As promised from https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,21922.0.html, Marketing the Androgyne I. 

Is it militant, strictly political, the same as androgyne?  Does it apply to you?  Why or why not?  Since we seem to have some different opinions about the word 'genderqueer', I would like everyone's thoughts on it. 


This isn't a political topic.  It's meant to be educational.   

No, it is not militant. No, it is not strictly political. Do genderqueers have a tendency towards activism rather than apathy? Yes, in my experience.

I identify as genderqueer mostly because it is a widly used term, and very much an umbrella term. To me, anyone who operates outside the binary would be genderqueer, which is more or less all transgenders excluding those who consider themselves within a binary (many transsexuals, for example).

It is also, for me, a relative synonym of androgyne. I used to use that term with other people, till I learned that genderqueer was more widely used and therefore easier to connect to people with. Privatly, I talk about being androgyne, or something similar to that identification, while publicly I use the term genderqueer because of its wider acceptance. In other ways, the term androgyne doesn't quite fit, since I often see myself as a mixing of male and female gender archetypes, along with something other, which I can't really describe and may be alot of different things. In that case, its just easier to use an umbrella term. Genderqueer, in my experience, works just fine.

I actually came across the term 'androgyne' first and it seems to fit me the best...maybe I just like saying it.

I thought they were basically the same also, but genderqueer feels more general.  To me androgyne leans more the the null gender specifically, but I don't know what everyone else feels about it.

EDIT: Maybe I should say that I am androgyne and null gendered, since 'androgyne' is the broader term.  That works better.

I think "genderqueer" is slightly broader than "androgyne".  An FTM, for example, is just an M as far as gender is concerned, so I don't consider TGs as androgyne.  TGs would still be genderqueer, since their genders don't fit the assumptions of the binary model.

Quote from: Simon on November 12, 2007, 06:56:37 PM
I think "genderqueer" is slightly broader than "androgyne".  An FTM, for example, is just an M as far as gender is concerned, so I don't consider TGs as androgyne.  TGs would still be genderqueer, since their genders don't fit the assumptions of the binary model.

I consider androgyne and genderqueer both transgender. Trans, as opposed to cis, if I may break my own "rule" and speak in binaries.

Quote from: Jaimey on November 12, 2007, 06:55:29 PM
To me androgyne leans more the the null gender specifically, but I don't know what everyone else feels about it.

Well the root of the word suggests it could be in the middle of male and female (Andro meaning male, Gyne meaning female)

*shrugs* hehe

I also associate the word genderqueer politically, sort of.  I guess what I mean is that I associate it more with the LGBT movement as opposed to my own personal gender identity.  It seems more public than private to me...does that make any sense?  Hmm.  I imagine that has to do with today's definition of "queer", which, in my mind, sort of links "genderqueer" with sexual orientation, even though I know it doesn't have anything to do with that. 

*sigh*  why do these things have to be so damn complicated? 

I too feel that genderqueer is a more general term than androgyne.

I feel I fall under the umbrella of genderqueer. I think it would apply to anyone that felt their gender was different to what would be considered 'normal'. This would include say men that said they were men but were not male like other men are male, for whatever reason...

I also think it has political connotations. For me it seems to represent those that purposefully go against the gender norms as a statement. Look at me, I break the mold and proud of it, why can't we have equality kind of thing, or as a protest against the rules of society..rah rah rah...

Quote from: NickSister on November 12, 2007, 07:16:52 PM
I too feel that genderqueer is a more general term than androgyne.

I feel I fall under the umbrella of genderqueer. I think it would apply to anyone that felt their gender was different to what would be considered 'normal'. This would include say men that said they were men but were not male like other men are male, for whatever reason...

I think that if they consider themselves male, and not some sort of NBGV (nonbinary gender variant) then some other identification should not be applied to them. Its just my personal opinion that a person should be considered the gender they choose for themselves, regardless of presentation. If they came to the awareness that they were somehow not male gendered, or not completly male gendered, and they chose to call themselves genderqueer, then it would be different.

Anyone want to submit a definition for genderqueer? 

I understand the term, but I like having definitions, just to make sure I understand it correctly.  I should just type nerd on my forehead.

I would identify androgyne as null gendered (after many discussions on here), but does everyone else?

Quote from: Jaimey on November 12, 2007, 07:32:04 PM
Anyone want to submit a definition for genderqueer? 

I understand the term, but I like having definitions, just to make sure I understand it correctly.  I should just type nerd on my forehead.

I would identify androgyne as null gendered (after many discussions on here), but does everyone else?

I've always thought of androgyne as mixedgendered. Either that, or a sort of umbrella term.

Quote from: Jaimey on November 12, 2007, 07:32:04 PM
Anyone want to submit a definition for genderqueer? 

I understand the term, but I like having definitions, just to make sure I understand it correctly.  I should just type nerd on my forehead.

I would identify androgyne as null gendered (after many discussions on here), but does everyone else?

