I think I may just be too big to really pass or at least be attractive as a female.

I'm 5'11, have 18 inch shoulders, a wide back, muscly-looking biceps, and little over a 34 inch rib cage. I'm not fat at all, in fact my ribs stick out and I look somewhat underweight. The point is I can't get my body a whole lot smaller than this and I'm still kind of big for a male. I just don't see how anyone could see me as desirable, even if I did have a passing face, if I'm just so abnormally large. Seriously, the only women as big as me, from what I've been reading, are all obese or at least visibly overweight, My frame is just too manish and I feel like if my face looks guyish at all (which it will regardless due to my nose) that the combination of the two just make me look suspect or at least fairly unattractive.

I'm a really cute guy who's 21 and pre HRT and I hate the idea of just being a freakish woman who people constantly remind about her big body- it just makes me feel subhuman. At least people like the way I look now and I can get pretty much any gay dude I want. I mean, even if I could pass and find some (Likely creepy ->-bleeped-<-) guy to like me, if he's attractive at all, all his friends are bound to ask him "hey why do you date that huge manly chick?"

Are you large for a woman or larger than me? Do people comment on how big you are? Am I too big to pass or ever be considered beautiful by most people due to my body? Obviously there's someone for everyone and I don't need to be perfect to be happy or to pass, but I don't like the idea of being some invisible girl due to my looks. I always just wished I could be your average girl who's kind of cute, but it doesn't seem like it's going to happen that way and I can't stand it

I live in a farming district that was originally settled by Dutch and Norwegians.  Some of the cis-women around here are big ladies with fairly solid bone structure and I don't think anybody would dare to tell them that they aren't women.

Woman come in all shapes and sizes and HRT can do marvelous things to help deal with muscles along with shaping the body in subtle ways. I highly recommend you take a look at the before and after thread because that will really give you and idea of how we change during our transitions. I was never very bulky, but many others were and they pass just fine now. I know it's hard to see at this point as your looking at and considering taking steps down the path of transition, but trust me it does get better. Hugs
Mariah

Quote from: Bleeps and Bloops on April 30, 2015, 04:37:18 PM
I think I may just be too big to really pass or at least be attractive as a female.

I'm 5'11, have 18 inch shoulders, a wide back, muscly-looking biceps, and little over a 34 inch rib cage. I'm not fat at all, in fact my ribs stick out and I look somewhat underweight. The point is I can't get my body a whole lot smaller than this and I'm still kind of big for a male. I just don't see how anyone could see me as desirable, even if I did have a passing face, if I'm just so abnormally large. Seriously, the only women as big as me, from what I've been reading, are all obese or at least visibly overweight, My frame is just too manish and I feel like if my face looks guyish at all (which it will regardless due to my nose) that the combination of the two just make me look suspect or at least fairly unattractive.

I'm a really cute guy who's 21 and pre HRT and I hate the idea of just being a freakish woman who people constantly remind about her big body- it just makes me feel subhuman. At least people like the way I look now and I can get pretty much any gay dude I want. I mean, even if I could pass and find some (Likely creepy ->-bleeped-<-) guy to like me, if he's attractive at all, all his friends are bound to ask him "hey why do you date that huge manly chick?"

Are you large for a woman or larger than me? Do people comment on how big you are? Am I too big to pass or ever be considered beautiful by most people due to my body? Obviously there's someone for everyone and I don't need to be perfect to be happy or to pass, but I don't like the idea of being some invisible girl due to my looks. I always just wished I could be your average girl who's kind of cute, but it doesn't seem like it's going to happen that way and I can't stand it

I'm 6'2" and have a 42 inch ribcage.  At first I thought I'd look like a shaven ape in a dress, but nobody looks at me twice anymore.  It's all about demeanor and attitude.  I own it.

BTW, my (cis) wife is 5'11" and is built like a linebacker as well. Sometimes it's fun when we have to admit how long we've actually been married to each other and watch people's expressions when they try to figure it out.  My fave question?  "So which one of you used to be a guy?"

