ok so this is going to be another pretty negative post and it has like no real proper punctuation (aint nobody got time for that) so beware...anyways I have noticed something and I don't know if all the people who have accomplished all these things as trans women are just stealth post ops who never talk about being trans online or in life or if maybe ive noticed something sad but true...for one, very few trans women have careers especially successful careers... im not saying jobs im saying careers where there fulltime and making good money and established where they got the career AFTER they transitioned or went full time...not they had it as a man and got lucky and were able to keep the job.... very few trans woman are married... im not talking married to someone they were already married with before transition... I mean someone they met after, dated, and married... I rarely hear of trans women meeting a heterosexual or even bisexual guy or a lesbian trans woman meeting a lesbian woman and eventually marrying....if there not fully passable even less....if there pre op even less... I almost never hear of trans women with a family they created after transition....not they had kids and then transitioned... im saying they transitioned, got married and got kids either through adoption, surrogacy, or perhaps even naturally in the case of a lesbian and a trans woman... lastly I rarely see trans women who have been transitioned(and stayed transitioned) for more than a couple years and where happy, fulfilled and productive... I really hope no one takes offense at all to any of this especially this next part as im NOT trying to imply anything negative about people in these situations... but what I often see in the trans community is...women who lived a life as a man and have everything and then transition and manage to keep some of it...young women often homeless or once homeless who are sex workers...trans women who have not really started full time, hrt, or anything except maybe there name, dressing, and a facebook page in there new gender who might say something about there job or there partner and you think "oh see she has a job, shes still close with her family and has a relationship) then you find out she's living completely as a male and hasn't even told any of those people...people who have been transitioning for a few months to a year and are on top of the world... some young stealth girls who try dating or getting jobs etc without telling no one and eventually having it come crashing down...
basically im not trying to insult anyone in those categories at all...I feel for them...and im not saying if you still have your job and marriage from before you transitioned that it doesn't count....I just feel like unless you transitioned real young (before any puberty) or already have a motherload to spend on ffs, srs and other xyz's...its pretty tough to feel confident, have people take you seriously in jobs or relationships, and I just don't see that much stuff going great as far as having a normal, happy, and productive life for people like me... am I missing something? Not looking hard enough? idk... if you guys can prove me wrong with your situations or situations of close friends id love it! It just seems like most people on here only care about coming out or starting hrt...what about after that?
*Edit* I was thinking more and I wanted to add as well... I see the suicide statistic, murder statistics, and I see a lot of trans women who are very angry and bitter on blogs and answering questions on yahoo answers or like this lady (I forget her name) bashing Bruce Jenner and nit picking everything "Bruce" said in the interview....

I feel like you need more channels of support so that you can openly discuss these very valid thoughts and focus on finding solutions for your own set of issues.

Ive learned that to get anywhere in the realm of transition, as you pointed out, you have to learn how to play the game; the game being life as it is and not how it should be. I'm transitioning at 30 after having kids and two wives; my situation has a slew of issues associated with it that have to be dealt with in a very careful manner. Are my issues stopping me? No. Do I find myself worrying about whether ill ever be able to afford VFS and if I could even do it due to my job, what my children would think, and what certain individuals in my family would think? Of course I do.

Like you I worry a lot, but I try to bury the negative with positive until I can permanently remove it from my life. Little victories mean everything.

If you'd care to talk on a 1 on 1 feel free to pm me.

well I have my first therapist appointment tomarrow and I couldn't be happier for that...its not to get on hormones(been on them for a year) and its not for surgery letters(it will be a long time till I can afford anything like that) it is simply to get help basically and to talk to someone who can hopefully help...

I still have a great (if not better) relationship with my family. I had a wonderful partner with whom marriage was a distinct possibility - until she died. Her death gave me a daughter and grandkids that were never part of my plan originally. OK, employment is a bit of an issue, but that was an issue even before I transitioned.

I came out 5 years ago this coming July and can see no circumstances under which I'd detransition. None at all. I'm a happy, self-confident woman living my life. My life is far from prefect, but it's a huge improvement on what it was. My confidence comes from within, I don't look to others for it. I know who I am and I know what I am. I love me - and it's taken a very long time for me to be able to say that.

