Hi, I would really need some advice. I've been with this person for a year, he was already out to me from the beginning and started hormones a few months after we started seeing each other. We are very open with communication and we can talk about pretty much everything, but the topic of trans and sex is something we have avoided. I didn't know much about trans before I met him and I've been trying to read a lot to understand what is going on with him. But there are still things I can't wrap my head around and I don't want to be ignorant. We've talked some about his transition, of course, but I can sense this is such a sensitive topic that we never really go in depth about it. He's just trans and I accept and respect him for who he is. Lately I tried to ask him some more questions because it has been in my mind and I want to be honest with him about everything. Basically, about how he is feeling. Then we hit on a really touchy topic and it ended in tears, so I will try to explain this and maybe someone who I don't have a very intimate relationship with can bring me some clarity. I would be really grateful.

And there is this one thing I still don't understand, about all these terms and ideas. In my understanding, gender is something socialized and something forced upon us from society. And just because I was born with a vulva, I was socialized to be a woman, and that's why my gender is a woman, so for me, it has everything to do with my genitals and not so much about anything else. I don't understand how you can separate these things. I've been brought up with feminist ideas and ever since I started thinking about feminism, it has been like: gender is bad, gender is hurtful, gender doesn't inherently exist, it is forced upon us and ideally, you should be able to do anything, be anyone, regardless of your body. It is really hard for me to understand, how you can be a gender, because in my thinking, gender is only there because you're brought up with it.

Now for my trans boyfriend, gender is of course really important. At the beginning he was already using a male name and male pronouns, so I assumed, he is a man and wants to be seen as such. When I asked him about it he said no, I'm not a man, I'm not a woman, but I'm more comfortable with masculine pronouns and a male coded body. So that's why he's doing the hormones. I'm very confused. Because he also does not want to be a man! And he's lived as a lesbian for many years, and has a feminist background. Basically he also agrees on the points, that gender is a construct and gender is hurtful. I just.. I really want to understand him.

Anyway we talked a little about it and it was a really horrible conversation. We have been doing so good for one year and of course, there has been some conflicts, but it was always solved and we can talk about it. Now he said, he doesn't know if it's possible for him to stay together with me. Because he thinks I can't see him for who he is, and he's hurt, and he's scared if I don't see him the same way he sees himself.

And I don't know what to do, because I tried, to ask questions so I can understand him better, and it completely went wrong and now he thinks I don't believe in his identity.

Also because I always identified as a lesbian, and lived as a lesbian... It's hard for me to change and say I am something else, because my sexuality is tied to my identity, after having lived as a lesbian for so long. Recently he said something, that he has a vagina, but he also has a penis, and it's important for him that I can see that too. I can't! It's too much! He still has the body of a woman, and I don't understand how that is not obvious. I can't pretend there is a penis when there is none. I don't understand how his genitals can be male. And I thought, since he also doesn't see himself as a trans man, rather a trans person, something in between.. that he doesn't mind that there are also female parts of him. The sex is amazing and he is not shy to talk about sex. But it's like, in sex, we are like lesbians. And I like that. And he knows it and has a problem with the fact, that for me, it's like lesbian sex. I don't know how it can be anything else though with two people with vulvas.

By the way. I'm working on trying to understand what it can mean to have a female body but not see it as a female body. This is where I am now in my thoughts and I realize there is a problem. It's not where I stop thinking and it's not where I think that that what I am thinking, are facts. I try to be as honest as possible. Please please help me understand better.

Hey Jacuzzi

Welcome to Susan's    Great to have you here - looking forward to seeing you around the forum.