The quick answer to your question is absolutely not.  There are plenty of tall women (cisgender and transgender) who are gorgeous, and not "manly" at all.  Also, 5'11" is not that tall.  Famke Jannsen (my favorite actress) is 6'0" and oof...  <3 Andreja Pejic is 6'1" and <3 <3 <3 * infinity. 

Muscle-wise, if you go on HRT, some of that will change as you simply won't be able to maintain the same level of musculature unless you exercise quite a bit.  If you like being muscled, well, look at Madonna, that woman is built like a block of bricks (in a very good way). 

Also, please never settle for a "->-bleeped-<-" type.  You really don't want to associate with these people who fetishize trans people.  Now, there are people who have a preference for transgender people for various reasons, but that is fundamentally different from those who view us basically as sex toys.

I'm 6' 4" with a 40 inch shoulder length, and more than one person has told me that I look good as a female.. Mariah is absolutly right, women come in all shapes and size. Don't be discouraged by your size. I'm not only really tall, but I also have an affinity for really high heels. (i prefer they be no shorter than 4 inches) So, I can get really tall at times. From what I've read, HRT will reduce your muscle size, it'll just take time. Patience is a virtue, and especially rings true for transitioning. Until then, don't let the opinions of other people affect your life. Unless you give their opinions power in your own life, they only really affect their lives.

I am a bit shorter than you, 5'10", but my shoulders are about the same as yours and even though I am but a month in on hormones I have been passing here and there. My arms and neck are quite muscled and I am fairly uncomfortable about them but I am keen to watch them go. And that is my point. I'm realy enjoying this process, the slow fade from male to truth. I was told that I was a "beautiful" man, or at least reasonably good looking. But I hated it, every time someone showed that they were atracted to me it made me hate myself even more. Anything is better than living like that. Also, I have a bunch of cis female friends who are around my hight give or take an inch and they do quite well on the dating scene. I'm in my 30's by the way. The best part is that taller women tend to have deeper voices and are more prone to slight brow ridges too. Now, I don't like either of those things on me but knowing that I don't stand out helps. I am a bit of a tomboy so that helps but the point is that we shouldn't let the world keep us from being happy. This first month of hrt has been one of the best of my life, I wouldn't go back for any reason. 

6 foot 1 and a half 230 pounds.I had some Dutch ladies staying last year,biggest was 6'6",the baby 6'3".Big girls are beautiful.

Quote from: Ian68 on April 30, 2015, 04:55:26 PM
The quick answer to your question is absolutely not.  There are plenty of tall women (cisgender and transgender) who are gorgeous, and not "manly" at all.  Also, 5'11" is not that tall.  Famke Jannsen (my favorite actress) is 6'0" and oof...  <3 Andreja Pejic is 6'1" and <3 <3 <3 * infinity. 

Muscle-wise, if you go on HRT, some of that will change as you simply won't be able to maintain the same level of musculature unless you exercise quite a bit.  If you like being muscled, well, look at Madonna, that woman is built like a block of bricks (in a very good way). 

Also, please never settle for a "->-bleeped-<-" type.  You really don't want to associate with these people who fetishize trans people.  Now, there are people who have a preference for transgender people for various reasons, but that is fundamentally different from those who view us basically as sex toys.

Well Andreja is also incredibly slim, narrow shouldered, lean, and has a small ribcage so Height alone is hardly what my problem was so much as the thickness of my ribcage and the way my smaller waist only heightens my body's inverted triangle shape. The problem is, gay guys like dudes and straight guys like vaginas, not 100% of the time but I feel like most men who have a preference for transwomen fetishize them to some extent even if they don't see us as straight-up sex toys.

I guess part of me feels like the sort of woman I am is comfortable with herself being sort of big but I still feel so inadequate. Being trans is admitting you were born with a huge defect and putting yourself through hell to try and correct it. Part of me wonders if I don't just desire to be so traditionally beautiful because, like many young transitioners I've seen, I feel as though it will somehow validate me as a person. I have very low self esteem and I want to be better but I'm having a hard time dealing with all these challenges at once and not judging myself for being trans. I read this article earlier today and it put me in a really bad mood http://www.theblaze.com/contributions/bruce-jenner-is-not-a-woman-he-is-a-sick-and-delusional-man/

that and torturing myself with more "average woman statistics" has ruined this part of my day today just like something does almost every day. I'm feeling anxious and horrible because I'm at a difficult point where I could start HRT soon if I wanted but I'm not sure if I'll be ready to support myself when the time comes to be full time or if I'll have significant struggles in various areas. Not to mention, to transition more than I have already would be to take my presentation to a very apparent level whereas, up until now, I've only done more subtle things to be more feminine.

