I started transition at 24 on the cusp of 25....it actually will be 3 years tomorrow I've been on HRT.  I still don't pass...I've been correctly gendered a couple dozen times when I was out at my old job, but ever when I'm wearing a jacket or out on the street.  Never, ever, always seen as male 100%.  Everyone says I'm cute and such, and I can see that, but I'm also really massively built, bigger than any cis woman ever unless they were a weightlifter and I'm built thin so it just makes me look like a tall teenage boy.  I really wanna be able to pass most of the time or at least walk down the street without a lot of harrassment for being trans...I don't even need to be stealth, just enough to get me by in short interactions with people.  I'm worried even FFS won't be enough...I'm just too damn big...

Hiya, Lemons

The important question you need to be asking yourself is not 'can I pass' - but instead, 'will transition improve my quality of life'.

If going through this will improve your quality of life, it is absolutely worth doing.

If not, then you may need to reassess ...

We all want to look nice and to be seen for who we are. But really, 'passing' is of secondary importance in our journey.

You are doing this to feel right within yourself - not to please others. Don't lose sight of that.

x

Lemons, I read a few of your other posts, and we actually have a lot in common. We're both six feet tall, we both have similar body types, we both have similar weights (you actually weigh about 10 pounds less than I do  ), and we both started HRT around the same time in our lives (I started experimenting with HRT the year I turned 25, but I wasn't even on a stable full dose regimen until about a year ago). I'm not really what you would call stealth, but I do pass most of the time. At least to the point where normal everyday social interactions are not an issue. So trust me, it can be done.

But another thing we seem to have in common, is that we both tend to obsess over our body dysphoria. I have only recently finally started to get over doing this, and I have to say, it's just not worth it. If the reason why you are transitioning is to be happy with yourself, then at a certain point you have to understand that is just as much about accepting the things you can't change as it is changing the things you can't accept. We are never going to have the perfect female bodies that we wish we were able to, no matter what we do. But that doesn't mean you can't find ways to make the body you do have work well enough for you that you can be happy with it.

When I tried to transition back in 1990 I passed sometimes and not others. It usually came down to how I dressed and presented myself. In a dress, yes no problem whatsoever. In jeans - no. But I can pass in jeans now, easily.

So what changed?

I realised this time that even when dressing in jeans women tend to wear different styles of clothing - with different cuts and colours, plus of course their shoes, jewellery, accessories and they way they style their hair, plus of course dressing to their figure and trying to give their bosom some prominence. It all adds up to a statement of their "femininity". That is easy enough to copy and you don't have to go overboard. When I wear jeans I might wear a women's tee with very short sleeves and a lower cut neckline, I might wear one bracelet and a necklace, a little bit of make-up but not that much, I might wear sandals or a casual deck shoes with the cuff of the jeans rolled up to 3/4. Add a handbag or a tote and the overall effect works very well... and I'm 6'3". But if I went out in a loose baggy andro tee, a back pack and nondescript jeans and sand shoes then I would look a lot more like a "dude" despite my hair and boobs.

The more andro you dress the more people will look for other cues (like height, facial features) to gender you. Not fair but it's generally the way people roll...

So I don't know if that is your issue but I thought I'd throw it in.

I'm 6ft, 145 ish, big boned, deep voice, you name it, it is all wrong. When I "experimented" with transition (actually twice) in my twenties, both were disasters. Like Ms Grace I now try to present as unambiguously female as I can be it in a skirt or jeans. No misgendering issues to date. A few uncomfortably longish looks but I try to think it is because I am tall, thin and look pretty good for an old dinosaur

how tall and what are some measurements?

@ Wild Flower - I don't do smites, but please, think before you hit Enter!

Quote from: Ms Grace on April 03, 2015, 06:49:06 PM
When I tried to transition back in 1990 I passed sometimes and not others. It usually came down to how I dressed and presented myself. In a dress, yes no problem whatsoever. In jeans - no. But I can pass in jeans now, easily.

So what changed?