I'll try to answer some of what I can but hopefully the guys here will be able to help out too. I guess the thing about gender roles is that, yes most of it is socialised (dress, behaviour, all that stuff) but for many trans people gender goes much deeper and we identify strongly as a gender (not a gender role) different from that which we were assigned at birth simply because of our genitals. Why? That's the one million dollar question, maybe our brains are wired differently who can say. But it is usually the cause of a lot of conflict and confusion within our identity and presentation and even relationships. Transition and hormones can help but not always. Gender isn't just hard and fast male/female but a gradient and and some people identify somewhere along that line. Often such people may be non-binary transgender, possibly your boyfriend falls somewhere in that spectrum I can't really say. In any relationship it needs to be a two way discussion, you need your needs met as much as he does - if you need something discussed and he doesn't it is clearly going to cause stress in the relationship, perhaps a counsellor might be of some assistance? I hope you are able to find some good answers here.

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Cheers

Grace

You could look up the following resources for a few thoughts:

you could look up the genderbread person. The differences between gender identity, gender expression, attraction etc are explained there.
You can click on the picture and watch it zoomed to read the smaller prints.

And you might look up a brochure for the british NHS called "doh-transgender-experiences.pdf" . Only thing I would disagree with is page 7, where they state stress, instead many experience relief.
It states that being trans has some biological connections, which is imo socially a bit better acceptable, and it might help with acceptance.

And there is a website called gayteens dot about dot com where there is a quiz "am_i_trans.htm" . It might help you with a few thoughts, they state a few opinions of others, and explain a few terms. And it might help by showing what some people feel.
And they don't have to feel male all the time. A question would be would they prefer a more male body to be more happy ?

Well its a big spectrum, for example from androgynous to full transition...

Concerning gender, some people feel gender neutral, some feel both male and female, thats the literal translation of androgynous...
and its a process, it might take them some time to find out what they want... well if they are on hormones its possible they are well on the way...

when on hormones, its possible his clit expands some in size, for example to one or two inches, to what some people refer to as penis.
It might be somewhat difficult for them to talk about it because it might trigger disphoria.

Concerning talking, well its up to you...
Well its important to them to be accepted... it might be difficult for them to explain emotions etc, but it might help...
its up to you but you might talk about it, and you might tell him that you respect his position...

and well, you also have your legitimate needs, and you should watch out for yourself and keep yourself nurtured... possibly with the help of a therapist...

You could think about seeing a therapist helping you through the process.
And you could think about either pair therapy, or him choosing a therapist as well...
a gender therapist, to guide them through the process...
there might be counseling available at plannedparenthood or at lgbt centers, and there might be support groups...

I'd say just take the time you need to understand and sort out your feelings...
and communicate, not in a reproachful way but in a calm way, and stating needs etc...

and if you want to talk to someone in person you can call one of those for example, people are there to help and give advice (there are many others):
glnh dot org/talkline/ (this is the national lgbt youth helpline)


hugs

QuoteBy the way. I'm working on trying to understand what it can mean to have a female body but not see it as a female body. This is where I am now in my thoughts and I realize there is a problem. It's not where I stop thinking and it's not where I think that that what I am thinking, are facts. I try to be as honest as possible. Please please help me understand better.

I think I might be able to help with this one.  I can't be sure that I am really reading your situation correctly because I do not know really, but I might be able to relate from my slightly different situation.  In my relationship, I am transitioning  from male to female and my wife is cis female.  The one thing that helps make it work is that, despite the fact that I have a male body, she sees me as female.  I don't know if this is the case, but a trans person typically doesn't mentally see themselves the same way they look in the mirror.  I think it might help to try to understand how they would wish to express themselves if they could.  Although I have a male body, I feel like my body is female.  I completely acknowledge and accept the fact that my body does not line up with how it feels to me; however, I dislike the fact that it does not line up and seek to change my body so that it fits the mental picture of how I wish to express myself. 

I hope this helps.

