i feel very alone, and i guess i am seeking some validation.

i have never unambiguously passed as male or had anyone be significantly confused about my gender. once someone mistook me for a guy they knew from several blocks away, with my back turned, and on halloween some children couldn't tell my gender in costume. but apart from that, no matter how many tricks and tips i try, i don't seem to be getting any success in passing.

i keep seeing everyone telling stories about how they pass, even when they're not on testosterone, and it makes me feel jealous and sad. i hear people complain that they only "pass half of the time", and i think: i wish! it's gotten to the point i've convinced myself that i must not be trans because i'm not passing at all, since everyone else seems to be having these incidents. that i clearly must be doing something wrong or not caring enough about being male or nonbinary or whatever i am, because if i did care, i would be doing whatever i could to pass and be successful.

knowing that i'm so "female" that i don't even approach what pre-T or non-T people look like brings me to tears. i get so upset when i see people who consistently pass complain about how they look. even though i know they're suffering, i'm still angry that someone who looks so much better than me dares to find something wrong about aspects of their body and life i'd kill to have.

i guess i just want some commiseration and some ways to maybe cope with these feelings and lessen them a bit, because they're eating me up inside.

Epicenery, Regardless if we are FtM, MtF, non-binary or somewhere else along the scale ones passing isn't necessary based on hormones or even Genes. Often they are taking into account many things to determine your gender. How you dress, act, hair, and I could go on but I think you get the idea. Your actions and confidence can and will carry you a long ways when it comes to passing. I know you feel like your standing still compared to those around you. Just like your jealous of those on testosterone, I was jealous of those on estrogen coming into my transition. It's completely normal to have these feelings and you have every right too have them too. Have you tried some little things that can help change things for you and allow you to be more comfortable. Things like cutting your hair and changing the style to be in line with your authentic gender. A binder to help deal with your breasts so your chest resembles more closely the gender your transitioning too. Another thing I would reccomond is sharing these feelings with a therapist because they may have other ideas that we may not even think of that can help you. Good luck and hugs
Mariah

I know you've said you've tried numerous "tips and tricks", but how would you describe yourself in terms of how you present? Your haircut, style of dress, demeanor, etc. Perhaps we can provide some advice.

That being said, the fact is that some people may be totally unable to pass Pre-T. It's just how things play out. Sometimes the internet can create unrealistic expectations for people in terms of "passing". I'd say 70% of passing pre-t has to do with genetics, and the other 30% is things you can do, such as haircuts, body language, musclularity etc.

Now I'm not trying to put you down, but if you only focus on what others have and you don't, you will never be happy. I'm sure people who have lost limbs think the same of people taking for granted still having all of theirs. Like the old cliche goes, "the grass is always greener on the other side". Try not to dwell on what you don't have, and focus on other aspects of your life that are positive.

Do you plan to go on T one day? If you do, focus on that. Just because you don't pass currently doesn't make you any less trans. Try to think of your current self as just "temporary" if you plan on medically transitioning. For instance, tell yourself "I don't like what I look like right now, but in X amount of time I'm going to look exactly how I want to."

I'd say the best coping mechanism that will also aid your ability to present more masculine would be to take up weightlifting. Not only will it help you sculpt a more masculine physique, but (in my experience) helps you let out all that pent up rage, frustration, and sadness into something productive. You're punishing your body (in a good way) to turn it into something better.

hey mariah and aerozeppelin,

i've had my hair cut short for a few years now and just got a binder a few weeks ago. i've worn my binder out and about but it seems to have made no difference in how i'm perceived. my wardrobe is about 50% men's clothes, and i rarely wear anything particularly feminine (i don't expect to pass when i do, anyway). when i am wearing entirely men's clothes, even when i'm swaddled in 3 coats and a hat in winter, it does not really seem to help things though.

i honestly do not know exactly what is getting me pegged as unambiguously female. i know my voice is not masculine or male, and my mannerisms are a mix of feminine and masculine. but for example, i get "hello, ladies" or "greetings, ma'am" from store clerks as soon as i walk into stores, before i have a chance to open my mouth or express much about myself through body language. it must be something people are able to read immediately.

mariah, it may be as you said a matter of confidence. i am very unsure about my gender identity and very anxious as a person in general. maybe it's true that increasing my confidence will help.

aerozeppelin, i'm still in the process of figuring things out about what i want to do with my body and w/r/t medical transition. i'm not sure yet whether i want to go on T, even though i do want a lot of the changes. in any case, i am on the borderline of being overweight so exercise of some sort might help me in more ways than just passing. i've been trying to start slow right now with walking, biking, and doing gardening and stuff as i'm in the process of recovering from severe depression and still have trouble with energy levels and that sort of thing.

Confidence can really affect mannerisms, poster and how we handle are bodies in general sending of signals we don't even realize we are sending off. Good luck and Hugs.
Mariah

I think a great deal of 'passing' is mannerisms and other behaviors. Unfortunately, many are not taught those behaviors as young men and suffer because of it.

I can very much relate to your situation as I am pre-T as well and I have only ever been taken for a young boy once. For me, anyway, being constantly misgendered has probably made me feel even more eager to start T.

But as others said perhaps trying more of a masculine hair cut, keeping your hips level when standing or walking, standing straighter, etc. might help. Also I have seen some people contour with makeup and look surprisingly more masculine.

I never passed pre-T. I suppose maybe in my youth-- there weren't binders (or at least I didn't know about them). I agree weights would probably help. People with estrogen in their system can build muscle but be patient because it isn't nearly as effective.