I realised this time that even when dressing in jeans women tend to wear different styles of clothing - with different cuts and colours, plus of course their shoes, jewellery, accessories and they way they style their hair, plus of course dressing to their figure and trying to give their bosom some prominence. It all adds up to a statement of their "femininity". That is easy enough to copy and you don't have to go overboard. When I wear jeans I might wear a women's tee with very short sleeves and a lower cut neckline, I might wear one bracelet and a necklace, a little bit of make-up but not that much, I might wear sandals or a casual deck shoes with the cuff of the jeans rolled up to 3/4. Add a handbag or a tote and the overall effect works very well... and I'm 6'3". But if I went out in a loose baggy andro tee, a back pack and nondescript jeans and sand shoes then I would look a lot more like a "dude" despite my hair and boobs.

The more andro you dress the more people will look for other cues (like height, facial features) to gender you. Not fair but it's generally the way people roll...

So I don't know if that is your issue but I thought I'd throw it in.

This is a pearl of wisdom here.

I haven't totally mastered it yet but I have a pretty good handle on what it takes.

In fact I am gendered female without hesitation even after my son calls me "daddy" in public... and he has absolutely no inhibitions about doing so. All comes down to how it all comes together, and yes, my chest shows prominently.

Quote from: Annabolton on April 03, 2015, 09:39:58 PM
how tall and what are some measurements?

I'm exactly 6 feet tall.

Chest:36 inches
Waist:32 inches
Underbust:33.5 inches (wide ribcage that sticks out :/)
Hips: 34 inches
Wrist: little over 7 inches
Forearm: 10 inches
Bicep: 11 inches
Head circumference: 23.7 inches (very big)
Theigh: 21 inches
Calf: 14 inches
Ankle: 9.75 inches
Shoe size: Women's 12
Hand length: (from middle finger to wrist) 8 inches
Hand width: (across palm) 3 inches

I can give details for each too, but yeah, these are the base measurements of my body.  As you can see, one big problem I have is my lack of hips.  The other two mainly being my ginormous head (it really is massive irl), and my lack of a more definable waist due to a ribcage that sticks out at the sides.
Laser has been very very kind to my face and I barely have to shave at all anymore, as well as having a relatively normal amount of body hair for a cis woman at this point, so those aren't problems.
I've posted pictures before, and on other threads but it's honestly usually a bit unhelpful as I'm often bombarded with "OMG YOU LOOK SO CUTE AND CIS" and not much else and while I agree with the cute part generally, it just isn't the case because I just am never read as female.  Standing alone in the mirror I can sometimes see that I look ok, but as soon as any other woman, no matter her size, is next to me, it becomes all too obvious that my frame is distinctly male compared to theirs.
I could again, but yeah, that's why I didn't initially.

I don't think any of your measurements are particularly big, aside from height and torso measurements (and shoe size) we are pretty similar. I'm 5'7".

I once went to a social group for LGBT people, and only women turned up. I felt like a monster around them, until another girl arrived. She was over six foot and of quite masculine build but she was clearly cis. Work on all the things you can change and people are less likely to question the things you can't.

If you do want honest feedback then post a picture, it's a bit hard to comment otherwise.

Quote from: Ms Grace on April 03, 2015, 06:49:06 PM
When I tried to transition back in 1990 I passed sometimes and not others. It usually came down to how I dressed and presented myself. In a dress, yes no problem whatsoever. In jeans - no. But I can pass in jeans now, easily.

So what changed?

I realised this time that even when dressing in jeans women tend to wear different styles of clothing - with different cuts and colours, plus of course their shoes, jewellery, accessories and they way they style their hair, plus of course dressing to their figure and trying to give their bosom some prominence. It all adds up to a statement of their "femininity". That is easy enough to copy and you don't have to go overboard. When I wear jeans I might wear a women's tee with very short sleeves and a lower cut neckline, I might wear one bracelet and a necklace, a little bit of make-up but not that much, I might wear sandals or a casual deck shoes with the cuff of the jeans rolled up to 3/4. Add a handbag or a tote and the overall effect works very well... and I'm 6'3". But if I went out in a loose baggy andro tee, a back pack and nondescript jeans and sand shoes then I would look a lot more like a "dude" despite my hair and boobs.

