Quote from: Serena ♡ on April 18, 2015, 07:57:30 AM
I do self medicate too, and I agree it's not a good thing to do, and hopefully only temporary for a short amount of time for me, I really wish to see an endo, therapist, etc.. But I can't at the moment... I've not been on hrt long enough, but however  I must say that my voice is getting somewhat clearer, sometimes I find it hard to make my voice sound more masculine without sounding weird.

It must be some other cause because HRT has no effect on ones voice. I wish it did!

i have the ability to either lower my voice or make my voice sound higher. people keep asking me to talk in my real voice because apparently it sounds "sexy"

Quote from: CB on April 18, 2015, 10:22:12 AM
It must be some other cause because HRT has no effect on ones voice. I wish it did!

That's not true, myself and other girls on youtube will disagree with you, and I didn't say that my voice got super high, but I don't have a particularly low voice to begin with, and I said it sounds clearer.

Quote from: CB on April 18, 2015, 10:22:12 AM
It must be some other cause because HRT has no effect on ones voice. I wish it did!

My voice has become much more feminine without any form of voice training. I'm not saying that HRT is the absolute cause, but I believe it has an effect.

Quote from: Serena ♡ on April 18, 2015, 10:50:41 AM
That's not true, myself and other girls on youtube will disagree with you, and I didn't say that my voice got super high, but I don't have a particularly low voice to begin with, and I said it sounds clearer.

OK I willing to be proved wrong then. Can you point me towards any clinical evidence that supports this? I am not aware of any myself. Are you sure it's not a placebo effect resulting from increased confidence etc?

Actually I'm convinced I feel the cold a bit more now.

Quote from: Jenna Marie on April 18, 2015, 09:10:58 AM
(I also started on an endo-supervised very low dose, so low some would say it's ineffective... and at the 3-month checkup I was showing signs of liver damage. I understand why people self-medicate, but my endo said if I had, the first symptom that something was wrong in my case might have been liver failure.)

If it was ethinyl estradiol or even Premarin, I wouldn't be surprised. Even at low doses. No doctor should ever prescribe this to any of us given the safer alternatives, IMHO. What were the signs of liver damage? Do you remember?

Quote from: CB on April 18, 2015, 10:22:12 AM
It must be some other cause because HRT has no effect on ones voice. I wish it did!

I agree. +1. Absolutely no effect since vocal cords cannot shrink in the presence of E. Only the lack of T (low T) prevents them from increasing (thickening and getting longer) too much and producing a "male" sound (lower pitch and resonance).

Kay : It was Climara patch, within the mid-range of what's given to menopausal cis women. I'd never agree to be put on Premarin (I've actually refused) or ethinyl estradiol for exactly that reason; I've worked as a medical librarian, so I'm well aware of the risks.

As for the rest of it, last time you and I talked about this I did explain further and you continued to insist that my doctor and endo and labs were all wrong/misinterpreted because it was impossible for my E dose to have caused liver problems, so I'm happy to simply stipulate that we don't agree but I trust my own medical professionals.

Is just strange I think because low dose Climara would deliver the estradiol right into the blood and since the dose is low, there would be very little going through the liver. Also, if such low levels of estradiol were harmful to the liver, then all ciswomen around the globe (or, at the very least, many of them, given individual differences)  should be suffering liver complications. I'm not a doctor but it seems to me, based on common sense, that liver complications were caused by something entirely different.

Quote from: CB on April 18, 2015, 12:32:13 PM
OK I willing to be proved wrong then. Can you point me towards any clinical evidence that supports this? I am not aware of any myself. Are you sure it's not a placebo effect resulting from increased confidence etc?

I'm pretty sure it's in the papers of changes you need to sign before getting hormones to your endo, or something, that your voice might change, it's definitely something that depends on the person, and it might only be a small change. I also know a lot of other trans youtubers who notice the change as well. If you don't see or don't want to believe me, I don't care, I'm not getting anything from proving you wrong.

