Quote from: Ms Grace on May 07, 2015, 01:43:16 AM
True. I guess I was hoping for an environment in which I could avoid scrutiny and/or being chatted up by men. Seems I got the scrutiny after all.

Well maybe this could help some:
women sometimes have a feeling they are pursued by men.
So in a women only space they can feel more free of that ( some continue to feel pursued by women ... a smile might go a long way in that case... ).

Well its up to you what you do... its difficult to say how they might react...

imo a bit of openness might help... also it might take out a bit of emotion, and help understand...

I'd say you don't do this to look at women...
you do it because you identify as woman...

and you are on hormone therapy which supresses masculinity...
and there are waiting lists for operations many months long...
and not everyone wants to undergo an operation...
you would give them a copy that you are on hormone therapy for x months...

One possibility would be to try this with this studio (maybe in writing),
another to try another studio...


if you try another you might look up some comments on reputations...


hugs

Quote from: Jayne on May 07, 2015, 03:33:59 AM
Maybe they should spend less time building their arm & leg muscles and excercise the rapidly shrinking muscle between their ears...

heehee! I'm considering a written response to the gym if they follow up with me at the end of my one week free trial... I think I might slot that in there somewhere.

To be honest this has shaken my confidence somewhat but I'm trying to not let it get to me or get me down. After that face slap I went out for lunch, it was a lovely day so I went to cafe in the nearby park and sat in the sun while I ate, then I went shopping to buy a pressie for my mother who I'm having lunch with tomorrow - at least the women at the local Body Shop love to see me which helped lift my mood!

Quote from: Laura_7 on May 07, 2015, 03:53:42 AM
I'd say you don't do this to look at women...
you do it because you identify as woman...

and you are on hormone therapy which supresses masculinity...
and there are waiting lists for operations many months long...
and not everyone wants to undergo an operation...
you would give them a copy that you are on hormone therapy for x months...

One possibility would be to try this with this studio (maybe in writing),

I might slot that into the letter too...

After the step class I was a bit wobbly on my feet - hadn't jumped around that much in a while!! But I still had presence of mind to give a little smile at any woman who looked my way. During the class there was this brief moment where I felt "this is exactly right" - pre transition I had done any number of yoga classes with all women and while I felt I was one of the girls I "wasn't" in the mind of those women... but in the class, for the first time ever I did feel that. It was great. But fairly fleeting obviously.

Even if I had had surgery I wouldn't be going back there with my "letter of proof", to be called out and doubted like that was utterly mortifying. Even if I was "with vag" I figure the close minded biatches there would be quite happy to out me to all and sundry like they did to the woman who inducted me. Not a safe space.

You might look up reputations of other studios...
its possible some are easy going...

Quote from: Ms Grace on May 07, 2015, 04:05:58 AM
Even if I had had surgery I wouldn't be going back there with my "letter of proof", to be called out and doubted like that was utterly mortifying. Even if I was "with vag" I figure the close minded biatches there would be quite happy to out me to all and sundry like they did to the woman who inducted me.

Well there might just be some members who consider this "their" beat and look over some new members... cis or trans... and talk about it.
Its well possible management knows this... 
Also depending on the time of day, there might be really different people there... its like in a public bath, where the kind of people present changes a lot during the day.
I wouldn't take it all too seriously .

hugs

Quote from: Laura_7 on May 07, 2015, 04:25:54 AM
I wouldn't take it all too seriously .

Well, I kind of am. I feel sorry for any other trans sister who might want to use that gym (or their franchised affiliates) if that's the kind of reception they can expect. And yes, I might have been really unlucky to encounter the one transphobe turf watcher in the entire club quite happy to out me but if I went back there I'd be forever second guessing who else might know or not, either through deduction or gossip or through complaining to management. Not a safe space.

And I'm taking it personally too. So I "prove myself worthy" to management, would they issue me with a "Proof of Vadge Badge" that I could flash to anyone who started looking at me askance? Yeah, no. Not a safe place.

Wow! Sorry to hear it, Grace.

Such behavior would be breaking the law in here in NJ. They wouldn't dare.