The more andro you dress the more people will look for other cues (like height, facial features) to gender you. Not fair but it's generally the way people roll...

So I don't know if that is your issue but I thought I'd throw it in.

^^^^^ Everything Ms Grace said is true.^^^^^

We have all been there at one point or another. Another BIG part of passing is attitude and confidence. Let's remember that most people are so absorbed in their own little world that they wouldn't notice another human being standing next to them if that person were on fire. If you are walking around thinking "Oh, I don't pass; what if someone clocks me?" you are going to get clocked. People often smell the fear and discomfort more than they notice physical appearance. You put out a vibe that others pick up on.  If you walk around with the attitude "I am me, and I am a woman". You will pass far more often than you think or could even imagine.

Head's up and sell it sister, you are beautiful.

Quote from: allisonsteph on April 04, 2015, 06:25:48 AM
^^^^^ Everything Ms Grace said is true.^^^^^

We have all been there at one point or another. Another BIG part of passing is attitude and confidence. Let's remember that most people are so absorbed in their own little world that they wouldn't notice another human being standing next to them if that person were on fire. If you are walking around thinking "Oh, I don't pass; what if someone clocks me?" you are going to get clocked. People often smell the fear and discomfort more than they notice physical appearance. You put out a vibe that others pick up on.  If you walk around with the attitude "I am me, and I am a woman". You will pass far more often than you think or could even imagine.

Head's up and sell it sister, you are beautiful.

Attitude and confidence is important but it's not going to prevent you from being read. I've have friends that are  trans women who still look like "trans" women, but they are OK with that. They are happier being their true selves so it doesn't matter.

I think before we set false hope for OP, the real message is that confidence does help in coping but it isn't going to help in the physical department. I think Ms. Grace's ideas would go a lot farther than confidence. I will agree without confidence you give off a weird vibes which will draw attention to you, but either way people can tell.

The bottom line is that some people hit the genetic/HRT lottery and some dont. The people that aren't so fortunate, learn to live with it and build a thick skin because being themselves is more important than pleasing others. Or they have Lots of surgery. Life isn't fair but you can either make the best of what you have and come to terms with things you can't change, or risk being unhappy all your life.

How important is it to you to be your true self?

Quote from: lemons on April 03, 2015, 04:48:56 PM
I started transition at 24 on the cusp of 25....it actually will be 3 years tomorrow I've been on HRT.  I still don't pass...I've been correctly gendered a couple dozen times when I was out at my old job, but ever when I'm wearing a jacket or out on the street.  Never, ever, always seen as male 100%.  Everyone says I'm cute and such, and I can see that, but I'm also really massively built, bigger than any cis woman ever unless they were a weightlifter and I'm built thin so it just makes me look like a tall teenage boy.  I really wanna be able to pass most of the time or at least walk down the street without a lot of harrassment for being trans...I don't even need to be stealth, just enough to get me by in short interactions with people.  I'm worried even FFS won't be enough...I'm just too damn big...

Well you could do a few things...
growing your hair out... you could look up hairstyles for trans people... bangs for example and shoulder length hair or longer might be advantageous...
as others have said, accessoires... and unobtrusive jackets etc for females... not overdoing it...
well models are over 6 ft... and the advantage of trans people are often very long feet . With trousers of the right colour and the right pockets in the back this can be emphasized, for example...
the same goes for sweaters, for example... colours and cuts make a difference...
you might look up a few makeup techniques, there is one video for example " Plastic Surgery With MakeUp Fuller, Bigger Lips " where you can make your lips appear bigger, and much more feminine... its possible for example to use unobtrusive colours...
you might think about nourishing products for your face skin...
makeup products imo preferably organic and from plants like coconut oil or jojoba oil (unless allergic of course)... not mineral based...
better imo a few quality products than many non quality...
you might try nutrition and a bit of exercise... more vegetables and fruits, in a healthy variety... less carbonated and high sugar drinks... and regular exercises like walking, swimming or biking... high quality oils and butter instead of artificial fats...
there are a few threads on voices... beside pitch, there are a few things like a bit more breathiness... using more indirect language... more intonation... this might be trained quite fast...
using some pastimes to get into contact with your female side... cooking, gardening, being creative... this might help with just getting a overall more feminine emanation... of course only if you really like those pastimes...

