I know there can be some common issues with two trans people dating each other.  I'm just having a little trouble.  Not sure if there's anything anyone can really help with but might help me just to vent because I feel I can't talk to her about this particular issue. 

So I've been dating my girlfriend for a little while.  Under a month.  Physically and chronologically we are at similar points in our transitions.  I might be a little ahead.  I thought this would make things easier because we could move along and grow together.  But it seems emotionally we are just in different places.  I'm perfectly comfortable around strangers even big groups, well, as comfortable as I was before I was out, maybe even more.  I still have some social anxiety issues but its manageable.  She, on the other hand, is like a complete wreck out in public.  She notices tons of people staring and laughing and whispering and pointing and it just freaks her out.  I'm out there in the same exact place and I just don't see it.  The other problem is she points out that people are staring and whispering about me as well as her.  I think they might be but if I ever see anyone looking I usually figure its because I have pink hair, or that I look hot in what I'm wearing, or something unrelated to being trans.  I could be fooling myself, probably am, but its what I have to do to survive.  But when she talks about it cause its bothering her, it starts to dig into my own brain and my insecurities grow.  I've just gotten past worrying about what people think or if someone is staring or not, and I know its not easy for most people to get over that, but I honestly feel like she's dragging me down or something.  I feel horrible about it and wish I could just convince her that all these random people, they just don't matter, to just ignore it, or maybe theyre looking at you because youre beautiful, but if I say anything like that, it just sets her off and upsets her that I can do it but she can't.

I'm happier with her, and love having her around to go out and stuff.  But I just can't handle the freaking out.  I wish I could just be more supportive somehow, without letting myself get dragged down into the dumps.

Well 1st thing, congrats on finding a partner in the same boat. I kind of hope to be in the boat someday.

Now with her insecurities, you have to be calm and keep reassuring her that it's fine. If people are staring or saying things behind your back, just ignore them. Tell her that it means nothing. She and you will likely never see those people again. Sticks and stones may break your bones, but words can do no harm. This is hard to live with and do, seeing that the whole world judges anyone and everyone for any stupid reason. Maybe if she has such a hard time adjusting either walk in front of her and keep a distance ahead. If people are in fact judging, they would see you first and possibly ignore her. Or you do something to drawn attention to yourself and keep the focus off her. Perhaps wear flashier clothing and have her wear normal non-revealing clothing might also help. This will certainly help her a little bit with adjusting.

Pretty much at least keep reassuring her it's fine. Eventually she will get it in her head that it's no longer an issue.

I'm actually going out my first time next week dressed up and I'll be honest I'm very terrified. I'm very pre everything and I don't sound or look womanly. So maybe you could her tell that. If she's at least on the hormones, and has been out in public more than once. I think she'll be fine. I don't know what to expect myself so it'll be an experience. If I can make it outside than I think she'll be alright. Remember the only thing we have to fear is fear itself. getting past that mindset will help.

Don't let her say things like "you can do it and she can't". You're both in the same boat. You need to be proactive and tell her she's wrong. Make her feel like it's the other way around. This will help her a little bit. Tell her some of her qualities are better than yours. I try to do this method myself when people say I do stuff good or that I'm looking good.

Hope this was somewhat of a help

I definitely stand out more.  I guess that makes it harder for her if we're together.  I like to be myself and I dress how I want.  Like today she was wearing stuff that just would make her blend in.  I have pink hair as I said, was wearing a see through spaghetti strap tank and short shorts and heels.  I think I pull it off pretty well.


I do tell her all those things and she knows them but I guess she just can't get her head out of that mindset

She said it bothered her seeing people looking at me.

I just wanna be able to do stuff together like go swimming and go dancing, but its not gonna happen anytime soon.

Quote from: Danielle Emmalee on March 29, 2015, 06:56:13 PM
She said it bothered her seeing people looking at me.

Oh so perhaps its more of a jealousy factor than. I can see where that would make her nerves unsettling. Yes you are very pretty and very passable to me. For someone like her it might be hard to be accepted if no one notices you. I certainly know that feeling, it's been here my whole life. You are very capable of doing whatever. It may do her some good to go out with and swim or dance. If she sees how comfortable you are, than it might open her up a little bit. Who knows. It could also be that because you stand out more than a normal person, this might make her uneasy. Seems to me like she just wants to joe smoe and go about her life. While you on the other hand are the fun one and more outgoing personality.

