Probably a strange question.  I'm in discussions with the hospital I work at in Chicago about setting up a Transgender Healthcare Program. One of the questions that has come up is the number of potential clients/patients. Does anybody know where I might find a reasonable estimate of the number of potential clients, say in the Illinois, Wisconsin, Indiana area. Unfortunately it wouldn't be for everybody, but with more insurances covering TG Health Services, and given our location,  it is a natural fit. The question is the number of potential clients.

I know there was a California study that estimated the TG population at .3% splitting the difference between .1% and .5%, and another study estimated the US transgender population at about 700,000 out of 319 million, also gives a .2% number. But is that transitioned, transitioning or just self-identifying.

Any thoughts or info would be helpful.

Thanks!

I don't think anyone knows for sure.  There are and awful lot of people out there who are trans, but have not admitted it to themselves yet and there are plenty of us who may be stealth and not counted.  My gender therapist claims the number is as high as 3-5% total.  I don't think we'll get accurate numbers until society finds a way to accept us and people are both informed and encouraged to be themselves.

you'd find more trans people in states like NY, California, as well as southern, very religious states like georgia. from what I've observe, a lot of trans people come from very anti gay, very religious families. forgive me if I get anything wrong, I wish not to trouble, I'm only stating what I've seen and heard

Quote from: DrummerGirl on April 09, 2015, 03:16:50 PM
I don't think anyone knows for sure.  There are and awful lot of people out there who are trans, but have not admitted it to themselves yet and there are plenty of us who may be stealth and not counted.  My gender therapist claims the number is as high as 3-5% total.  I don't think we'll get accurate numbers until society finds a way to accept us and people are both informed and encouraged to be themselves.

***TW- suicide***








We can never know the true number because we will never be able to ask all the people who succeeded at committing suicide why it was that they did it.  I'm guessing that being transgender in an environment where it is perceived to be absolutely unacceptable isn't going to end well the majority of the time.  I'd love to see the real numbers for leading causes of suicide, because I suspect that being transgender is near the top of that list.

Excellent point Jill.  <moment of silence>

Quote from: traci_k on April 09, 2015, 03:02:43 PM
Probably a strange question.  I'm in discussions with the hospital I work at in Chicago about setting up a Transgender Healthcare Program. One of the questions that has come up is the number of potential clients/patients. Does anybody know where I might find a reasonable estimate of the number of potential clients, say in the Illinois, Wisconsin, Indiana area. Unfortunately it wouldn't be for everybody, but with more insurances covering TG Health Services, and given our location,  it is a natural fit. The question is the number of potential clients.

I know there was a California study that estimated the TG population at .3% splitting the difference between .1% and .5%, and another study estimated the US transgender population at about 700,000 out of 319 million, also gives a .2% number. But is that transitioned, transitioning or just self-identifying.

Any thoughts or info would be helpful.

Thanks!

It may be helpful to contact clinics that follow the informed consent model in other large cities (NYC, San Fran, DC, LA, etc.). Presumably the lack of barriers to accessing healthcare combined with the lower cost or sliding scale options that most of these clinics have would lead to a higher number of trans folks coming through to get care. It would at least give you a ballpark number to work with. Perhaps on the higher end.

I know the clinic I go to is an LGBT-focused operation with a heavy emphasis on AIDs treatment and care. It also caters to the needs of low-income communities and non-English speakers. I'm not sure they publish any statistics about their patient base, but they may be willing to talk to another healthcare entity about the percentage of patients receiving transgender-related care.

Quote from: traci_k on April 09, 2015, 03:02:43 PM
Probably a strange question.  I'm in discussions with the hospital I work at in Chicago about setting up a Transgender Healthcare Program. One of the questions that has come up is the number of potential clients/patients. Does anybody know where I might find a reasonable estimate of the number of potential clients, say in the Illinois, Wisconsin, Indiana area. Unfortunately it wouldn't be for everybody, but with more insurances covering TG Health Services, and given our location,  it is a natural fit. The question is the number of potential clients.