Gay men like men.  Straight men like women.  While it's true that many straight men may prefer female sexual anatomy, that isn't true for all of us.  I'm straight (Kinsey 0, ridiculously straight apparently), and I have no preference with regard to a woman's sex organs, zero.  My slight preference for transgender women (pre-/non-/post-op) is based mostly on the appeal of shared experience (the rest of the preference is driven by familiarity and higher potential for reproductive comptability). Some guys do prefer genetic females or women with vaginas (this isn't a fetish), some prefer transgender women (for various reasons, and yeah, this may include a preference for women who have a penis if the preference is focused on non- or pre-op women, that doesn't in and of itself indicate a fetish, people have preferences), some don't have a preference, but regardless, you shouldn't base your life on your desirability to others.  You have a right to be who you are, and that right is not contingent upon the sexual preferences of others.

Quote from: Bleeps and Bloops on April 30, 2015, 06:51:11 PM
I guess part of me feels like the sort of woman I am is comfortable with herself being sort of big but I still feel so inadequate. Being trans is admitting you were born with a huge defect and putting yourself through hell to try and correct it.

Transgender people are *not* defective.  If you feel that you, personally, are not in the correct body, that is your right, but please do not make this incorrect and dangerous generalization.

Quote from: Ian68 on April 30, 2015, 07:04:32 PM
Transgender people are *not* defective.  If you feel that you, personally, are not in the correct body, that is your right, but please do not make this incorrect and dangerous generalization.

Being born with the wrong chromosomes and having to grow up as something you aren't with the wrong sexual characteristics and having to go through puberty and experience having the wrong hormones in your body kind of seems like a big deal to me. I thought feeling like you weren't "correct" in at least some way was the whole point of transitioning- of fixing some perceived defect in the way you are expected to look and feel

Quote from: Bleeps and Bloops on April 30, 2015, 07:10:53 PM
Being born with the wrong chromosomes and having to grow up as something you aren't with the wrong sexual characteristics and having to go through puberty and experience having the wrong hormones in your body kind of seems like a big deal to me. I thought feeling like you weren't "correct" in at least some way was the whole point of transitioning- of fixing some perceived defect in the way you are expected to look and feel

It's more complicated than that.  Not all transgender people want to transition medically, some do but only partially, and others want to undergo every procedure necessary to have all of the characteristics short of chromosomes of a certain sex.  Not all of us view ourselves as having been born into the wrong body, some of us still experience dysphoria with our bodies despite that, and some don't.  I've known women who only wanted hormones, men who wanted nothing, men who have had top surgery and taken hormones, and women who have had full SRS, and trach shaves - not one if them was "more trans" than the other.

Like I said, you're completely entitled to feel as you do about yourself, and I have no desire to try to invalidate your feelings, though I do wish that I could change them for anyone who feels this way.  However, making generalizations about all of us is a dangerous thing to do, and can lead others to view themselves negatively as well.  Just food for thought...

Quote from: Ian68 on April 30, 2015, 07:24:27 PM
It's more complicated than that.  Not all transgender people want to transition medically, some do but only partially, and others want to undergo every procedure necessary to have all of the characteristics short of chromosomes of a certain sex.  Not all of us view ourselves as having been born into the wrong body, some of us still experience dysphoria with our bodies despite that, and some don't.  I've known women who only wanted hormones, men who wanted nothing, men who have had top surgery and taken hormones, and women who have had full SRS, and trach shaves - not one if them was "more trans" than the other.