I think most of the tips and tricks are only useful if you already have a more masculine face and appearance. But weights might help.

--Jay

One of my best friends has an extremely feminine face, and he's unfortunately lost all hope of passing without hormones. Tips and Tricks listed online can only go so far. I think he's resigned himself to not passing right now, but I know it's extremely hard to accept and it still upsets him a lot. Several of my friends are this way, and it is somewhat common. I know there are plenty of guys who NEEDED hormones to pass, but sadly, not as many of them make posts about it, probably because they aren't excited about themselves like the guys who pass a lot pre-T. I wish I had some good advice to give you, but I was never in your situation, I only know people who are :C

I can sort of relate though, to an extent. Pre-T I actually passed about 75% of the time though. I started T in September, expecting that number to go up, or at the very least, stay the same. However, I was sorely wrong. My passing dropped to 0% by the time I was on hormones for 4 months. For over two months I never got gendered correctly a single time. I finally started to get a few 'sir's here and there at about 6.5 months. I am still hardly ever passing and I am nearly 8 months on T now. I still get unbelievably excited about a 'sir' when I used to be so accustomed to it. People told me it was because I dyed my hair, however, I cut the dye out and it barely helped at all. So I don't know what's wrong. It is so incredibly discouraging to once have passed, but not once I started hormones. So in a way, I can relate. I'm not doing anything wrong, I've tried everything I can to fix it, but I simply cannot pinpoint what about me screams 'female.' Every single person I ask tells me that they cannot understand why I don't pass, and while I know they mean well, it actually really hurts, because as you said, I am doing everything I should be doing to pass, but for some stupid reason, it isn't working.

I didn't pass pre-T. My voice wasn't crazy feminine but I think it was more presentation because I didn't dare get a haircut with my mom not really accepting my trans status when I came out. Even now, my cheek fat deposits are still there and it will remain there considering my older brother has the baby face.

Pre-T I had exactly the same problem. I couldnt have done anything else to possibly make it any more obvious but it was continual misgendering. I have dressed 'male' my entire life, haircuts, how I spoke, everything. None of it made any difference what so ever. When I was first at the GIC and they were asking how I was passing and I said never they were all surprised and had no idea why not. Never been anything even remotely feminine about me so I have absoluely no clue what they were imagining was there. That was including wearing 2 binders, my voice was already at the high end of the male range before I even started T.. none of it made a bit of difference. I was seen as male occasionally when I was much younger but since then pretty much not at all despite how obvious I was about it. It took me 4 months on T before I passed for the first time and havent been misgendered once since then

So with me it wasnt down to clothing, it wasnt down to how I look (haircut, binding etc), it shouldnt really have been my voice pitch wise and how I speak as im naturally monotone anyway (and i was misgendered before I even opened my mouth anyway), my mannerisms are naturally male too.. everything. Still instant misgendering. Even when I would go out feeling confident in how I looked and how male i was it didnt make the slightest bit of difference so I cant say that confidence makes any difference at all

Wish I could help but when it happened to me too and i have absolutely no clue why i cant really help that much. All i could suggest is (if you have the confidence to) ask someone that addresses you in that manner why they saw you that way, what is it thats making them do that? If its a small thing in how you look then maybe you could work on that to stop it, unless its structure wise then not much can be done but it depends what it is really. It can help to know though. I would have loved to know but I have zero confidence and theres no way I could have asked them. If you are more able to talk to people than me though you could try it and see what they say. If they are reading you that way there has to be a reason for it. Our brains gender people pretty much instantly so they might not even be aware of it or why they got that result but it could be worth asking if you wanted to. If several say the same thing then you can have your culprit which can help you to work on whatever it is. In any case you're certainly not alone with not passing pre-T. The lucky guys do, the rest of us somewhere in the middle or not at all. Some of us really need T to despite what we do beforehand to be as obvious about it as possible

thanks for the responses everyone, it makes me feel better to know that i'm not alone in this and that there are people also like me who have or had trouble passing.

i could probably try even harder to pass, but i'm not incredibly masculine as a person and don't feel like i want to "bro" it up to compensate for whatever female-ness is still in me. i'm not sure what i would do anyway.

i also have un-accepting parents so it's hard to know how to get more male-looking or androgynous without setting off their alarm bells. this ultimately might be my biggest problem, actually.

i think weights and exercise will probably help some-- when i was very thin years ago, in LGBT spaces sometimes i was mistaken for being a trans woman. now that i'm much less feminine in presentation it's possible i would appear more like a guy or at least ambiguous. time to step to it, i guess. lol.

When I lived in a very rural area, I was passing about half the time. Once I moved to a large, liberal city, I almost never pass. I'm two and s half months in T at this point, and not passing most of the time.
So I'm saying location has something to do with passing, too.
It helps me to spend time with friends who use the correct pronouns. It lets me relax a little. I also try to upend the misgendering situation and just imagine how awkward the other person feels when they figure it out/get corrected. Then I have the power to let them off the hook. It's tiny, but helps my brain.

I never pass, full stop. I think my face and body shape are just too unambiguously feminine. I have given up on the idea of passing pre-t and I deal with OK as long as I can tell myself that I will be on t in the future (for me that will hopefully be next year).

As others have said, passing is a very complex thing depending on many factors, including self-confidence. For me, the assumption that I don't pass anyway certainly contributes to not passing. But this doesn't mean you won't pass in the future, once you're on t! Hang on in there!