I know there was a California study that estimated the TG population at .3% splitting the difference between .1% and .5%, and another study estimated the US transgender population at about 700,000 out of 319 million, also gives a .2% number. But is that transitioned, transitioning or just self-identifying.

Any thoughts or info would be helpful.

Thanks!

Traci, i believe that is the right range for transsexuals seeking treatment, at least traditionally when the data was collected. However....

Quote from: DrummerGirl on April 09, 2015, 03:16:50 PM
I don't think anyone knows for sure.  There are and awful lot of people out there who are trans, but have not admitted it to themselves yet and there are plenty of us who may be stealth and not counted.  My gender therapist claims the number is as high as 3-5% total.  I don't think we'll get accurate numbers until society finds a way to accept us and people are both informed and encouraged to be themselves.

I've always heard one man out of twenty crossdresses, boom, 5% on the money!

Quote from: Jill F on April 09, 2015, 03:29:02 PM
***TW- suicide***








We can never know the true number because we will never be able to ask all the people who succeeded at committing suicide why it was that they did it.  I'm guessing that being transgender in an environment where it is perceived to be absolutely unacceptable isn't going to end well the majority of the time.  I'd love to see the real numbers for leading causes of suicide, because I suspect that being transgender is near the top of that list.

I can add some numbers from India here.

According to Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third_gender#India), "The Hijra of India are probably the most well known and populous third sex type in the modern world – Mumbai-based community health organization The Humsafar Trust estimates there are between 5 and 6 million hijras in India."
Another source http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/First-count-of-third-gender-in-census-4-9-lakh/articleshow/35741613.cms states that the Indian census counted 490,000 'third gender' people, though activists estimate it to be 6-7 times higher.
So both sources give estimates of 3-6 million if you believe those who actually work with the community.

These numbers only reflect those who run away from home to live in a highly ostracized community with very little or no access to jobs, education or public services.
And it is only MtFs who identify as 'third gender', not male or female.
Add those who still identify as either male or female.
Then add those who manage to transition medically and remain stealth, both MtF and FtM, though these numbers may not be high given the shortage of such medical facilities in India.
Then those who identify somewhere else on the LGBT spectrum but may also be trans, including crossdressers.
Then the presumably large numbers of questioning or closeted ones, and it won't be surprising if the proportion is 3-5% here as well.

The most complete peer reviewed recent study ( I can send you the reference) was in 2013 in NZ in adolescents. 1.7% identified as a gender naab, a further 2% were unsure what their gender ID was.

Our clinics are working on about 2%. It stands up against referrals since 2005.

Since BEPA became a common contaminant in plastics, which is an estrogen analogue not removed by the placenta, the number of MtF trans people has increased. There is NO proof that this is a cause.

Regardless of what stat's there may be, there are many people who are to embarrassed or afraid to say publically or in a survey that they are anything other than CIS gendered, although that is changing these days.

I wouldn't until recently.

L Katy

Well, it's a far cry from the 1 in 20,000 number that was used officially for about 30 years as reported by our beloved Johns Hopkins University based on the number of people getting SRS.

A lot depends on what you're trying to measure. The number of people who have questioned or do question gender is much higher than the number of people who feel driven to transition, which is higher than the number people who actually do transition, which is higher than the number of people who take medical steps such as HRT or surgery.

Quote from: suzifrommd on April 10, 2015, 06:40:50 AM
Well, it's a far cry from the 1 in 20,000 number that was used officially for about 30 years as reported by our beloved Johns Hopkins University based on the number of people getting SRS.

A lot depends on what you're trying to measure. The number of people who have questioned or do question gender is much higher than the number of people who feel driven to transition, which is higher than the number people who actually do transition, which is higher than the number of people who take medical steps such as HRT or surgery.

Which is the reason we cannot get good stats!

Quote from: suzifrommd on April 10, 2015, 06:40:50 AM
Well, it's a far cry from the 1 in 20,000 number that was used officially for about 30 years as reported by our beloved Johns Hopkins University based on the number of people getting SRS.

