I was recently clocked and it shook Evelyn's foundation a bit - like, mebe to the core. So I sit here thinking, how will I navigate tough real life tests such as a visit to the womens spa, a visit to victoria secret or heck even a date with an experienced and attractive hetero man? (not that I'm entertaining doing that btw, lez!)

If I'm to be assimilated in CIS society as a deep stealth trans woman then I know any odd looks, signs of puzzlement, sly glances, or whispering etc. would be a warning sign that I need to reassess 'stealth' and be more brutally honest with myself. I would also have to ask friends and family to be totally honest about a few things about my presentation.

So drop the intimate spaces altogether? How should I reconcile my 'femininity' and being "stealth" if I can't (edit) pass confidently in those places?

Perhaps start by not thinking that you're trespassing?

If it's brutal honesty that you want, you may have to face the fact that you'll never completely be able to go stealth. How comfortable you are with that thought in regard to sharing spaces traditionally reserved for women may help you arrive at the answers you seek.

If your blending very well (and from your posts I would say that you do) then confidence goes a long way. I've been to intimate female places (Women's locker rooms, dressing rooms, though never changed all the way in front of another woman other than my wife) and I haven't had any issues. Many times our minds think the worse. Someone is staring at you and you think your clocked, but your not. I once had one woman star at me in the women's restroom while I was washing my hands at the sink. She didn't clock me, but she was suspicious due to my height of 6'7". The only reason I knew for sure was that my wife an I caught up to her from behind as she was meeting another woman. I overheard her say:  "There was this extremely tall woman in the bathroom and I know it wasn't a guy because she didn't have an Adam's Apple. I've never seen a woman that tall before in person."

After some confidence you stop worrying about it so much. I've seen a lot of cis-women with more masculine features than myself. We are women period and there is nothing wrong with being in those spaces. (With some precautions and caveats for those of us pre SRS or those not wanting SRS.)

Well here's the thing. Can we define what stealth is? I've seen varying opinions of what this means and now even I'm confused. To me being "stealth" means passing as a woman unquestionably. To others, completely passing has different meanings.

For instance, take a look at the comments in this youtube video


Just a few comments down



Is this considered stealthy enough presentation to pass in intimate female spaces? Everyone says she's passing. Am I being too hard on myself and paranoid?

Don't drop life. Drop stealth instead.

Yeah I'm beginning to think stealth is unachievable for a large % of post puberty transitioners like myself. I started hormones LATE. So I need to be honest with myself. LoL.

So F'it. =\

Hi.

Don't try and fool people  simple as .

okay im known by many 1000s of people front line detail well known and meet many 100,s of people and talk to many 100,s and been seen by our people in New Zealand

okay ,.... I did not hide who I was  and  I was known over night through TVNZ , could not have done it better than that and had people come up to me and talk . that's being well known ,

Okay I know you wont wont  to do that , my profile,s state what I am who I am and all info needed so no one can ever say I lied to them so if I go on a date with some one they will know about my self and body  if they then wont a relastionship then theres no surprises ,

Why hide in the first place , granted im a female  and not a complete one my bodys different still female no matter what , people accept who I am and the way I am because I made sure everyone knew ,  why,   well no comebacks.... ever .....

if you have to hide who you are , then  look at are you sure of your self  confident in who you are  and selfworth of being you  have the confidence to stand in front of 1000,s of people and say with out a doubt  this..... IS.... who I am and the confidence to live being you .

I work with 100,s of people and at  very close quarters and get on well with people  and we talk about very personal details about our selfs you wont with men ,

in the real world of women  maybe I am and theres no doubt,s about it ,

Really....... this is about acceptance , and your not sure you will be .

Iv pretty much out lined what you ...can ...do  you give of your self you join groups  you work hard and help when asked and make sure you join in ,

AND...... no backing away and say oh I cant do this or that , it wont work you get stuck in and become a part of those people and get accepted ,

Okay ..... maybe not to day or next week or next month or maybe a year , what you have to do is be there at every meeting  ...get it .....its the  BEING....THERE....

get known get involved and have a fantastic time as well,

you wont to know something I never hid I was open and theres nothing others don't know about myself and im very involved  and well accepted .  why do you think I was told im on 3 commitees  because they wont me with them and to work with them .....okay..... im done , I wish you well ,

...noeleena...

stealth to me is not having food thrown at me while sitting in a restaurant

^^ Well. LoL! Steph I do think you're great yes I'd sit with you.

Quote from: Echo Eve on April 20, 2015, 12:27:48 AM
Perhaps start by not thinking that you're trespassing?

This...

thanks we can share some figs at Starbucks

Well, I'm not against stealth because it's unacheivable. Fairly often it can be achieved.

I'm against it because it's like living with a skeleton in one's closet - all over again.

Quote from: noeleena on April 20, 2015, 12:54:45 AM
Hi.

