So as the title says. . In the past few months ive been clocked more than need be. Its strange because im not quite sure why. My surgeon was dr cardenas, but I have gotton regular recomendations from other doctors and they tell me I dont need anything else! And that anything else would to subtle changea. This is frustrating because I dont want to be clocked unintentionally. Im supposedly stelth at work, howver ive been clocked there a few times. Does any have a third party app such as kik? Or email I can send picw to for recommendations? And advice... im literally mind boggled... right now I just want a whole new face. I have no idea what it could be. My voice is suuperb. Never got the chance to get deep... as well as no adams apple. Im confused.. maybe its my 5"8 height?? Stressed...

Hi, sorry to hear something's not working for you. Passing isn't all about looks though... presentation, clothes, hair, posture...? Could be height but I'm 6'3" and not having the issue you seem to be having.

So sorry to hear that. Grace hit this on the nose though much of passing is other little things and not necessary how our face or breasts look. Hugs.
Mariah

Also, what do you mean by "clocked" exactly - are people calling you "sir" or misgendering you? Or are they staring intently at you? Or are they maybe just glancing at you? If it's the latter it probably isn't being read, it's probably "wow, she looks nice"...

Quote from: Ms Grace on May 02, 2015, 10:48:09 PM
Also, what do you mean by "clocked" exactly - are people calling you "sir" or misgendering you? Or are they staring intently at you? Or are they maybe just glancing at you? If it's the latter it probably isn't being read, it's probably "wow, she looks nice"...

Yeah its so weird cuz I get hit on a lot by guys! There has only been one time I was called sir... hut then later she corrected herself after doing it a lot. I also went on a date and a guy asked me was I a man. Wow. I hate to even say that.. crushes me. Now, im told all the time im absolutely gorge... but in a male way or woman way. Someone told me I look like michael jackson ... I dont know if this is good or bad

For some reason I just feel completely un fixable.

Quote from: Mariah2014 on May 02, 2015, 10:10:39 PM
So sorry to hear that. Grace hit this on the nose though much of passing is other little things and not necessary how our face or breasts look. Hugs.
Mariah

Give you face time to heal.  You might look like you have had work done and that could be bringing the attention and people questioning your gender.  It take a long time for the face to settle, then once it settles it needs to mold and age along with you, kinda get broken in.  How long ago did you have surgery?

Quote from: lovelessheart on May 02, 2015, 10:55:22 PM
Yeah its so weird cuz I get hit on a lot by guys! There has only been one time I was called sir... hut then later she corrected herself after doing it a lot. I also went on a date and a guy asked me was I a man. Wow. I hate to even say that.. crushes me. Now, im told all the time im absolutely gorge... but in a male way or woman way. Someone told me I look like michael jackson ... I dont know if this is good or bad

Re the date - there are just some people who can tell, doesn't matter what you do. Keep in mind he may ask that of a lot of genetic women too because he's a jerk.

Also, good advice from Danielle.

Loveless

Do you wear any makeup?  A little does go a long way to correcting any androgyny left in your face, so do try it if you aren't using it. 

Regarding people who find you attractive, but may not be sure of your gender - this is not a disaster, although I perfectly understand your distress.  Some guys are just attracted to androgynous reatures.  Believe this if you will:  before my FFS I was stopped by random interested guys many more times than since having my FFS.  And, with a bit of makeup, I always pass now.  Weird...

It sounds like you're a pretty balanced person, so gently correct people when they get it wrong and just move on...

xxx
Julia

Quote from: lovelessheart on May 02, 2015, 10:55:22 PM
Yeah its so weird cuz I get hit on a lot by guys! There has only been one time I was called sir... hut then later she corrected herself after doing it a lot. I also went on a date and a guy asked me was I a man. Wow. I hate to even say that.. crushes me. Now, im told all the time im absolutely gorge... but in a male way or woman way. Someone told me I look like michael jackson ... I dont know if this is good or bad

Quote from: Danielle11746 on May 03, 2015, 12:16:35 AM
Give you face time to heal.  You might look like you have had work done and that could be bringing the attention and people questioning your gender.  It take a long time for the face to settle, then once it settles it needs to mold and age along with you, kinda get broken in.  How long ago did you have surgery?

Last june. I only did partial ffs tho.... but I passed bfor ffs about 50 percnt of the time. Ive always had androgynous face.. but I am to gt more ffs... so maybe thats why... I just felt to past right now since everyone keeps telling me I dont need anything

Quote from: Julia-Madrid on May 03, 2015, 12:44:56 AM
Loveless

Do you wear any makeup?  A little does go a long way to correcting any androgyny left in your face, so do try it if you aren't using it. 

Regarding people who find you attractive, but may not be sure of your gender - this is not a disaster, although I perfectly understand your distress.  Some guys are just attracted to androgynous reatures.  Believe this if you will:  before my FFS I was stopped by random interested guys many more times than since having my FFS.  And, with a bit of makeup, I always pass now.  Weird...

It sounds like you're a pretty balanced person, so gently correct people when they get it wrong and just move on...

xxx
Julia

You are right.. I do wear make up and pass 100 percent of the time. Its only whn I dont... but im a simple girl... I dont like makeup all the timee!  I only got a rhinoplast and pass now most of the time but iidk if people are think is that a man.. or wow she could be a model.. im told the second one a lot. Idk...I am due to have some more tweaks done to my face, for improvement... but surgeon says it would be subtle cuz I already look  feminine.

