I'm posting this in the general section because I figured that it could apply (even in reverse) to people of various gender and sexual identities.

Lately, I've been thinking a lot about having a family (something I've always wanted) and the apparent evolution of how I experience attraction.  So, until last year, I always considered myself a reproductive dead-end because I just *assumed* that I would marry a cisgender woman, and I wasn't counting on the technology (that actually may soon exist) that might allow me to have biological kids with them.  I think this made my evaluation of the pros and cons of going on T easier because it would have been fine if I were to be rendered sterile.  Then, I fell in love with a woman who happened to be trans and pre- anything.  And one day, I was just looking at a picture of her and thinking about how beautiful she was, and the thought popped into my head "we would have really cute kids," and then, I realized, "wait a minute, we could have kids!"  It was a completely life-changing realization. 

Fast forward to nearly a year later, and we're no longer together.  I'm still attracted to cisgender women, physically and emotionally, but it's not the same as it used to be.  Now, there are these two things that have changed in my perception and in the way I experience attraction: 1) that transgender women are more likely to understand certain aspects of my experiences that a cisgender woman simply can't, and 2) I feel like a jerk saying it, and it's not to devalue cisgender women at all but... I mean, a transgender woman could potentially give me genetic children (though, that's no guaranteed), and that's not something that a cisgender woman could do currently. 

I feel guilty because it's like I'm making a judgement call partially based on, at best, uncertain reproductive compatibility (it's totally possible that due to hormones/ genetics we might not be).  I also can't help but wonder if I'm only *thinking* that this is a driving reason for the change in how intensely I feel attraction, and it's really more the shared experience bit.  It's not the sexual anatomy because I'm equally attracted to pre-/non-op and post-op trans women.  I'm a person who very much lives in his head so, the knowledge that a woman (whom I'd be attracted to anyway) shares some of my experiences makes her honestly much higher of a priority to me than someone who will never have these experiences.  To put it bluntly, there are more cisgender women whom I meet and am attracted to, but I don't have a sort of visceral attraction to them the way that I seem to only experience with transgender women lately - and I used to have that attraction.

I dunno...  I'm not sure what to do with these feelings or why I'm having them.  Is it because the clock is chiming along?  Is it because of experience?  Do I *actually* have a preference for certain physical characteristics that are simply less common among cisgender women?  I don't know the answers to these questions, and it kind of scares me because I don't like not knowing the origins of my feelings.

Thoughts?  Similar experiences?  Am I just being a jerk?  I don't want to be *that* guy who will *only* date someone based on whether or not they're transgender or cisgender... yet, I recognize that attractions exist for a reason (many reasons) so, I also don't want to just invalidate my own feelings, either.

Thanks in advance.  Sorry for the difficult topic.

At one point in my life it was important for me to be able to have my own kids. I thought I would never love adopted kids as if they were my own. Then my sister tells me she's given up on her body and she's going to adopt. It didn't feel right...at first. Now her daughter is just as much my niece as my other sister's daughter is my niece. Not to mention the 3 nephews I have all biological. In the end it really doesn't matter. Family isn't about blood its about the people that mean everything to you.

That made it a lot easier when I started hormones to just flat out say...I'm not freezing it. I'll never be a biological father and I'm ok with that. Although technically....my daughter was miss-carried 3 months into the pregnancy. I was certainly her biological father, but she never had a chance to see the light of day. She would be 14 this year.

Might your troubles come from combining two questions that would be easier to answer separately:
1. Do I want to have a bio kid?
2. What sort of person do I want to settle down with?
When you consider them together, they're baffling, but have you thought about considering them separately?

If you decide you want to have a bio kid, go ahead and do it. Get seminal fluid from somewhere and have a kid. Yes, raising a kid as a single dad is tough, but even if you have a kid with a partner, no guarantee you'll stay together.

Then go about finding a life partner. Many women, cis or trans, will not be put off by someone who already has a child. You'll not have to worry about what "type" you'll go for. You'll meet someone you mesh with and connect.

Would thinking about it that way make it any easier?

Quote from: suzifrommd on April 27, 2015, 05:09:48 PM
Might your troubles come from combining two questions that would be easier to answer separately:
1. Do I want to have a bio kid?
2. What sort of person do I want to settle down with?
When you consider them together, they're baffling, but have you thought about considering them separately?

If you decide you want to have a bio kid, go ahead and do it. Get seminal fluid from somewhere and have a kid. Yes, raising a kid as a single dad is tough, but even if you have a kid with a partner, no guarantee you'll stay together.

Then go about finding a life partner. Many women, cis or trans, will not be put off by someone who already has a child. You'll not have to worry about what "type" you'll go for. You'll meet someone you mesh with and connect.