I'm glad to hear your going to a therapist and hopefully work through some of your issues. None of us can guarantee everything is going to perfect after transition just we can guarantee we are going to have all of those prior to transition. I still have the job I had prior to transition, but then this is a job traditionally done by females anyway o all it's done is opened the door up to every client they have based on my experience and background now. Those of my family who were on with me before are still supportive of me now and those that were not well I haven't had contact with in awhile anyway. As far as relationships go I wasn't ever in a relationship prior to transition and I'm in one now so it's possible for someone to have one and be pre op at the same time. I wish you the best of luck. Hugs
Mariah.

I guess I'm one of those invisible young trans gals since I rarely talk about my personal life here but its because I don't like talking about my personal business on any public forum. I've never shared pics of myself on this site for the same reason.

Anyways life is going great and a big reason why my transition has been so successful is because of my family's support (which I'm super thankful for). I'm really close with my mom. Both of my parents fully accept me.  I actually have a social life now since I started transition 5 years ago. I'm also about to be an aunt soon. I was in my very first relationship with a cis woman since transitioning. I could keep listing things on and on but yeah I can't complain right now. I'm pretty happy and have my confidence back. I'm still pre-op atm but that's changing soon and really isn't a big deal unless I'm actively dating which I'm not currently or at least think I'm not lol... If you want to talk via pm or skype I'd be happy to share more.

In terms of a straight forward career, I could have one technically if I just went back to what I was doing before (computer science major) but I realized that path wasn't for me. It had nothing to do with my transition though.

I think life's what you make it...

I have a very close friend who fully transitioned many, many years ago, she has had a very successful career!  I also met a very senior MTF Executive at a major software company many years ago... so you can do very, very well!

I would suggest confidence is the key to succeeding, certainly by changing any doubts or negativity into positives will go a very long way to building confidence. Aim for the stars, set some goals and focus on achieving those at any cost, except where your morals won't let you go, seek guidance and a mentor (successful likeminded person, someone who will challenge you).

FWIW, I found that since being on HRT I have become so much more confident, less worried about life and things... this has benefitted me over the years and will push me through the rest of my life. BTW I intend to complete transition in the next new role I get (as soon as I can make it happen), if I am an asset to the company, which I will be, then there's no reason for them to object or fire me!

As for people around you, you can influence or distance them, always be nice, understanding of their thoughts, but at the end of the day, you can walk away, politely and move into other circles. This happens constantly, regardless of CIS or Transgendered...

Relationships, be yourself and be as honest as you can, remember there is ALWAYS a right person for everyone!

Hope that helps a little Anna xxxx

L Katy

Hi Anna,

There is a sliver of truth in what you're saying, I must admit. It has crossed my mind quite a lot. However it doesn't have to be all that bad.

Employment - yes, it can be tough. Lynn Conway went stealth after being fired from IBM and had few problems with employment because no one knew. I have been looking at that and wondering if that life is for me. I don't really want complete stealth but I figure some degree of stealth can be helpful. I am lucky in that I am in demand enough that I can find a job pretty easily. My linkedin will have to be abandoned and started afresh though. But if I'm looking in a large metro area it shouldn't be too hard. In the NYC area LGBT really is no big deal. If you can do the job you get the job. Maybe in the south or other places it would be hard.

Family - I don't have much experience with this one post transition.

Happiness - I know a couple of trans women outside of Susan's and they are happy, or at least they tell me so and they seem happy.

However, many of the same issues you talked about I experienced before I started to transition. I couldn't find love, jobs would reject me (I got literally laughed out of one interview) etc etc. I mean, life is really not a bed of roses (or at least roses without thorns!) You gotta work at it constantly unless you're extremely lucky to be born into a rich family.

You're what, 19 now? When I was 19 I had lots of doubtful moments about myself. I just didn't know what was going to happen to my life. Then I began looking to make my way and I built my career little by little. Used my smarts to get ahead, and eventually now I'm successful in life.