If she's on the site, I'd love to hear her side of things.

Quote from: Danielle Emmalee on March 29, 2015, 06:16:57 PM
I still have some social anxiety issues but its manageable.  She, on the other hand, is like a complete wreck out in public.  She notices tons of people staring and laughing and whispering and pointing and it just freaks her out.  I'm out there in the same exact place and I just don't see it.

I wonder if she has had treatment for anxiety? There also sounds like some paranoia mixed in for good measure. It can be difficult to encourage people when they have that kind of stuff going on for them and there may not be a lot you can do specifically. I presume she is talking to her counsellor about these issues...?

I'm sorry if any of this sounds harsh, it's not meant to be, it a difficult situation and I understand how frustrating it must be for you. I have had a lot of social anxiety issues and I often feel like people stare or clock me even when they don't so I know how your girlfriend is feeling a bit. It can be very difficult to get past that feeling and saying things like 'they don't matter, it's just words' doesn't really help. She needs understanding and help boosting her confidence, not telling that she's paranoid or that there's something wrong with her, it will just damage her self esteem more.
Plus, unfortunately, I've generally found that the easiest way to draw attention in public is to hang around with other trans women. Any scrutiny that you would normally be under is amplified by there being two of you, even if you pass fine individually. That doesn't mean that trans women shouldn't hang out together, but I do think you have to be prepared for that and strong enough to ignore it, which your girlfriend isn't. I'm not either and it puts me off dating trans women. On top of that you have the social stigma that sadly still goes with lesbian relationships, so if you are affectionate in public then that will draw attention as well.
Confidence is a really tough thing, and when you are low on it you can quickly find yourself surrounded by people telling you to pull yourself together, snap out of it etc. she probably would benefit from some counselling, either way it might be something that you won't be able to help her with. Does she have any friends that you could talk to about it?

Quote from: Squircle on March 30, 2015, 02:43:53 AM
I'm sorry if any of this sounds harsh, it's not meant to be, it a difficult situation and I understand how frustrating it must be for you. I have had a lot of social anxiety issues and I often feel like people stare or clock me even when they don't so I know how your girlfriend is feeling a bit. It can be very difficult to get past that feeling and saying things like 'they don't matter, it's just words' doesn't really help. She needs understanding and help boosting her confidence, not telling that she's paranoid or that there's something wrong with her, it will just damage her self esteem more.
Plus, unfortunately, I've generally found that the easiest way to draw attention in public is to hang around with other trans women. Any scrutiny that you would normally be under is amplified by there being two of you, even if you pass fine individually. That doesn't mean that trans women shouldn't hang out together, but I do think you have to be prepared for that and strong enough to ignore it, which your girlfriend isn't. I'm not either and it puts me off dating trans women. On top of that you have the social stigma that sadly still goes with lesbian relationships, so if you are affectionate in public then that will draw attention as well.
Confidence is a really tough thing, and when you are low on it you can quickly find yourself surrounded by people telling you to pull yourself together, snap out of it etc. she probably would benefit from some counselling, either way it might be something that you won't be able to help her with. Does she have any friends that you could talk to about it?

Thanks.  I have social anxiety issues myself.  They've gotten a lot better.  And yes I know saying stuff like that doesn't help at all.  Counselling would probably be a good idea.  She isn't seeing a therapist or anything right now.  I don't think she wants to.  I dunno.  I never saw one myself, so I feel stupid suggesting it when I cant even do it myself.  But really, thank you for the reminder that the common responses to try to help are usually useless.  I kinda forget what it was like for me sometimes

I do get stared at all the time. I guess the difference is though, that I just don't care. I'd go as far as to say that I kinda enjoy it ...

I'll probably end up with a boyfriend sooner than later. I am on the prowl.

I can't be with a guy who will be uncomfortable being seen with me. That will never work.

I need a guy with confidence and self worth, someone who also doesn't care about being stared at, or anything like it.

I need that to keep growing, myself. I can't be carrying a partner at this point in time. I need someone who will step out with me and take any consequences on the chin. I need someone who will be proud of me, and proud of himself, too.