I'd say just keep at it...
and you could practice first with a few friends who are likely to give a good feedback...

hugs

Your pictures only prove what others have said. The hair style and cut of the clothing among a few things will make the difference. You look more female in some of the pictures than others, but overall you don't look bad in any of them. The hairstyle, accessories, and possibly even makeup could only help improve your look. The two pictures that look like they are from your bathroom I think you look the best in actually in my opinion. Hugs and good luck
Mariah

Here is where the problem lies, though.  This is me only at 17, and you can see I'm distinctly bigger than the average girl.  So much so that it's juuuust outside of cis female ranges.  I don't even mean height either, just general size of my build like my head and torso.

As others will point out. Height isn't an issue many on her are taller than the average girl. Even my height is on the high end for the average girl. I wouldn't let certain dimensions of your body bother you because there is nothing that really can be done about them. As far ribcage which doesn't look bad in any photo is all that will result in the size of breasts sometimes looking smaller as a result of that making it look like you need a bigger cup size to compensate for it, but reality your size isn't any problem. There are many on here over 6 feet tall who sizes are bigger than the average girl and they transition just fine. Confidence in yourself could and will take you along ways when it comes to this. As far as shoe size I started out with and 11w or 12 depending on the shoe, but have lost a little size since then and in some cases I can fit down as small as a 10 now. Hugs.
Mariah

Quote from: lemons on April 04, 2015, 08:52:41 AM
Here is where the problem lies, though.  This is me only at 17, and you can see I'm distinctly bigger than the average girl.  So much so that it's juuuust outside of cis female ranges.  I don't even mean height either, just general size of my build like my head and torso.

I don't give in to height, I am 6'0 and I am fine with how I look. Terry Farrell is 6'0 also, and looks great. There are plenty of tall CIS women.

http://images5.fanpop.com/image/photos/30400000/Terry-Farrell-Becker-terry-farrell-30423179-1548-1919.jpg

Have you looked into waist training? That might give you the mid section you are looking for, its what I am doing atm.

Being six feet tall is not going to be the deciding factor in whether or not you pass. Have you ever seen a tall woman, and clocked her as trans just because she was tall? Being tall can make you stand out more, and you will look bigger than most other girls in pictures, but it's nothing that any other tall woman wouldn't experience. And when I look at your photos, I do see a woman. It's hard to see exactly what you look like, because some of the pictures are blurry or you are standing too far from the mirror to get a good look, but what I do see looks completely female to me. I understand you say you have trouble passing, and I believe you, but you have to understand that from what I can see, it's not your body that is the problem. As others have said, a change of hairstyle may help, since your current style is a little androgynous. Also, voice is very important too. A lot of girls who would be completely passable otherwise get clocked because of their voice. But please try to understand, no one is humoring you if they say you look passable in your pictures. You really do, and if you're not passing in real life, it may be something that goes beyond your appearance.

Quote from: akegia on April 04, 2015, 09:11:09 AM
I don't give in to height, I am 6'0 and I am fine with how I look. Terry Farrell is 6'0 also, and looks great. There are plenty of tall CIS women.

http://images5.fanpop.com/image/photos/30400000/Terry-Farrell-Becker-terry-farrell-30423179-1548-1919.jpg

Have you looked into waist training? That might give you the mid section you are looking for, its what I am doing atm.

As I'd said before, my height doesn't bother me....plenty of cis women models who are 6 feet tall as well as many trans women over 6 feet who I know have transitioned fine.

If your height isn't what bothers you, then what does. What about you are concerned about then if it isn't the height because your body doesn't look to big at all. The photo you posted with the other person only shows you being taller than someone else and everything else being similar in size.
Mariah