Gender is not a social construct. I see this said continually and I have no clue where it comes from. Gender is our sense of self, it is who we are. It has nothing to do with society. Gender =/= Gender Roles or Gender Expression. They are completely different things. Roles, how we present and express ourselves, what is masculine and feminine, are social constructs. Gender itself is not. It is biological in origin, otherwise how could trans people exist? If it was about society then we would 'identify' with whatever it told us we were (based on socialisation, body, and roles/expression they can force onto us). Male and female brains are not the same. There are anatomical differences between them. We are wired to one or the other (both or neither in some cases). That is our sense of gender, not society. It is not some made up construct. It has a real basis. Assigned gender is something that is forced on us based on how we look (basically what genitals does the baby have). It is wrong to do that imo. Regardless of that we still know who we are. Our real gender is not forced on us

If you identify as female its because your mind is female, its telling you thats what it is. You bring it down to I have x so I must be y. Common thing cis people do because they are so oblivious to the fact gender is in the brain. They dont get it because their brain aligns with their body. It never reaches conscious level so you have no idea why you actually are that gender other than to assign it down to a body part. With us it cant be more obvious most of the time that that isnt the case. Knew from age 3 I was male. What other people thought and how I looked was irrelevant to that. I knew. My brain was continually informing me of the fact something was wrong. I was being called the wrong things and being seen as something I wasnt. At that age I had no idea boys and girls had different bodies anatomically yet I still knew there should be something in my pants. How could I have known that when I didnt even know about it? My head was just telling me I was wrong. That is our sense of self. Not what parts we have or what is forced on us. If your head aligns then you are oblivious to it because you dont need to think about it ever. If you needed to then you would know about it

Gender is not about genitals. It has nothing to do with it. People are people, not walking genitals. To label us solely on one part we have I think is inheritantly wrong. There are cis women born without vaginas, ovaries, a uterus, with XY chromosomes. They are still women. There are cis men born without a penis, testicles, XX chromosomes.. They are still men. The important thing is to challenge what we are brainwashed to believe. Penis = man, vagina = woman. Completely wrong. So many people are excluded based on these stupid normative ideas. Different people exist who dont fit these little boxes, it doesnt mean we are invalid because we dont. If you are having sex with a man then it is not 'lesbian sex'. I would find that very offensive, it is somewhat invalidating who he is. What genitals he has is irrelevant to who/what he is. He is still a man if thats what he is. If he calls his genitals a penis then thats what it is. We do things that are comfortable for us because language can be severely triggering for us and invalidating. On a related note, it isnt even wrong to call it a penis. A clit (which grows on T) is just an underdeveloped penis. They are related structures. When it grows on T it looks exactly like a penis, just smaller in size. If he wants to call it that then thats what it is, its obviously what he feels comfortable referring to it as

Now if hes saying he isnt a man but wants a male body, that happens too. There are more than 2 genders. He might find non binary is more fitting for him. NB people can present as a typical gender but not identify as one. They can also want their body to look a certain way but that doesnt mean they are a man because they look like one. There are numerous identities people can fall into outside the binary. Both, neither, somewhere inbetween. If he isnt male or female (though uses male pronouns and seems to want a male body) then he can fall outwith the binary. I am binary male myself so I personally dont understand non binary but I still respect them for who they are. You dont have to completely understand something to respect someone and do what is best for them

Also its good you are here to learn and better understand and question the things we are imposed with from society. Gender issues seriously need to be taught about in school. Never ceases to amaze me how little people actually know about it. That is also the fault of society, enforcing a false sense of 'normality' and ignoring the existence of anything else. Biology is also poorly taught enforcing the same ideals and teaching it one sided. Everything I know I've had to learn myself to get away from the rubbish we are taught. I never blindly accept anything Im told. Always question it

Its not impossible for cis people to understand this stuff. I have a cis gf and her understanding is on par with my own. She accepts completely and has always understood me. She knows I hate my body but she only sees me as I really am, despite what I have or dont have

Here's a poem on the issue of seeing someone as their preferred gender...I liked it and wanted to share it.
http://genderqueerchicago.blogspot.com/2011/02/how-to-make-love-to-trans-person.html?m=1