Anyway glad you're seeing a therapist. They tend to be helpful, if you find the right one. Mine has been extremely helpful and there for me when I need her. I do need her for surgery letters and the like but that's not why I go to the sessions. This place is also good.

I live in S. Korea, and have heard about the social status of m2f transsexual, although I have never met them in person.
Many of them work at underground bars, but a few have been exceptionally successful in their career as entertainer.
But I think their status will be improved in the future. Some m2f or f2m transsexuals live in complete stealth. I once saw a TV interview on m2f transsexual and was surprised that she looked so much normal and has lived like other women. She was old, and not beautiful, but just looked like an ordinary aged woman here.

Yes. Economic independence is very important when you and doctors consider and approve transition.
In my case, I did not get HRT, but just wear women's clothes and shoes, together with some makeup everyday.
I teach in a university here, sometimes with skirt and heels. Students seem to think that I am a kind of weird person, but do not care so much as I teach like others and support well my graduate students both financially and academically.
I should be very exceptional here.

barbie~~

for me it was just a matter of what was most important to me in life, sadly I was never shown the path to transition through all the therapy I've had for other reasons. I wasn't successful job wise in life and that had nothing to do with transition . Figure out what's most important and strive for that. How important is transition to you. For me right now transition is the only thing that keeps me alive, but I love my life right now even though I have nothing , but again that had nothing to do with my gender issue. I remember when I was going to school and having a severe bout with my gender issues I went through the same thought process your going through and decided there was no way to make a living if transitioned, but that was 40 years ago and things are quite different now, Sure life could be challenging if you completely transition , but I think if you look at yourself and figure how important transition is to you you'll  overcome the obstacles . I'm on disability and living a bare minimum no frills existence, but I'm as happy as the proverbial mouse in the cheese factory because I'm finally doing what I needed to do 50 years ago.

I'm certainly happier as Ashley than I was as Allen. But I have to admit I wonder what the future holds for me. I already have my job and recently got a decent raise as Ashley not as Allen. So my area of concern is just dating.

I had a single date that went no where about a year ago. I suspect ultimately she was too busy to be dating. I don't think it was anything I did. Before that I haven't had any dates since December 2001 when my ex-fiance broke up with me. It occurs to me that straight girls are out. Lesbians might be afraid of me on the basis that they might still see me as a man (after all I am pre-op). That leaves bisexuals. I'm in an area where the dating pool is tiny as hell. Its been so long since I've been in a relationship that I have no idea what I'm doing. I would actually prefer to have a girl hit on me rather than the other way around.

The good news is, I'm a hell of a lot more patient regarding dating than I was. I'm in the process of rediscovering who I am. I'm recreating my life my way. I'm not doing things to fit in as a normal guy anymore. So with all of that going on and the fact that there is a lot I still don't know about myself, its not to bad that I'm not dating yet.

Anna,

Punctuation (and correct grammar and spelling) is important if you want to present a mature, professional look. Dont knock them just yet! Granted, here you are among friends and family, so there are no worries. To my real point...

Visible trans people have two types of issues; issues they have any control over, and issues they dont. The issues we can't control (family nonacceptance, etc), will affect everyone in some fashion, and may be what holds them from greater success. There is no way to tell unless you eliminate the issues you CAN control (addiction, employment, education, skills, etc). The problem you are seeing, and this is just my personal opinion, is that many of these visible trans people are having many issues, and cannot get to that "peaceful" place that successful (and especially stealth) tranisitoners reach. This is where the issues that remain are life issues, similar to most cis people, with some trans issues added to it. My main point is that they are effectively "normal" to society, and as such are not visible as depressed, struggling trans people. Many of the issues that we all struggle (or fear to) with are often lumped into "can't control" issues because of some variable that is highly challenging, wih a splash of uncontrollable thrown in (ie. Lack of skills and education contribute more to unemployment than discrimination, though discrimination may sometimes rear its head due to one's lack of confidence in their presentation).

These people have their OWN issues. They must deal and cope on their own. And many are very vocal.

