Well
I was once the dude of dudes!
Had no idea so many guy friends looked up to me.
Several just seem to be disappearing. It's not like they did anything but drifting away.
Why? In the beginning I felt it was because I am trans.
Seems non are judging me, they just miss Doug. They see me know and I am not him at all
I get it and I am having to accept that I can't be their buddy. I have girl friends now more than ever. I can't hang with the dudes.
So it seems it has nothing to do with anything but loss of Doug. He died, us no longer around.
So I embrace myself and move on. I like being female, doing nails, hair and shopping.
I have tried to be friends with the dudes but from what I am told they all miss Doug and mourn the loss.
It's weird like listening to people talk after you die.
Kinda pisses me off sometimes !!
Dodie/Keri

I'd be willing to bet it's exactly that - they feel like "Doug" died. What they aren't seeing is that "Doug" was never, really, truly "Doug". Who he became - who you are now - is who he really was the whole time. And in a way, he -did- die. He sacrificed himself so that Dodie - you - could be...born, in a sense. But that's not something that most people will ever be able to see, or even if they do see it, they won't be able to understand it.

That's transitioning. In becoming who we truly are, the person we presented as beforehand must perish. We're phoenixes, really - that identity, that physical shell, must burn away, revealing the...truth beneath the lie, so to speak. And they may feel like you're responsible for the death of the person they knew, as though you walked up to him, shot him in the head, and took over his life without them knowing, and now that you're truly yourself, it's like you'd been wearing his face as a mask, which in all technicality you have. They may feel betrayed. I know that when I came out, several of my friends told me they "didn't know me anymore" and that "had they known when they met me, things would have been different"...different in the sense that they would not have bothered befriending me.

Ultimately, one true fact remains - you are a beautiful phoenix, risen from the ashes of a former life. You have been reborn. And how many people can say that, in the sense that they are literally a new person?

Aw, gee :~(

Yeah, I know that feeling too.

I have no choice but to accept and respect it. Yes, I'm the same person, but I *am* very different as well, especially in the eyes of others.

I can't expect my relationships to be the same as they were before.

This was always going to involve sacrifices. But I guess, all things really worth having are like that, right?

It is a bit weird.  I mean, same monkeys, different barrel, right?  I never really fit in with the fantasy football, poker tournament or gearhead guys, but all the guys I used to jam with all the time are mostly "too busy with other things" now.  Guys I'd see every week are guys I see once or twice a year now.   I guess I'm seen as "one of the girls" now, but I guess that's OK.  I like my circle of girlfriends, and I seem to be a much better fit with them anyway.  I have a lot more fun being silly and snarky with them than pretending to give a s*** about bragging rights and how many yards Tom Brady threw for last week.

I wouldn't get to stressed out about it. My observation over the years is it's unusual for most guys to have a very close friendship with a girl unless there is a desire to have the friendship develop along romantic lines. Even if they are all real o.k. with the concept of your transition the friend dynamic has totally changed now. Doesn't seem real strange that they are drifting away. I think it's just the nature of the difference in how men and women make and maintain friendships......

I agree with lostcharlie - some guys, especially the dude-bro types don't really know how to be friends with women unless it involves being in a relationship (and even then). Some of them might even find you attractive which can really confuse them! I didn't have that many male friends to begin with, they were easy going non macho considerate guys - they've been supportive and accepting of my transition but at the same time they have readjusted the nature of their friendship with me, I'm now a female friend not a dude friend and that has different boundaries - certain things are no longer discussed!

We're unique in that we've been on the inner circle of guys.  We know what they talk about, and what they stop talking about the second they know a woman is in ear shot.  So I agree that it's probably more about them treating you like a woman instead of one of the guys.  It's part of our culture...it's ingrained into them.

Quote from: katiej on May 07, 2015, 05:49:30 PM
We're unique in that we've been on the inner circle of guys.  We know what they talk about, and what they stop talking about the second they know a woman is in ear shot.  So I agree that it's probably more about them treating you like a woman instead of one of the guys.  It's part of our culture...it's ingrained into them.

It's so true about the same-sex group dynamic when suddenly it isn't.   

I heard about this guy I knew from uni, he was at a dinner party with several other friends...four female one other male who was a close friend of mine. As soon as he was alone with the guy he just blurted out "there are four vaginas in the next room!!". Apparently he needed a "guy/guy" moment to debrief on the glaringly obvious.

Quote from: katiej on May 07, 2015, 05:49:30 PM
We're unique in that we've been on the inner circle of guys. 

Some guys dig that :~) The highly-intelligent variety ...

Hi Keri, yeah definitely agree, they miss Doug, the fun men things, sports cars or whatever it was.... Also as Katie said, probably a little scared of you because you were one of them, so knowing how their minds work is probably a bit of it.

And as Grace said they can't talk smutty with you about...

But hey, life's a revolving door, in with the new ... Anyway us Girls are much more Fun!

Hey as they grow up, some may want to be your friends again, you never know.

L Katy 

Unfortunately, society is still very gender-segregated...  It is getting better but it's an issue.  I think the underlying problem is that it's *assumed* that men and women can't ever be "just friends," and that there must be some hidden sexual agenda.  Where transgender people are concerned, this dynamic can become even more rigid, because of things like, for example, a straight girl suddenly being attracted to her transmasculine friend who was once her "girlfriend," etc.

If you have really close guy friends, you might to talking with them openly about this if you can.  Not all guys (or all people) will run from a situation just because it's the path of least resistance.

Best of luck!

the guys I left live in the  world of forever high school never land of drinking and talking about the pick up days

Had a bit of a similar experience, but a lot less so because am not full time out. I am still a different person, not really a guy-guy at all anymore. I think the conversational moments become rarer. It's more like share this video game or other-game activity and be on your way. It's a bit weird, and progressive.

Seeing the other end of the tunnel as some of you ladies describe it seems sort of relieving (hey, it's OK if it happens, I'll be fine) but sort of scary, like some childhood guy friends are still childhood friends but there's some strange, funny, intangible distance now. I find that kind of unsettling. And as it's been pointed before, there's no phobia or something, it's just that things don't fit as well as before, somehow.

We caught girl cooties and got turned into women, so former male friends keep their distance in case they catch it too 

Ok, so I'm not being serious, but I do think the notion that their guy friend died and the woman who arose from their ashes is a stranger they don't know is a valid one.

My best friend from high school won't even talk to me. He knew the old me. we did Aikido together, hung out all the time, rode bikes around town together and went through college taking the same classes together. But, to him, David is dead. he doesnt know Keaira. even though it's the same person who would be over at his house every weekend, that would take him and our other friends home because I was the only one sober enough, he cant wrap his head around the fact that his best friend is a woman now.

It kind of hurts. I agree that it's a weird feeling having people talk about the old you like you're dead. But, I knew this was what would happen. Nothing worth having is ever easy. And I've come to the realization that I'm better off alone.

I'd suggest giving them time to readjust, they may come back even stronger friends but in a different context.

You go on ahead & love Your life, darling....I wish I had your situation....it would be easier..... [emoji6]


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I lost most guy friends because even if they were supportive, its still uncomfortable for the average guy to hang around with our type. And then there will be those that won't because someone might talk about it. all sort of reasons, really, but not surprising at all.

Can't lose what I never had. I stopped hanging with the guys when I got out of school, they were really my older brothers friends anyway.