Like I said, you're completely entitled to feel as you do about yourself, and I have no desire to try to invalidate your feelings, though I do wish that I could change them for anyone who feels this way.  However, making generalizations about all of us is a dangerous thing to do, and can lead others to view themselves negatively as well.  Just food for thought...

It's not that I'm "entitled" to feel the way I do, I just do. I can't make anyone view themselves negatively either unless they're already insecure. The majority of trans people feel wrong in some way at least before transitioning. They talk about being born wrong. Sure, I made a generalization, but it was from my perspective of a person who can't imagine not taking many steps to transition. Not that someone who didn't care to was "less trans", I feel those people are definitely in the minority though and don't represent the kind of experiences I was talking about using the word trans. If you have a different word for me to use, that's fine, but ultimately I feel what I said was pretty clear and there was no reason for me to go on some tirade so I can explain that trans people represent a huge spectrum just so I could make a statement about my own experiences.

The questions you should be asking yourself are: am you able to live a happy and fulfilling life as a man? Can you imagine yourself growing old as a man and how do you feel about that? Would it be worth more to live a life as a woman... because even though unmistakable "passing" may not be given or easily achieved to many, it is still not the only important thing. Many live life as visably trans and they own it. If you're utterly unhappy and miserable all the time in your male role, than you don't have much choice other than to finally start living as yourself and do everything you can to make it work, for you.

Quote from: mmmmm on April 30, 2015, 08:30:28 PM
The questions you should be asking yourself are: am you able to live a happy and fulfilling life as a man? Can you imagine yourself growing old as a man and how do you feel about that? Would it be worth more to live a life as a woman... because even though unmistakable "passing" may not be given or easily achieved to many, it is still not the only important thing. Many live life as visably trans and they own it. If you're utterly unhappy and miserable all the time in your male role, than you don't have much choice other than to finally start living as yourself and do everything you can to make it work, for you.

I don't like the idea of being a big old ugly woman who's basically a larger version of my mother (though people to this day still say she looks hot), but looking like my dad? losing my hair and being an old effeminate man? Ugh, it's terrifying.  I'm not miserable all the time in my male role. But I am miserable in my male role. I just hate having to face all these problems and uncertainty.

Quote from: Bleeps and Bloops on April 30, 2015, 06:51:11 PM
I guess part of me feels like the sort of woman I am is comfortable with herself being sort of big but I still feel so inadequate. Being trans is admitting you were born with a huge defect and putting yourself through hell to try and correct it. Part of me wonders if I don't just desire to be so traditionally beautiful because, like many young transitioners I've seen, I feel as though it will somehow validate me as a person. I have very low self esteem and I want to be better but I'm having a hard time dealing with all these challenges at once and not judging myself for being trans. I read this article earlier today and it put me in a really bad mood http://www.theblaze.com/contributions/bruce-jenner-is-not-a-woman-he-is-a-sick-and-delusional-man/

that and torturing myself with more "average woman statistics" has ruined this part of my day today just like something does almost every day. I'm feeling anxious and horrible because I'm at a difficult point where I could start HRT soon if I wanted but I'm not sure if I'll be ready to support myself when the time comes to be full time or if I'll have significant struggles in various areas. Not to mention, to transition more than I have already would be to take my presentation to a very apparent level whereas, up until now, I've only done more subtle things to be more feminine.

Matt Walsh is an ignorant misinformed bigot so I hope you didn't take anything he wrote seriously.

Quote from: Lady Smith on April 30, 2015, 09:31:30 PM
Matt Walsh is an ignorant misinformed bigot so I hope you didn't take anything he wrote seriously.

yeah, anyone who describes themselves as a "professional truth sayer" has GOT to be a complete narcissistic idiot.

My wife (who is not a trans woman) has 22" shoulders and a 35" rib cage. And she's 5'5", which is actually a drawback when it comes to balancing out those sorts of proportions - people are easily fooled by a taller woman into thinking she's more slightly built than she is b/c the height counterbalances the rest a bit. Yet she's never had anyone say she looks weird, even. It helps that she's also curvy... but starting young means you have a good chance of ending up that way too!

Plus it's amazing what HRT can do; never underestimate how dramatic "merely" soft tissue changes can be.