Those who have taken care of most of their issues tend to not need to gripe or be visibily depressed. Therefore, they are no longer visible, even if not fully stealth. People use the internet to bitch and vent, so we hear and see it a TON more than those who have good, successful lives.

As such, it is the social circle you are tapped into and pay attention to that matters... You said most are early transitioners, or have a ton to gripe about, and are always unhappy. That sounds like the majority of my high school and college classmates. The ones of my developing years who are most successful and happy tend to rarely post or talk in social media, unless to promote an event they are offering people to attend (ie charity dinner).

Perspective is always important, and i feel that we should take that into account when we see how much of our community is hurting. There are many that are sucfering, yes, but they are INDIVIDUAL PEOPLE and they should be cared for as such, rather than used as an example of how all of us are. I have been quite happy and joyful to have met a large amount of our community who are very much doing well, content or happy with their lot, and doing their part to live fruitful, normal lives.

They are out there - just a very silent minority.

Hi Anna,

To be honest, I don't want to sit here and boast about how good my life is.  I often feel that no one really wants to hear all that.  But I will share with you briefly that I transitioned at age 33 (I'm 50 now.)  Prior to transition I had no career; I was a high school drop-out with a GED; I worked a lot of odd jobs out of the back of a pickup truck and stacked produce in a health food store.  I did lose a marriage because of transition, but 2 years after I transitioned I moved to a new city for a new relationship.  In my new city I did start a new career in accounting.  Unfortunately the relationship only lasted 5 years (she got cancer and died), but 8 years ago I met a wonderful lady, fell in love, and we celebrated our 7 year wedding anniversary 6 weeks ago in March.

I have a great job in accounting that pays well, live in a big, gorgeous house in a very nice neighborhood, have lots of friends, super fun hobbies, a dog that I adore, and I continue to be happily married. 

Okay, so, I never talk about my transgender history with employers, co-workers, most friends or acquaintances.  So the vast majority of people who know me today just don't know about my transgender past.  I keep it to myself because I find that once people know that I'm a trans woman, in their minds it becomes the most interesting thing about me... and frankly I don't believe that it's the most interesting thing about me.

So yes, I transitioned later in life, started a new career (the only career I've ever had), have had wonderful relationships, got married 9 years post-transition, continue to be very happily married after 7/8 years, have friends that I hang out with every week, am healthy, happy, moderately successful with goals and hobbies that I actively and joyfully pursue, and I generally live an extremely fulfilling life.  Indeed, I just turned 50 and I'm eager to see what the next 50 years bring.

I hope this glimpse into my story brings you some comfort.  That is exactly why I hang out in these forums.  Thank you for giving me this opportunity to share a little bit of my story with you.  I appreciate you.

Hugs!
Miharu

wow that's amazing. I don't see a lot of long term stories and to me that is one of the biggest parts that's missing. I see so many people I relate to who are beginning their transition, but not many that far along. It gives me hope especially since you were about my age when I started. I was 32 almost 33 when I started.

Quote from: Miharu Barbie on April 27, 2015, 04:24:17 PM
Hi Anna,

To be honest, I don't want to sit here and boast about how good my life is.  I often feel that no one really wants to hear all that.  But I will share with you briefly that I transitioned at age 33 (I'm 50 now.)  Prior to transition I had no career; I was a high school drop-out with a GED; I worked a lot of odd jobs out of the back of a pickup truck and stacked produce in a health food store.  I did lose a marriage because of transition, but 2 years after I transitioned I moved to a new city for a new relationship.  In my new city I did start a new career in accounting.  Unfortunately the relationship only lasted 5 years (she got cancer and died), but 8 years ago I met a wonderful lady, fell in love, and we celebrated our 7 year wedding anniversary 6 weeks ago in March.

I have a great job in accounting that pays well, live in a big, gorgeous house in a very nice neighborhood, have lots of friends, super fun hobbies, a dog that I adore, and I continue to be happily married. 

