take as well. Those only contain 17-β Estradiol plus I think sugar and coloring as well as the pill coating and other inert ingredients. 

Quote from: ImagineKate on March 27, 2015, 08:34:47 AM
The blue pills are generic anhydrous (without water) estradiol. Those that you are getting seem to be the generics made by Teva pharmaceuticals which is what I take as well. Those only contain 17-β Estradiol plus I think sugar and coloring as well as the pill coating and other inert ingredients.

I've taken both, Kate. The colors between the green and the blue have to do with dosages, there's twice as much estradiol in the blues as the greens. (I keep my greens around in case my prescription runs out ahead of my next appointment.)

Quote from: Dee Walker on March 27, 2015, 08:40:28 AM
I've taken both, Kate. The colors between the green and the blue have to do with dosages, there's twice as much estradiol in the blues as the greens. (I keep my greens around in case my prescription runs out ahead of my next appointment.)

Right.  When I meant blue I didn't really distinguish between blue and green.

I was more interested in the markings which confirm Teva as the mfg.

Oh and the ones I take are green I guess. The 1mg ones are purple...

http://www.drugs.com/imprints/b-887-2-1098.html

Inert ingredients:
silicon dioxide
corn starch
calcium phosphate dibasic anhydrous
lactose monohydrate
magnesium stearate
sodium starch glycolate type A potato
FD&C Blue No. 1
FD&C Yellow No. 5
aluminum oxide

So I guess corn starch and not sugar.

Quote from: Amy85 on March 26, 2015, 04:55:09 PM
What is premarin and why is it undesirable?

It increases the risk for cancers and clotting.

Besides I don't want horse estrogen in my body...

The route, oral or sublingual, also plays a role...
you might have a look at this thread, and talk about it with your doctor :
https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,77432.msg1027138.html#msg1027138

There are micronized estrogen pills which are less coated and dissolve pretty quickly, if this one takes too long to dissolve... they are for sublingual use...

and like others have pointed out, there are other ways of administration... topical and implants, for example.

Quote from: ImagineKate on March 27, 2015, 08:47:35 AM
Right.  When I meant blue I didn't really distinguish between blue and green.

I was more interested in the markings which confirm Teva as the mfg.

Oh and the ones I take are green I guess. The 1mg ones are purple...

http://www.drugs.com/imprints/b-887-2-1098.html

Inert ingredients:
silicon dioxide
corn starch
calcium phosphate dibasic anhydrous
lactose monohydrate
magnesium stearate
sodium starch glycolate type A potato
FD&C Blue No. 1
FD&C Yellow No. 5
aluminum oxide

So I guess corn starch and not sugar.

You were right, I just looked. Purple < blue-green. My memory is shot. I blame senility.

Quote from: ImagineKate on March 27, 2015, 08:34:47 AM
The blue pills are generic anhydrous (without water) estradiol. Those that you are getting seem to be the generics made by Teva pharmaceuticals which is what I take as well. Those only contain 17-β Estradiol plus I think sugar and coloring as well as the pill coating and other inert ingredients.

Yeah, my doctor told me twice a day but when I look up doses it says once.  They seem milder than the gel though. 

*mod edit: no dosages please

Quote from: Amy1988 on March 27, 2015, 01:42:41 PM
Yeah, my doctor told me twice a day but when I look up doses it says once.  They seem milder than the gel though. 

*mod edit: no dosages please

Once per day (one pill per day) is likely for cis women post menopause or postop trans women. 

My nurse practitioner basically told me it doesn't matter but i could split the doses to even out the daily highs and lows or I could take it all at once. She wrote the prescription for <x>mg 3x per day.

I actually did it this way and take 3x per day spaced out 8 hours because when we were doing fertility treatment my wife's estradiol script was written the same way because the fertility doc said the hormone levels had to be consistent. They also had her other injections and the only time we had success is when we made sure and did it the exact same time every day. So in the interest of keeping my levels constant and not being cold/hot flashes (which I was having with a small E dose) I just split mine... some may disagree but it works for me.

Quote from: ImagineKate on March 27, 2015, 03:51:25 PM
Once per day (one pill per day) is likely for cis women post menopause or postop trans women. 

My nurse practitioner basically told me it doesn't matter but i could split the doses to even out the daily highs and lows or I could take it all at once. She wrote the prescription for <x>mg 3x per day.

I actually did it this way and take 3x per day spaced out 8 hours because when we were doing fertility treatment my wife's estradiol script was written the same way because the fertility doc said the hormone levels had to be consistent. They also had her other injections and the only time we had success is when we made sure and did it the exact same time every day. So in the interest of keeping my levels constant and not being cold/hot flashes (which I was having with a small E dose) I just split mine... some may disagree but it works for me.

Thing is though I'm super sensitive to just about any medication including estrogen.  My levels on the gel stayed about 35 which is very low but I've gotten super results. I might try @ a day and see how I do.  This stuff is powerful.

The horse estrogen thing is really overstated. The primary estrogen in Premarin is Estrone, which your body converts to Estradiol. It is endongeous to the female body by the way and of course, allows your own body to make your own estrogen (via conversion). The real concerns should be it's effect on the liver as mentioned and that it's got a bit of a higher risk for clotting. As for results, I have to say my results have been excellent and I'm primarily switching off it to give my liver a break, as I take other pills as well. The girls are certainly quite big from them xD