Don't try and fool people  simple as .

okay im known by many 1000s of people front line detail well known and meet many 100,s of people and talk to many 100,s and been seen by our people in New Zealand

okay ,.... I did not hide who I was  and  I was known over night through TVNZ , could not have done it better than that and had people come up to me and talk . that's being well known ,

Okay I know you wont wont  to do that , my profile,s state what I am who I am and all info needed so no one can ever say I lied to them so if I go on a date with some one they will know about my self and body  if they then wont a relastionship then theres no surprises ,

Why hide in the first place , granted im a female  and not a complete one my bodys different still female no matter what , people accept who I am and the way I am because I made sure everyone knew ,  why,   well no comebacks.... ever .....

if you have to hide who you are , then  look at are you sure of your self  confident in who you are  and selfworth of being you  have the confidence to stand in front of 1000,s of people and say with out a doubt  this..... IS.... who I am and the confidence to live being you .

I work with 100,s of people and at  very close quarters and get on well with people  and we talk about very personal details about our selfs you wont with men ,

in the real world of women  maybe I am and theres no doubt,s about it ,

Really....... this is about acceptance , and your not sure you will be .

Iv pretty much out lined what you ...can ...do  you give of your self you join groups  you work hard and help when asked and make sure you join in ,

AND...... no backing away and say oh I cant do this or that , it wont work you get stuck in and become a part of those people and get accepted ,

Okay ..... maybe not to day or next week or next month or maybe a year , what you have to do is be there at every meeting  ...get it .....its the  BEING....THERE....

get known get involved and have a fantastic time as well,

you wont to know something I never hid I was open and theres nothing others don't know about myself and im very involved  and well accepted .  why do you think I was told im on 3 commitees  because they wont me with them and to work with them .....okay..... im done , I wish you well ,

...noeleena...

I'm not sure I understand what you're saying here... self affirmations of being female is a lot different from having your feminine being tested in spaces where exclusive woman's intimate privacy is enforced.

Quote from: Evelyn K on April 20, 2015, 12:35:05 AM
Well here's the thing. Can we define what stealth is? I've seen varying opinions of what this means and now even I'm confused. To me being "stealth" means passing as a woman unquestionably. To others, completely passing has different meanings.

For instance, take a look at the comments in this youtube video


Just a few comments down



Is this considered stealthy enough presentation to pass in intimate female spaces? Everyone says she's passing. Am I being too hard on myself and paranoid?

She blends in the video but there are things that I would clock her at because I am trans, but most people would not. For example her walk. Her was was a little on the masculine side, but there are cis-woman that walk like that. My cis-wife being one of them, has been questioned about her femininity about that. Not to say anyone has ever though she was trans, but certainly enough to question her femininity and assume she is slightly butch or a lesbian. This isn't so much a transgender woman issues and it is a women's issue in that a woman is suppose to walk or act a certain way in society. There is a fine line here on pressure of woman in general that is borderline sexists. If we are not careful we can step over that line trying to say who blends and who doesn't. I think blend is a better word than stealth there have been a lot women (cis and trans) that have had their womanhood questioned by society. I do think every transgender woman can reach that state to a good degree. Some of us in very little time on HRT and others takes years.

^^^ To me it's the forced masculine walk, height, facial features, clothes that seems way out of place and the hulking musculature. But that's just Evelyn's opinion...

Quote from: Evelyn K on April 19, 2015, 11:59:55 PM
I was recently clocked and it shook Evelyn's foundation a bit - like, mebe to the core. So I sit here thinking, how will I navigate real life tough tests such as a visit to the womens spa, a visit to victoria secret or heck even a date with an experienced and attractive hetero man? (not that I'm entertaining doing that btw, lez!)

If I'm to be assimilated in CIS society as a deep stealth trans woman then I know any odd looks, signs of puzzlement, sly glances, or whispering etc. would be a warning sign that I need to reassess 'stealth' and be more brutally honest with myself. I would also have to ask friends and family to be totally honest about a few things about my presentation.

Stealth is blending in and hiding your past. It's not for me.

QuoteSo drop the intimate spaces altogether? How should I reconcile my 'femininity' and being "stealth" if I can't tresspass confidently in those places?

If you feel you are trespassing, there's the issue. I'm a woman and therefore belong in those spaces. I'm not trespassing, I'm just a woman going about her business. Maybe have a look at why you feel like a trespasser.

Yeah mebe tresspass wasn't a good word to kick off the topic. I remember it being used fondly in the movie An Affair To Remember when Terry McKay said "Thank you for letting me tresspass..." to the little grandmother speaking of her french garden villa.

Edited it

Quote from: Evelyn K on April 20, 2015, 01:16:57 AM
To me it's the forced masculine walk, facial features and the hulking musculature. But that's just Evelyn's opinion...

I agree and most of that could be taken care of by adjusting a few things. Not wearing such high heels to make walking seem less forced. A different style dress to de-emphasize shoulders, etc. Also many of those things get better over time and practice. Also dressing too feminine can put a larger bullseye on masculine features. If she dressed more like other women her age in the mall she would blend a lot better.

Being stealth does not necessarily mean that you will be happier.
In my case, honesty always gives me more freedom.
Yes. I always use women's public bathroom, but this does not mean that I am in stealth. Just for convenience.
I usually interact with my close friends, colleagues and students, all of whom know very well who I am.
I avoid any approach by strangers in the street. I do not reply to any comment from them.

barbie~~

Quote from: barbie on April 20, 2015, 01:32:35 AM
Being stealth does not necessarily mean that you will be happier.

In my case, honesty always gives me more freedom.

Contextually, how are you using the word "honesty", what are you referring to?