Hi. I've devised new pronouns, trying to make it easier to talk about people without indicating gender
I had in mind the sound of it, and was looking for something that sounds in between what we're used to. And I'm satisfied with what I've come up with, because if you say it right, it does sound like in between. If you want to even refine it more (in how you say it), there's the added bonus of that regular folk won't be able to tell if you've said the male or female pronoun, when really you said something in between.


his/her = 'ers
him/her = 'erm
he/she = 'se


Here's an example phrase, sound it out and you'll see it sounds fine:

Look at 'erm, strutting 'ers androgynous booty; it's 'ers choice if 'se wants.


We don't absolutely need the apostrophy, but I like it there because it delineates it.

I pronounce the er in 'erm almost like the er in her, but leaning towards the sound 'i' like in 'im. Not much emphasis on the 'm' sound.
It's the same for 'ers (just leaning towards the 'i' like in 'is). Not much emphasis on the 's' sound.

(edit:) And se has apparently been used before in a few places, and I'm not sure how they pronounced it, but I figured it could be pronounced like see, but with less emphasis/prolonging on the 'ee' sound. (or sie). But I've also thought of pronouncing this one like in between see and say (but without the y ending) - ending with like the é in french.

-

I haven't seen these anywhere yet, and it just makes sense to me.
Let me know what you think. And if you like it, then feel free to use it. I've already started sampling how it sounds in regular talk, and I like it, so I'm going to use it.
If it catches on, then all the better. Though if you have your own suggestions, then share that too.

Thanks for reading 

I'm can tell you put a lot of thought and effort into and I think it's great your trying to find away that somehow gets rid of some of issues of the binary pronouns we use in society today. However, I couldn't see myself using them and the last one is way to close to being the Spanish form of yes so it would cause a lot of confusion. Thank you for sharing. Hugs
Mariah

Quote from: Mariah2014 on May 08, 2015, 09:46:00 AM
I'm can tell you put a lot of thought and effort into and I think it's great your trying to find away that somehow gets rid of some of issues of the binary pronouns we use in society today. However, I couldn't see myself using them and the last one is way to close to being the Spanish form of yes so it would cause a lot of confusion. Thank you for sharing. Hugs
Mariah

Thanks. Yesterday made me see I needed to find something to use, as I haven't been satisfied with what's available yet, especially because I'm interacting with more transgendered people now.

I'll think about the spanish thing, but I so far I don't see it causing any confusion, because of context. Also, there's plenty of other short words we use that are used differently in other languages, so I doubt it'd be a problem, comparing it.

If I say, 'se is looking out the window. I don't see anyone confusing it for yes is looking out the window. Yes or no would be expected mostly only if someone asks a question, but the question will have some context of who we're talking about.

Good point. Certainly when used a certain way the confusion could be avoided. I hadn't thought of that. Thanks.
Mariah

Sweet.

I just took it a step further just to make sure with myself..
If you ask 'who's looking out the window?' 'se might not be good, but the same with he or she. he/she would only specify if we're asking between male and female, which we're not trying to do here. Really, we'd just use the person's name.

+1 for working towards change!

Hugs, Devlyn

Channeling the character in my avatar (Oscar the Grouch, if you didn't already know):

Nice idea, but the chances of it going anywhere are about zero.

There have been a lot of proposed gender-neutral pronouns.  Wikipedia has a whole table of proposed English-language gender-neutral pronouns.

The problem is getting anyone to use them.  English is fairly promiscuous about adopting new or stolen nouns, verbs, adjectives, and adverbs, but is extremely resistant to any changes in its system of pronouns, prepositions, conjunctions, and articles.  We're still working on singular "they", and it's been around for centuries.

IM-not-so-HO, our efforts would be better spent on getting one of the existing gender-neutral pronoun sets more widely used.  Even better would be if they would be routinely used instead of the gender-specific ones (i.e., not just for people who object to being referred to by gendered pronouns or whose gender is unknown.)

Quote from: Devlyn Marie on May 08, 2015, 09:59:51 AM
+1 for working towards change!