Clocking is not only face, there are also various subtle factors as the way you walk, mannerism and if you 'over-feminize' your gestures that's a clocking factor too. And it could be your body form, lack of hips, curves etc...If you want send me your face in private, I'll tell if it's that. I'm more a less an expert in pinning. 

Speech patterns have given me away. Have you checked into a speech therapist so see if that could be the clue?

This may sound silly.

Cis women don't worry that they are seen as trans*. So no one cares. Trans* women do. They get 'clocked' (horrible term).

I don't care. No one clocks me. If they do I don't care.

from a >30 year transition perspective / lesbian perspective

my cis partner "gets clocked", so have many of my cis friends over the years.  sometimes it pisses them off, other times they f&ck with the people who can't get it right.  It really has to do with people's stereotypical images of gender.  My best description of this is when a group of us, leather wearing biker women, went through a buffet line after leading a gay pride march.  Almost every other food server said sir or ma'am to us, we got a big laugh out of it.  I'm 6'3", occasionally it happens, when it does I correct them, they end up embarrassed.

You have to be comfortable in who you are.

FWIW, I'm seriously considering FFS 'cause I'm nearing 60 and 30 something years of outdoor activities are wearing on my face.

Quote from: Cindy on May 03, 2015, 05:51:52 AM
This may sound silly.

Cis women don't worry that they are seen as trans*. So no one cares. Trans* women do. They get 'clocked' (horrible term).

I don't care. No one clocks me. If they do I don't care.

Quote from: lovelessheart on May 03, 2015, 12:59:56 AM
Last june. I only did partial ffs tho.... but I passed bfor ffs about 50 percnt of the time. Ive always had androgynous face.. but I am to gt more ffs... so maybe thats why... I just felt to past right now since everyone keeps telling me I dont need anything

This^^^ it says you passed about 50% of the time. Before FFS. It makes me wonder, how long have you been on HRT, and how long full time?
FFS and a good voice aren't All that's needed to pass. I'm sure you are passing much more then 50% of the time now tho, so instead of focusing on the times that it's happened. Why not focus on how much better than before it is you're passing? i would automatically think of mannerisms, behaviour, stuff like that.

Another thing I have noticed is many tgirls decide they are more comfortable with no make up on, hoodies and jeans and wouldn't touch a flowery dress cause they think it's overkill. I say wear whatever is your personality without overthinking things. Height won't have much, if at all to do with it. But I am still wondering about time on HRT and full time... If you simply posted a pic on your profile it would be easy to tell you. Obviously you're the kind that isn't comfortable sharing anything on here. Which I think it's a little paranoid but we do what we can to help from whatever info you provide. Living in complete stealth from new dates and relationships isn't a very healthy thing to do either. There was a story I read of a couple in Belgium and she didn't tell her husband, many years later like 30, he found out, left her not just because she was trans but because he felt lied to and like she didn't care for him enough to tell him the truth early on or at all!! It was a very sad story. I am stealth to a degree. Only my BF and my birth family know. Expecting more than that is asking for trouble!

Anyhow many hugs your way. If you haven't at least been on HRT and full time for at least 2 years then I would argue that there's where the issue lies.

Xo

Well if you don't like makeup you might think about some nourishing products for your face and hands...
maybe plant based and organic...
for example jojoba or coconut oil products (unless allergic)...

this could give you a fresh and well tended look, something people notice...

well concerning makeup some lipstick could also make a difference... you might simply give it a try...
you could look up a vid called "Plastic Surgery With MakeUp Fuller, Bigger Lips", its possible to do this with two lipsticks in unobtrusive colours.
A few minutes and its done... I'd also recommend organic, two lipstick and a pencil. I'd rather have a few items of good quality.

And imo part of it all is simply a natural aura... not too stiff, a bit relaxed, nice and easy gait... I'd say try to relax...

and if people misgender, which seems to be rare enough, you might think about taking it with humour... 


hugs

Quote from: lovelessheart on May 03, 2015, 12:59:56 AM
Last june. I only did partial ffs tho.... but I passed bfor ffs about 50 percnt of the time. Ive always had androgynous face.. but I am to gt more ffs... so maybe thats why... I just felt to past right now since everyone keeps telling me I dont need anything

I don't believe in 50 percent passing, I believe someone is either passable or not.  Passing takes a long time.  For me it took a few years.  It wasn't because of surgery but more hormones and softening everything, then combined with practice and living in the role.  Surgery only does so much, and I find with surgery less is more.  Too much surgery looks odd and often times brings attention and people start looking crazy. 

In my early years I thought I was the BOMB, and I thought no one knew.  I find a lot of trans go through this stage of denial.  For me, it took actually becoming passable to see the difference in experience than my younger years.  Is it possibly that you are just more aware?

5'8" is not that tall, unless you're in an area where women tend to be very short... a little taller than average, but not strikingly so. (I started at 5'8" myself. I was paranoid about it for years until various cis women friends laughed at me, and more than one pointed out that she was taller than I was and I didn't notice - one of my closest friends is 5'9" and still wears 4" heels.) I'm with others in wondering if it's partly that you're second-guessing yourself over questioning looks etc., because in my experience a perfect voice coupled with a reasonably feminine appearance adds up to blending in 99% of the time.

I am 5'10 and a half, and I have no problem wearing a pair of Christian Louboutains with a 4 inch heel.  Height has no different if you are in female height range, meaning 6'5 isn't female range.  Although the taller someone is the more real the rest of the package should be just because you will stand out more and get noticed so more eyes will be on you.