A lot depends on what you're trying to measure. The number of people who have questioned or do question gender is much higher than the number of people who feel driven to transition, which is higher than the number people who actually do transition, which is higher than the number of people who take medical steps such as HRT or surgery.

The 490,000 quoted above (with all its problems) out of a population of 600 million leads to 1 in 1,225 which is more than 16 times that JHU estimate.
And these are often people who undergo dangerous rudimentary procedures.
Also, here is how Lynn Conway estimated the numbers. http://ai.eecs.umich.edu/people/conway/TS/TS-II.html#anchor317821

Now estimates might be a little more to the truth 

L Katy 

I think Max had the right idea about contacting other cities/hospitals about their programs. Since it's in Chicago you could also contact the Howard Brown Center since they do a lot of health care for tg folks. 

I'm in Chicago, too, so you can count me! [emoji1]  Seriously, I'd love to hear more about this program if it gets going.  Good luck!

Thanks girls for all the replies and will let everyone know if we move forward with the program.  My early estimates were the .3%, but now that Cindy mentioned the NZ study. I do recall there was a more recent study where adolescents identified as gender non-conforming at about the 2% level also.

I agree also Cindy with the xenoestrogens so many pesticides, herbicides, BPA have very powerful estrogenic effects that I do think chemical toxicity may be contributing to an increase in MtF, although not proven< in males. Don't forget that after WWII there was a tremendous increase in the development of chemicals, not to mention that many of us older gals may be due to DES. The self reporting study on DES was that about one third of DES Sons were reporting gender issues. Combine that with the brain studies where MtF and FtM show a brain structure more closely aligned with their identified gender and I think we're getting on to something. Whatever the cause, GD NEEDS to be treated because we are losing faring too many people to suicide. There was just another one in California on Apr 2 and the story mentioned another that didn't get the national coverage as Leelah.

And Jill, I think you are right about GD being a leading cause, the national average for suicide attempts is much less than the 40% reported for transfolk. All in all it's a worldwide tragedy that so many lives get lost needlessly.

Chigirl -yes, I've been to Howard Brown and they have a great program there with the informed consent. For some of us older girls, I'd prefer to be monitored by an endocrinologist, plus suggesting the program is a little self-serving, if the hospital instituted such a program, the hospital would probably have to include TG Healthcare in their Insurance. And not to mention that Dr Loren Schecter who did the first Medicare covered surgery is up here on the North Side. But given our locale, a hospital based program, especially if we could recruit a good cosmetic surgeon would be a great asset to the people in the area.

Thanks girls to all who responded!

Hugs!

Quote from: traci_k on April 10, 2015, 09:47:59 AM

I agree also Cindy with the xenoestrogens so many pesticides, herbicides, BPA have very powerful estrogenic effects that I do think chemical toxicity may be contributing to an increase in MtF, although not proven< in males. Don't forget that after WWII there was a tremendous increase in the development of chemicals, not to mention that many of us older gals may be due to DES.

I really believe this too.  When you consider the quantity of hormone disrupting chemicals now in the environment, it shouldn't surprise anyone that humans are affected by this. 

Thanks for starting this thread Traci, very interesting,
Paige

I think it's a great idea.  I'd love to see something like this in Chicago as I too would prefer an endo. 

Quote from: suzifrommd on April 10, 2015, 06:40:50 AM
Well, it's a far cry from the 1 in 20,000 number that was used officially for about 30 years as reported by our beloved Johns Hopkins University based on the number of people getting SRS.

Is this the same Johns Hopkins whose department of psychiatry is run by an evangelist for transphobia (Dr. Paul McHugh)?

Based on the stories I've heard about it, I'm surprised they got even 1 in 20,000.

Quote from: Asche on April 10, 2015, 11:46:01 AM
Is this the same Johns Hopkins whose department of psychiatry is run by an evangelist for transphobia (Dr. Paul McHugh)?

Based on the stories I've heard about it, I'm surprised they got even 1 in 20,000.

Well, Paul McHugh no longer runs it, (though he still has an office there). I've had dealings with them. I had a horrible experience with the services they provide trans people, so McHugh's absence hasn't improved things much.