I think us androgynes consider null gendered to fit within the androgyne sphere (that is anyone that does not identify as just male or just female). We tend to include people that identify as bigendered, nutois, 3rd gender, 4th gender, mixed gender..... i.e. anyone that does not identify as just male or just female.

I suppose you could say I am null gendered in that I don't have a gender that is either male or female. But I don't identify as null gendered - that is having no gender.  I have a gender. It is just not male or female.

I was introduced to androgyne and genderqueer at the same time.

I assumed they mean different things.

I assumed I was androgyne, because I am not queer.

Quote from: Jaimey on November 12, 2007, 07:15:43 PM
  I imagine that has to do with today's definition of "queer", which, in my mind, sort of links "genderqueer" with sexual orientation, even though I know it doesn't have anything to do with that. 

A such I assumed that androgyne was the umberella term for all people who did not fit comfortable in the gender binary at that genderqueer were a more external version of this. Like the difference between being a girl and being girly. This seems a common idea.

Quote from: NickSister on November 12, 2007, 07:16:52 PM
it seems to represent those that purposefully go against the gender norms as a statement. Look at me, I break the mold and proud of it, why can't we have equality kind of thing, or as a protest against the rules of society..rah rah rah...

Quote from: Jaimey on November 12, 2007, 07:15:43 PM
I also associate the word genderqueer politically, sort of.  I guess what I mean is that I associate it more with the LGBT movement as opposed to my own personal gender identity. 

Quote from: Kaimialana on November 12, 2007, 06:34:06 PM
Do genderqueers have a tendency towards activism rather than apathy? Yes, in my experience.

It seemed from meeting that the two terms had different meanings. One as the type of thing (androgyne) and one as a reaction to that (genderqueer).

It appears that I may have been wrong.
And well I should be. But as a mistake, oh a wrong turn, I think it is both a logical and useful one to make. The people who feel it within but do not expose without, and the ones who do both, and scare most interested parties away.

As my little video said, we are normal. But are we really?

QuoteA such I assumed that androgyne was the umberella term for all people who did not fit comfortable in the gender binary at that genderqueer were a more external version of this. Like the difference between being a girl and being girly. This seems a common idea.

I'm getting confused again LOL

is genderqueer a synonym of androgyny?

depends who you ask

Quote from: NickSister on November 12, 2007, 07:45:41 PM
I suppose you could say I am null gendered in that I don't have a gender that is either male or female. But I don't identify as null gendered - that is having no gender.  I have a gender. It is just not male or female.

Heh this is where the definition of null gender gets tricky.  As I see it, null gender is a term that can be used for two types of people, the 'I don't have a gender' types and the 'I have a gender and it's null' types.  Null as a gender refers to people who feel they are not male or female and not a combination of the two (and usually feel they're supposed to have a nullified appearance), simply being non-binary doesn't make you null.

Quote from: Jaimey on November 12, 2007, 07:32:04 PM
Anyone want to submit a definition for genderqueer? 

I understand the term, but I like having definitions, just to make sure I understand it correctly.  I should just type nerd on my forehead.

Not a formal definition, but:

I heard the term genderqueer way before androgyne (which I first encountered here). When I hear the term 'genderqueer', I think of a female-bodied person identifying as ftm, but not as male. That's who I usually hear using the term.

Quote from: Nero on November 13, 2007, 05:02:03 AM
I heard the term genderqueer way before androgyne (which I first encountered here). When I hear the term 'genderqueer', I think of a female-bodied person identifying as ftm, but not as male. That's who I usually hear using the term.

Meaning a female bodied person taking the steps for a male body but without the male gender identity?

interesting ... that might not be that far off...

Quote from: Alison on November 13, 2007, 05:06:14 AM

Quote from: Nero on November 13, 2007, 05:02:03 AM
I heard the term genderqueer way before androgyne (which I first encountered here). When I hear the term 'genderqueer', I think of a female-bodied person identifying as ftm, but not as male. That's who I usually hear using the term.

Meaning a female bodied person taking the steps for a male body but without the male gender identity?

interesting ... that might not be that far off...

Yes. There's a very large percentage of them on the ftm sites. They don't identify as men, but not as women either. Some get the works (HRT, top surgery, hysterectomy, etc) and some only opt for one of those modifications. I'd say their number is at least equal to male ftms.

When I first heard the term genderqueer, I think back in the 90s, it was definitely politically charged. Although I could relate to it, it never felt quite the right term for my identity. I was also aware of androgyne, but only as an ancient word, at that time I wasn't hearing it used as an identity. It wasn't until I started hanging around here at Susan's about a year ago that I heard it used as such. That was/is close to how I felt, so I've been using it since. Although I do like the term androgyne, particularly its spiritual/mystical aspect, even that doesn't fit sometimes. It's hard to describe something so deep as my gender with one word. I'm just Z.

Zythyra