Okay, so, I never talk about my transgender history with employers, co-workers, most friends or acquaintances.  So the vast majority of people who know me today just don't know about my transgender past.  I keep it to myself because I find that once people know that I'm a trans woman, in their minds it becomes the most interesting thing about me... and frankly I don't believe that it's the most interesting thing about me.

So yes, I transitioned later in life, started a new career (the only career I've ever had), have had wonderful relationships, got married 9 years post-transition, continue to be very happily married after 7/8 years, have friends that I hang out with every week, am healthy, happy, moderately successful with goals and hobbies that I actively and joyfully pursue, and I generally live an extremely fulfilling life.  Indeed, I just turned 50 and I'm eager to see what the next 50 years bring.

I hope this glimpse into my story brings you some comfort.  That is exactly why I hang out in these forums.  Thank you for giving me this opportunity to share a little bit of my story with you.  I appreciate you.

Hugs!
Miharu

Dear Anna

You are taking an extremely negative view of the transgender situation, and I will be blunt and say that if this is how you see the world, you are going to have a miserable time of things.

I'm not suggesting that you should be prancing through a make-believe world of sunny meadows, but you will see here on this forum that the people who have been most successful at dealing with being transgender are those who embrace their difference as a journey worth taking, and very VERY actively work at making sure that their outcome is a positive one.

I have been mentoring quite a few transgender women over the past year, and it's crystal clear to me that attitude is everything.  There are transgender women here who are 6'5" tall and get called ma'am all day, as well as petite 5'7" girls who go into a meltdown whenever they suspect that someone is looking at them oddly.   Being trans is like being handed a bad hand in poker:  maybe you can replace some cards and you'll come up with a flush, or maybe you can bluff your way to a win.  Both work, but you need to be smart about how you handle the cards you've been dealt.

It also helps to work from a position of relative power, and to be the actor and director in the movie of your life.  While you are out there painting a desolate picture of transgender existence there are other people actively enjoying their transgender existence.  I'm not naïve about the very serious issues that many of our number face in terms of mental illness, discrimination and opportunities, but it seems to me that you have the means, if not presently the will, to proceed positively.

I am pleased that you have your first therapy session coming up, although I am dismayed that it has come so long after starting HRT.  Nevertheless, use the opportunity to look at how to deal with your situation in a positive way, and be realistic that you may have to work hard to get yourself into a positive place.

And finally I ask you a favour:  if you do want us to clearly understand your issues on this forum, please be kind to those of us who are spending our time on your posts and use punctuation, grammar and capitalisation.  That way we may be able to provide you with real help rather than sifting through a rant.

Regards
Julia

I am glad you have your first therapy session scheduled.

I go to group and there are trans that have issues as you wrote. I also see some that are doing well. I have been in contact with several that are young professionals in the sciences.

Where I work there is an intern (in my office suite) that is going to college (professional track) and doing well. We also have 2 persons before me that transitioned at work fully and 14 disclosed that are trans. I work for a socially liberal enterprise . Our revenue is 3 billion dollars a year.

If you gain a skill or professional license then it is hard to take that away from you and you will be in demand.

I am 52 and coming out fully at work 9/1. I  have 1 child and married. I have a professional license and have a 27 year track record at my enterprise. I most likely will be very positively received at work by many. I am in senior management. I fit your latter type trans example.

I agree with attitude being everything. I own being Ashley. When I came out at work to HR first she either told me I was the 3rd or she had helped 3 others. Either way she could tell the difference between them and me. The others weren't very certain of themselves and many of their coworkers found it difficult to deal with the situation because it wasn't constant. With me I've looked in one direction since coming out to myself. There were a few issues when I first came out that all vanished after a couple of weeks. I recently spoke to my boss and he told me that he hasn't heard of anything negative about me. We was checking in on me because I got into a nasty argument with a coworker. I told him it had nothing to do with me being trans. The argument was the result of events that started 4 years ago.

The only area I don't have confidence in, is dating and that's also the one that's most lacking.

Quote from: Julia-Madrid on April 27, 2015, 05:54:04 PM
Dear Anna

You are taking an extremely negative view of the transgender situation, and I will be blunt and say that if this is how you see the world, you are going to have a miserable time of things.