Quote from: Danielle Emmalee on March 29, 2015, 06:16:57 PM
I'm happier with her, and love having her around to go out and stuff.  But I just can't handle the freaking out.  I wish I could just be more supportive somehow, without letting myself get dragged down into the dumps.

Danielle, everyone deals with stress differently. You are learning that your new GF deals with stress by freaking out. Some day she might find a better way, but people don't change for other people, they change for themselves. For now, your only choices are to accept her as she is, freaking out and all, or decide she isn't the right person for you.

So, in short, the bad news is that you can't change her, but the good news is you have a choice whether to accept her and stay with her or to move on and find someone else.

Good luck. I hope this helps.

Quote from: Danielle Emmalee on March 30, 2015, 05:46:17 AM
She isn't seeing a therapist or anything right now.  I don't think she wants to. 

I guess the question is does she see it as an issue for herself? Until she does she's unlikely to want/seek help or intervention.

Danielle is a nice name...

you might look up this brochure, it might help:
https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,185637.msg1652184.html#msg1652184

Well its a case of expectations... if you remain calm, and she can be convinced its just people talking, and most people are approving, its more likely you make those experiences... I'd say just keep at it...
people look for a variety of reasons... you might even look back and smile a little... a smile goes a long way... especially queer people often give that approving glance...

I'd say both just be yourself... feel comfortable, do what you like and everything should be ok .

you might think about support groups... there might be a lgbt center close to you, with support groups...

and she could do a few things that make her feel more comfortable and bring down her overall anxiety level... relaxation exercises maybe... even meditation... a bit of regular exercise to work off stress...

*hugs*

Thanks everyone.  I don't feel like I want to change her.  I just want her to be happy.  We're going to a trans support meeting in a few weeks.  I hope it helps her more than it helped me.

Hi Danielle

It's a hard one, having found a partner and then dealing with the stresses that come with one.  Suzi's comments are rather true - ultimately it becomes a choice that's yours to make.  Some people find a complex partner to be interesting; others don't want to deal with that complexity on a daily basis.   I do see couples where such issues are balanced between the two people - an excitable person with a calm one.  But if you feel that she is dragging you down, only you can take steps to stop this.

On the other hand I am somewhat puzzled by creating obstacles when it's avoidable.  It's an age thing - I'm a bit older and work in a corporate environment which requires some level of formal dress, so I dress the part.  The pink hair is cool, and I did the same when I was around your age (but not yet in my new body).  However, if you want people to notice you less, hey, there are obvious easy simple no-surgery low-cost ways to do it.  If either of you is tall, kill the heels.  Or if broad shoulders are an issue disguise them with a pretty top.  Similarly with the groovy hair colours.   

I'm all for being out and proud, but when your look adds to your social stress it would seem counter productive to deliberately maintain the discomfort.  And this applies equally when you're in a couple; it's a respect thing.

Hope this helps
Julia

to address your confusion, I never said I don't want people to look at me or notice me less.

I don't know.  I feel like I'm not explaining myself well or something.  Thanks for trying, anyways.

Quote from: Danielle Emmalee on March 30, 2015, 07:17:31 AM
Thanks everyone.  I don't feel like I want to change her.  I just want her to be happy.  We're going to a trans support meeting in a few weeks.  I hope it helps her more than it helped me.

I wouldn't say you want to change her...
ever been in a group with people being nervous before a test ? It kind of carries over... but same if you stay calm... it also carries over to other people.
If you stay relaxed and expect others to be nice its more likely you make that experience. Its kind of a subconscious message...

As said, you might try to relax... get out together a bit, and get used to it... and she might use a hoodie first, for example, if she feels more protected that way... having more of her own space...


hugs

Lol this is what happened.  I was calm, enjoying myself, and that was part of what was upsetting to her.  That I was so calm and happy and having a good time and she wasn't

the whole stare thing used to happen to me before I really transitioned and was basically a femme guy wearing makeup and androgynous clothes...it bothered me like crazy... although most people don't stare anymore I still am extremely nervous about interacting with people I guess...part of why im not trying much to get a job...being trans really sucks...its great that your not bothered by it though