Quote from: ClaireIvene on April 17, 2015, 09:17:11 PM
Thought this would be an interesting topic... hope I'm right. Anyway anyone think their body transitioned odd or was it a bit different than you expected and were you concerned about the new happenings with your body etc. For me I am really loving my hrt effects for the most part. After 1 month and 3 weeks of Spirono I already had fat redistribution. Now after 1 week of low dose estradiol and 3 days medium dose estradiol I have a fairly feminine figure already... due too oddly but pleasantly wide pelvis as a birth male. As for body hair, it has decreased significantly in most places ie legs, stomach especially upper waist and ribs, hair in-between legs and on rear is lower etc. However, my arm hair and some chest hairs are enjoying their stay still though chest hair is lower there are still some dark horrible ones lingering. And my arm hair is lighter and thinner but it is like a forest now the density is greater than it was without estrogen though each hair is lighter and thinner... odd?

In any case I am happy but some things are just weird and unexpected.

How about you all?

my arm hair lighter, thinner but I had a lot for a female.
I now wax it

Quote from: Serena ♡ on April 18, 2015, 11:01:04 PM
I'm pretty sure it's in the papers of changes you need to sign before getting hormones to your endo, or something, that your voice might change, it's definitely something that depends on the person, and it might only be a small change. I also know a lot of other trans youtubers who notice the change as well. If you don't see or don't want to believe me, I don't care, I'm not getting anything from proving you wrong.

I was told that erectile dysfunction and loss of libido would happen when I started hormones - still waiting for either to happen.. Actually, my estrogen warns that I might have heavier than normal periods or spotting..  My point? Just because it's on some list, doesn't mean it will happen or is even true.

There is zero medical evidence to suggest that estrogen causes any change to the vocal chords. What I will suggest is that hormones are a confidence booster and being more confident in who you are can manifest in many ways..

As for youtubers, the reason I no longer have any real trust or belief in them is that I've seen one too many proved fake, either partly or entirely. Results from hormones claimed by the person to have taken 6 months, you find out actually took 3 years. And other stuff like that.. It's very easy to say whatever you like with some cleverly edited video and no medical evidence.

I just posted my message and it actually did not post... very mad it was like 2 paragraphs long grrrrr!! Well, not posting that message again but I simply wanted to state that voice can be very slightly feminized by estrogen alone by way of raising the placement of the adams apple as it does so slightly. Though, yes, of course voice training has to be done for any reasonable convincing female voice.

Thanks for sharing that I'm not alone on that damn arm hair thing Nocole, I wonder if estrogen feeds arm hair just like testosterone does.

Quote from: ClaireIvene on April 19, 2015, 01:44:12 AM
I just posted my message and it actually did not post... very mad it was like 2 paragraphs long grrrrr!! Well, not posting that message again but I simply wanted to state that voice can be very slightly feminized by estrogen alone by way of raising the placement of the adams apple as it does so slightly. Though, yes, of course voice training has to be done for any reasonable convincing female voice.

Thanks for sharing that I'm not alone on that damn arm hair thing Nocole, I wonder if estrogen feeds arm hair just like testosterone does.

Got any actual science to support this? I've not seen any and anecdotal evidence doesn't count.

My own experiences is enough for me. Since I'm not being paid to delve scientifically and experiment with control and non control groups I won't bother nor have the means to provide evidence for my claims. Albeit, convincing evidence of the contrary is also not going to be brought forth as I foresee it.

 

I have had enough of bickering.

Address the questions from the OP civilly or I shall lock.

There are replies here that I can moderate under ToS.

I suggest posters read the ToS which you are legally bound to by being accepted as members of this site.

Cindy
Forum Admin

Ok, point taken Cindy. 

Thank you.

No problem, this is after all supposed to be a friendly place for us to relax on from the world anyway.

I have an odd transition effect or one I did not know pre HRT. Mt skin is thinner. This is an issue on my arms because I have a lot of scars on my arms. When I am in the sun and slightly tan the scars become very noticeable.