I'm not suggesting that you should be prancing through a make-believe world of sunny meadows, but you will see here on this forum that the people who have been most successful at dealing with being transgender are those who embrace their difference as a journey worth taking, and very VERY actively work at making sure that their outcome is a positive one.

I have been mentoring quite a few transgender women over the past year, and it's crystal clear to me that attitude is everything.  There are transgender women here who are 6'5" tall and get called ma'am all day, as well as petite 5'7" girls who go into a meltdown whenever they suspect that someone is looking at them oddly.   Being trans is like being handed a bad hand in poker:  maybe you can replace some cards and you'll come up with a flush, or maybe you can bluff your way to a win.  Both work, but you need to be smart about how you handle the cards you've been dealt.

It also helps to work from a position of relative power, and to be the actor and director in the movie of your life.  While you are out there painting a desolate picture of transgender existence there are other people actively enjoying their transgender existence.  I'm not naïve about the very serious issues that many of our number face in terms of mental illness, discrimination and opportunities, but it seems to me that you have the means, if not presently the will, to proceed positively.

I am pleased that you have your first therapy session coming up, although I am dismayed that it has come so long after starting HRT.  Nevertheless, use the opportunity to look at how to deal with your situation in a positive way, and be realistic that you may have to work hard to get yourself into a positive place.

And finally I ask you a favour:  if you do want us to clearly understand your issues on this forum, please be kind to those of us who are spending our time on your posts and use punctuation, grammar and capitalisation.  That way we may be able to provide you with real help rather than sifting through a rant.

Regards
Julia

Omg to everyone that brings up punctuation and criticizes her quit it's rude. This is a support sight not a academic setting or a professional page so who gives a........

Ok I know lots of people who don't really fit in ur expectations. one women was homeless prior to transition and now she is super successful. She is a democratic strategist for my state. then there is my friend who's just finishing law school and is getting married and she transitioned years ago. I know people that are loving their new vaginas. I know people that are of all social economic standings who are trans. Just because the community struggles in many ways due to the oppression we face doesn't mean we as individuals can't rise above it. We face a lot it's true but that just makes it that much more sweet when we get there. It's hard though and it's easy to fall into a negative view point and give up, but there's nothing to gain from that. I understand that u are having a hard time from one of ur other post. And when people are going through difficult times it's hard to have a positive view on things. So hang on try to keep yourself occupied on something that will take ur mind off of things.





Also maybe reach out to more trans people in ur area... Or get involved with activism. Even if u aren't political it would and amazing way to meet not only people that are fighting super hard for all of us, but also meet people with various economic standings.

I am not here to give any personal stories but I do suggest checking out Press XY's panels on you tube, press XY is a trans group who dose panels mostly at PAX east each year and often talks about coming out in the gaming industry and there own stories, they cover a full range from a long term cross dresser who has been out about that for most if his career to post op girls and the panels can be fun to listen to one of them has the best coming out to your boss story ever.

Another thing to keep in mind, something I had to learn playing MMO's, the only people who regularly post on a games forums are the ones who are upset about something, those that love the game (usually the majority) are busy playing it rather than trolling the forums complaining. The Same idea is true with transgender peoples lives, aside from a few dedicated souls who have made there life's work about transgender rights and support and those in transition chronicleing there life, the only people who regularly start blogs are those who are upset about things, I would say that the vast majority of post transition, transgender individuals are too busy living there lives to spend much time online talking about said lives.

Long story short if only one percent of people complain about something and 99% say nothing that makes the 1% look like the majority.

--Serena

I had to re read your post. 
And no, it didn't have to do with your grammar ;-)
I was just thinking about this today - how I was giving so much energy to just trying to exist happily as my trans self (with all the trials that entails - fears, doubts, insecurities) , that I haven't had enough left over to devote to making my life awesome. I wonder if a lot of us get so caught up in trying to adjust that it becomes such a big part of our identity. And then,, our dreams/ striving for something exceptional just falls to the wayside.