I should add that I totally understand that many women feel they need safe spaces, specifically male free spaces where they don't have to deal with men and the stuff that certain men who don't respect boundaries get up to. I understand and support that 100%. But it's attitudes that penis=man/vagina=woman that means all trans people get caught in the middle of that regardless of their genital configuration. I'm a woman who feels she needs a safe space too but being trans apparently makes some women see me as unsafe.

Quote from: Ms Grace on May 07, 2015, 04:36:57 AM
And I'm taking it personally too.

Well apart from taking appropriate steps to educate people...
don't forget your own fun... sometimes its better to keep a cool head, and not take things and persons too personal...
keep enyoing the sunshine, as you said.

Quote from: Ms Grace on May 07, 2015, 04:36:57 AM
I'm a woman who feels she needs a safe space too but being trans apparently makes some women see me as unsafe.

Well its a fear you might simply adress or talk about if necessary... now that you know...


hugs 

Quote from: Ms Grace on May 06, 2015, 10:21:29 PM
Had my first gym experience today. It was a women's only gym but apparently what they mean by that is vagina only gym.

Signed up for my free week and got shown around, no problems. The woman who inducted me was really nice. I felt comfortable enough to try a step class. My first ever, but I survived! That was the good part.

You know how you can work out the bitches pretty quickly? Had them spotted in an instant... in the weight equipment section. Got some rather unfriendly looks so I can only gather they had read me. That was the bad part.

When I was finished the step class, the woman who inducted my gave me my temporary membership card. Then she says in a hushed tone "I have to ask, it's just that our policy...do you have proof of surgery?" I was pretty shocked - do I tell the truth, tell a lie, or tell a really big lie and feign insult that she even dare suggest that I wasn't bio. I went with the lie, said yes I did, she said she'd need to see it, that some of the ladies had asked her (weight training bitches I'm looking at you), and she thought I was lovely but that she had to ask me. So that was the ugly part.

I'm pretty upset and disappointed. I gather the majority of the women there had no idea I was trans it wasn't until some cis privileged cows protecting their vagina only domain decided I was suss that the wheels fell off. I've decided I'm not going back. Even if I did have the documentation I don't think I would go back. What a disgrace.

Ugh this sucks I totally feel you but Ima add my 2 cents. Although its wrong and ignorant, some people arent comfortable with it and still see us as male, especially if we have male genetailia. Yes our gender is female but without srs our sex is still male and I know its HARD to view it their way, but I kind of understand why some people will feel uncomfortable, especially for girls who choose to sign up in an all girls gym as they most likely did cause they felt uncomfortable with (penis). Not everyone is educated and not everyone accepts it and we must accept their decision. But if you were disrespected blatantly (called names etc) thats totally not tolerable.

Thanks, but just to be clear, I wasn't called names (at least not to my face). I totally get your point and I agree that some women will find the idea of someone with a penis in their midsts (a "man") would be disconcerting if they'd signed up for the all gal experience. The thing is, I'm not an entitlist, I just feel they should be more explicit that by "Women's Gym" they really mean "Women with vaginas and preferably "cis" in appearance if they happen to be trans Gym". Besides, it's not like I was waving my Itsy Bitsy teeny weenie around, I went to a lot of trouble to make sure it was extra tucked away and barely a mound even under gym tights. Try doing a jump class in that!  That's real dedication!

Anyway, I agree with Laura - obviously education is in order. But I  also really don't feel like  having to justify myself or my gender to them.

Quote from: Ms Grace on May 07, 2015, 05:47:08 AM

Anyway, I agree with Laura - obviously education is in order. But I  also really don't feel like  having to justify myself or my gender to them.

You shouldn't have to justify yourself, maybe the gym should ask these weight lifters to undertake a sexuality test to make sure none of them are making women uncomfortable with their leering, methinks they have given a hint that they were "leering" at your body a bit too closely as proper tucking shouldn't give any clues.

Sorry to be late to the party - seems the most serious threads happen when I'm fast asleep.

1. I do NOT agree you need to disclose you are trans up front. It is none of their business. You are a woman and have a right to use women's facilities.