Would thinking about it that way make it any easier?

It could be that you're right.  I guess the first question is the hard one because I'm not sure if I'd want to use a surrogate unless it was to have a child with someone I loved - if that makes sense...  Like, I personally don't need a genetic child alone - I would have no problem loving an adopted child just as much as a genetic child, but if I *could* have a child with someone I loved, I think that would be awesome because then that child would actually be a part of the person I loved and a part of me, genetically (obviously, any child would be a part of me regardless).  The other issue is that adopting can be very difficult.

I'm not actually at a stage where I could have children.  I'm in graduate school, and simply am not financially stable enough to afford either adoption or surrogacy.  I'd like to start a family in about 5-8 years, though.  I have already decided that if I'm (sadly) still single once I'm tucked into a tenure-track faculty position, that I will adopt or use a surrogate.  Hopefully, it would be possible to start a family with someone before then.

As far as what kind of person I'd like to marry...  I mean, I know the qualities that I like, but sometimes I feel hopeless.  Not hopeless because I'm trans but just, like, I dunno...  Argh.  I'm not articulating this well at all, partially because I don't really know what I want because I'm so inexperienced in this facet of life. 

Quote from: Ian68 on April 27, 2015, 06:06:27 PM
As far as what kind of person I'd like to marry...  I mean, I know the qualities that I like, but sometimes I feel hopeless.  Not hopeless because I'm trans but just, like, I dunno...  Argh.  I'm not articulating this well at all, partially because I don't really know what I want because I'm so inexperienced in this facet of life. 

Hugs, Ian. This is tough stuff. Everyone stews over their future.

In your case, it's a question of priorities. Since you're not in a position to have a kid if you transition now, you pretty much freeze yourself out of having a bio kid. So it's a question of which is more important.

These kinds of trade-offs are tough because when you decide, you're giving up something big. I had a similar situation a few years ago: Forego transition or lose my 20+ year marriages. I stewed for months, but in the end I had to choose.

I suspect your heart will tell you which direction to go in. Until then, we're here for you. Hang in there.

Well, I won't actually be giving up the ability to have genetic kids by the medical transitioning I'm going to do.  I'm going to have top surgery, and go on T for a while (probably a year), and sterility hasn't been reported that I know of in anyone who took T for less than a few years.  I won't have a hysterectomy or SRS, either.  I'm very intentionally trying to preserve my viability.  Haha.

I dunno, it's frustrating bc I can hear the clock ticking but I can't do anything about it.  If I wanted to have a kid in the next few years, literally my only option would be to physically carry the child, and I don't ever want to do that - though, I admire the guys who have. 

Sometimes I feel lonely, like I'm too difficult to love.  But then I also feel that I'm not putting in the effort bc I'm always thinking long-term, and like "would I want to have a family with this woman? Do we share the same values?  Does she challenge me to think differently?  Is she happy?  Do I like myself with her?" and the list goes on and on...  Sometimes I feel very strongly that I want to be with someone, and have this great love, but sometimes I feel that I just want to find, like, a mother for my children (i.e. someone I love enough to have a family with).  I know that they don't need to be mutually-exclusive but sometimes, I really just feel hopeless about this.

Thanks for listening to me whine...

The thought of "fathering" a child is too much for me as a woman, not the standard way, not using IVF, not in a box, not even if give me lox, I will not father a child I say, absolutely, positively no way... 

my post was terrible, but you are free to make suggestions to turn it into proper Dr. Seuss form 

That's fair.  I guess that I see gender as so totally disconnected from sex (for myself and for others), that I would never feel like I was anything but the father of any child I had, genetic or otherwise.  And I'd never think of any woman with whom I had children as anything other than that child's mother.  Eggs and sperm are just cool clusters of DNA.  It doesn't matter the gender of the person they come from.  So, if I *did* happen to marry someone, and we were able to use a surrogate (i.e. she was also trans and could reproduce either from banking or whatever), I'd still see that child (undoubtedly because of my tradition background despite my deep feminism) as very much having been brought into the world by my wife.  Even if I could physically have the kid (I couldn't bc I just don't have that degree of control over my dysphoria), I'd still see it that way.  It's impossible for me to see it in any other way. 

I dunno, I don't need to have a genetic child, though, I'll be the last of my line if I don't...  Ultimately, I just want a family, and I don't care how that's made.  I would never reject anyone for not being able to have kids (either with me or at all).  This is part of what makes me think that my apparent preference really is the shared experieve component.  Maybe it's just important to me to feel understood? >.<

Quote from: rachel89 on April 27, 2015, 10:37:52 PM
my post was terrible, but you are free to make suggestions to turn it into proper Dr. Seuss form 

Just different perspectives is all.  In my mind, it's actually impossible for me to "mother" because I'm a man, and that's just not how that works. Haha.  But that's my world view, which has nothing to do with yours. 