Hugs, Devlyn

Yay for change. especially good change.

Quote from: Asche on May 08, 2015, 10:42:53 AM

The problem is getting anyone to use them.  English is fairly promiscuous about adopting new or stolen nouns, verbs, adjectives, and adverbs, but is extremely resistant to any changes in its system of pronouns, prepositions, conjunctions, and articles.  We're still working on singular "they", and it's been around for centuries.

IM-not-so-HO, our efforts would be better spent on getting one of the existing gender-neutral pronoun sets more widely used.  Even better would be if they would be routinely used instead of the gender-specific ones (i.e., not just for people who object to being referred to by gendered pronouns or whose gender is unknown.)

Well, if you find a set that you want to use, or you think is good for the public, then bring it up, this is the perfect place to talk about it. The reason I made some new ones is because nothing I saw from the existing sets seemed good to me. They either sound too different, or complicated ( like always saying him/herself)-[In this case I guess it'd just be 'ermself.]. 'They' doesn't work well for singular very well because it's already used to refer to many people.

I think people need something not too foreign, and these ones, phonetically, sound a lot like what we're already used to. (it's a good bridge for people to easily make the change)
So, anyway, it can continue to be a personal preference (of which set to use), though in my opinion something new would have more chance of picking up steam, which would just be the bonus, really.

So I looked some more at the other pronouns out there, and the best ones seem to be the ze, hir, and 'e sets. (imo)
The only thing is that even though I like 'e (and 'er), it sounds too much like he and her, especially when you're talking casually. hir sounds too much like here or her, so again it's too familiar. And then ze... is kind of an odd sound.. but it's the best that stood out to me, anyway.

Here's a looong list of all the pronouns that've been talked about before:


ps- I edited what I said about 'se in my top post. Because I found out se has actually been mentioned before.



Mod Edit - Links require prior permission

Se is an established neutral pronoun in...Ireland, I think? So that's interesting.

But I don't really see the need for new pronouns outside of "they." Neopronouns create clutter, imo.

QuoteNeopronouns create clutter, imo.

Yes, and also confusion. And what's up with the apostrophes?

Quote from: Tysilio on May 15, 2015, 10:31:09 PM
Yes, and also confusion. And what's up with the apostrophes?

The apostrophies aren't necessary, but it kind of replaces the 'h' that could've been there if that's something. it's definitely not necessary with se.

Lots of people don't like 'they' for singular, it's not really appropriate. Hence the need for new pronouns.
I'm still trying to find better ones that already exist. But so far I'm not sold on any.

I've started sometimes pronouncing ers and erm differently. I don't say it like urs and urm anymore, it's more towards airs and airm. I think it gives it its own flavour now.

Also,
After considering the feedback I've received (not just on this forum), which was around wanting more than just a new set, wanting something that already exists (& familiar) and giving it more power, I really really think that the following (existing) set is the best there is:

[ey, em, eir, eirs, emself]

it's essentially exactly like [they, them, their, theirs, themselves], but no 'th', and it's singular.
So with this, you don't have to say (in example) 'What do they want?', you can actually say 'does', and make it all singular (what does ey want).

I'm considering perhaps using it, at least when writing, because the one I created works well when talking, but seems people want to see something familiar, and I want to consider others too, so I think this would be the set to really promote, in my opinion, especially that people have already started using the non-singular pronouns. Why not make the singular version the go-to?

What do you think?

I think the real change should have happened when women's rights became more prominent. Women have more numbers than non-binary. They could have swung gender neutral pronouns to the forefront of culture. Women did some good to gender neutrality, though more of reinforced the binary language using 'he/she' and such. Too bad they didn't jump on board and join the gender neutral pronouns that were emerging at that time. I think women would have to join in for any international English language changes.

Well, any change is never 'too late'. At some point it becomes important enough to push through with it. the feminist movement is still ongoing.. That's actually not a bad idea, if we could get them onboard with stuff like this. It's never too late for a revolution, or upping the game of one.

With Bruce and Myley giving more attention to the different sides of TG in the mainstream, it might be getting close to a time when it's appropriate.