2. I would talk to someone as high up in management of the gym as I could and find out whether the it's an official policy or just the opinion of one employee to ask trans women about their down-below. Even if it's not a question of discrimination, saying to someone "cut yourself up or we won't let you in" is pure evil. I suspect this is a product of ignorance on the part of the woman who said that and not an official policy.

3. I would not wait. I would address this while it's still fresh in everyone's mind.

Hugs, Grace. Thank you for standing up for all of us.

I'm really sad that happened to you Grace.  Well let them keep their nasty little girls' club then, I'm sure there must be other gyms around that don't have a vj only policy.

Hi Grace,

Sorry you had to deal with the genital door policy of whatever that gym was- it wasn't in RedFERN was it?

I don't know if this link is of any use

http://www.antidiscrimination.justice.nsw.gov.au/adb/adb1_antidiscriminationlaw/adb1_types/adb1_transgender.html

It does seem to suggest that this can be a bit of a grey area, with no court precedents:

The situation is more complicated for single-sex clubs. If you are a recognised transgender person you have the right to be a member of a single sex club for people of the gender with which you identify, in the same way as any other person of that gender. It would be transgender discrimination to refuse you membership because you are transgender.

If you are not a recognised transgender person the law is not quite so clear. Generally, it is against the law for any club to treat you unfairly for being transgender. The law says that a single-sex club can keep its status as single- sex if it admits a transgender person who identifies with the sex of that club

However, whether you are able to insist on attending the single sex club of either your birth gender or your identified gender is unclear. There have been no court cases on this part of the law yet that could provide interpretation. So if you are having trouble getting or keeping your membership of a single sex club, please contact the Anti-Discrimination Board for advice.

You were obviously far too good for them anyway!!

Quote from: rosinstraya on May 07, 2015, 08:51:27 AM
Hi Grace,

Sorry you had to deal with the genital door policy of whatever that gym was- it wasn't in RedFERN was it?

I don't know if this link is of any use

http://www.antidiscrimination.justice.nsw.gov.au/adb/adb1_antidiscriminationlaw/adb1_types/adb1_transgender.html

It does seem to suggest that this can be a bit of a grey area, with no court precedents:

The situation is more complicated for single-sex clubs. If you are a recognised transgender person you have the right to be a member of a single sex club for people of the gender with which you identify, in the same way as any other person of that gender. It would be transgender discrimination to refuse you membership because you are transgender.

If you are not a recognised transgender person the law is not quite so clear. Generally, it is against the law for any club to treat you unfairly for being transgender. The law says that a single-sex club can keep its status as single- sex if it admits a transgender person who identifies with the sex of that club.

You were obviously too good for the anyway!!

However, whether you are able to insist on attending the single sex club of either your birth gender or your identified gender is unclear. There have been no court cases on this part of the law yet that could provide interpretation. So if you are having trouble getting or keeping your membership of a single sex club, please contact the Anti-Discrimination Board for advice.

What is the requirement to be a "recognized transgender person?" Is it surgery or simply a doctor's statement?

I'm much more of a b**ch than you, Grace. That kind of thing burns my blood! I would have told her, "you first, right here, right now!" Then I would have stormed out.

Luckily for all concerned, the nearest gym to me is "Planet Fitness".

sorry you experienced that

Hi Grace, so sorry that you had to go through that garbage. Sounds like the reverse we had here in the states in Michigan at Planet Fitness where they revoked a cis-womans membership when she started running them down about allowing pre-op transwomen use their preferred locker room. PF said their policy is for the person to use the locker room for which they identity as.


Big Hug! You look fantastic, only wished I could look that good.

The thought of a gym is terrifying to me. I CAN'T be in the men's locker room. I'm not sure I feel comfortable in the ladies room either. I don't want them to see me and since I'm sure I don't pass I don't think they want me to see them either.

Grace, that's horrible. I'm so sorry this happened to you. All I can say is that they'll never know what they're missing -- they'll never have a member who is kinder, classier, and, yes, more "ladylike" than you.

Lets be careful in how we depict certain groups. I think we can all agree that some people are uncomfortable with us in there private spaces and as a result some members are super sensitive about this issue too.
Mariah