More than a few trans-women have children but as cute and funny as the terms is, I really don't want to be a "moppa" :

The only context in which that terms makes any sense is if that is what a lesbian couple who have been together for a long time as an ostensibly heterosexual couple come up with as a solution in their situation.

The only guaranteed difference between a transgender person and a cisgender person is that they're transgender. If I had a genetic child, I would be that child's father.  Period.  If a transgender woman has a child post-/ during any type of transition (also pre- IMO but I don't pretend to govern other people's families), she is that child's mother (unless she happens to be a butch lesbian and prefers to be referred to as a father - that's a choice that an individual has a right to make). 

Regardless of if I have genetic or adopted kids, I'm a very protective person.  If I marry a woman who's transgender or cisgender, I will never abide anyone trying to demean them, not for who they are, how they're built, or for how they live their life (including, in that case, loving a man who's transgender).  To tolerate that sort of behavior even for one second, even once because it's a Monday, or you're tired, or grumpy, or have a cold, or whatever, is impossible for me.  But then, this unyielding nature is part of why I'm still single probably, haha. 

I'm not even entirely sure if I want children, but I hope that one day uterus transplants will be available and work well. sometimes I feel a little sad when I see young mothers and pregnant women, knowing that will probably not be part of my future. I would consider adoption though.

Honestly, my *only* issue with adoption is that I know how important having a family is to me, and I am terrified of adopting a child, and them having their birth parent/s showing up at some point.  I could not tolerate that.  Unless I adopt a child who looks very different from me (which is totally possible), I have no intention of telling them they're adopted until it is medically necessary (for family history stuff).  I would be completely heartbroken if I had a kid actively look for their birth parent/s unless they needed to for some health reason. 

We all have different priorities.  It's clear as I'm typing this how much of a priority having a family is for me.  I *did* grow up Catholic so, maybe that's part of it, haha!  I used to want, like, 6-8 kids. Now, I want 2-4, and probably no more than 3, really because I couldn't afford their education, and I'd have no time, bahhahaha!! XD

Yeah, the clock, it's ticking for sure... Hahaha!

In my sister's case the mother normally didn't want any of her dozen+ children, but for some reason she put up a fight on this one. However in the end she showed the court by not showing up more than once she didn't really give a crap. Ultimately my sister wasn't allowed to finalize the adoption until after all this got worked out, but she no longer has legal rights of any kind to her daughter anymore. However it took two years for the adoption to be finalized. A big part of this was because California's laws are terrible. I believe its supposed to go quicker in most states. I have no idea what kind of rights the birth parents usually have though.

just a little clarification, I didn't invent the term moppa, I stole it from "Transparent" 

Quote from: rachel89 on April 28, 2015, 07:53:59 PM
just a little clarification, I didn't invent the term moppa, I stole it from "Transparent" 

I'm not familiar with "Transparent."  I see that it's a comedy series, though, and therefore utterly useless in my opinion.*  Still, I respect the rights of others to structure their families as works best for them.  I just had an immediate reaction to that term in a general context because it seems to downgrade mothers who are transgender, as if by virtue of being able to contribute sperm rather than eggs, they're somehow less of a mother - that simply is not true.  *If* I do end up marrying a woman who is also transgender, and *if* we decide to have genetic children, one thing I'm going to very strictly control that she's the first person the child is handed off to from the doctors because they always hand the baby to the mom first.  I can't abide anyone being treated as different simply because they're trans, but I get a *tiny bit* militant about it when it's directed at trans women bc of sexism in general, and bc of the statistics of violence and institutional discrimination.  It terrifies me to think of having a daughter someday when there are people in our own country who think women are nothing but baby-ovens and house maids.**

*I despise most comedies so, sorry if this offends anyone.  I like humor, like, West Wing type humor, and sometimes Bill Mahr..., sometimes...
**I actually run what has unintentionally become a transfeminist blog... I am super passionate about this stuff, haha.

Yes, "Transparent" is a comedy, but it's a heavy comedy or a light drama.  It's a comedy the way "Orange is the New Black" is a comedy.

I don't watch that show, either.  Honestly, the only TV shows I watch are  Sherlock, documentary types, DIY, and I re-watch West Wing, The L Word, and Nip/Tuck (rarely). 

I saw a meme recently that went like this: "I don't care about whose DNA has recombined with whose. When everything goes to hell, the people who stand by you without flinching, they are your family."

Another was "Blood is just blood. Family is loyalty."

I don't know what to say about the specific yearnings you are feeling but I do know there are many happy, supportive, and very functional families where the children were all adopted.