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Gym experience - the good, bad and ugly.

Started by Ms Grace, May 06, 2015, 10:21:29 PM

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iKate


Quote from: Marly on May 10, 2015, 10:00:24 PM
I'd bet that, if it became public (or known perhaps better) that there are many female clients who work out there who would also take their business elsewhere. Such a thing could be hurtful to the business.

I agree but it's a price we pay to live in society without discrimination. If that mindset was applied when we were dealing with segregation and were told that we had to be "sensitive" to the "needs" of people who were uncomfortable among people of color we probably would never have ended it.

We all need to learn to get along and respect each other. That includes cisgender and transgender people learning to coexist.
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warlockmaker

I used to sit on a major sports club Committee around 10 yeras plus ago. I remember the first TG that changed her gender at the club and it was a major issue. We had never had this issue before and our city is pretty advanced in laws to protect TGs including the right to marriage, but its a very conservative club and the ladies are not liberals. The women Committe were up in arms about the prospect of this person using their changing room - even tho she had a vagina. Fortunately, she agreed to used a special changing room, I objected saying that she had every right to use the female changing rooms. Today she uses the female changing rooms but I still hear the grumpy older women complaining. Wait till I come out, i will execise my full legal rights.....
When we first start our journey the perception and moral values all dramatically change in wonderment. As we evolve further it all becomes normal again but the journey has changed us forever.

SRS January 21st,  2558 (Buddhist calander), 2015
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April_TO

Amen sister. It's sad that transphobia exist in our own community who would rather protect a cis genders experience than our own. What a folly!

Quote from: warlockmaker on May 10, 2015, 10:09:43 PM
I used to sit on a major sports club Committee around 10 yeras plus ago. I remember the first TG that changed her gender at the club and it was a major issue. We had never had this issue before and our city is pretty advanced in laws to protect TGs including the right to marriage, but its a very conservative club and the ladies are not liberals. The women Committe were up in arms about the prospect of this person using their changing room - even tho she had a vagina. Fortunately, she agreed to used a special changing room, I objected saying that she had every right to use the female changing rooms. Today she uses the female changing rooms but I still hear the grumpy older women complaining. Wait till I come out, i will execise my full legal rights.....
Nothing ventured nothing gained
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Zoetrope

I am a Libertarian Conservative. Despised by the left, treated with suspicion by the right.
---

I think that a private company should be allowed to enforce these kinds of rules, about who they will accept as clients.

Someone mentioned setting up a 'trans only' gym. As funny as that is, what we would be asking for is no different. A policy that permits one group of clientele, and excludes another.
---

Old-me went to a Catholic university. They forbid any kind of LGBT student association, or any academic mention of all matters non-heteronormative.

Could I go back to that university? Probably not. Should I be able to? Probably not, either.

Would I even want to go back? Not particularly!
---

If I find the values and regulations of one instituion do not work with me, no matter - I will simply go somewhere else.

I am not going to take it personally.
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Ms Grace

This is a tricky and highly emotive area - from what I can tell the organisation in question has the local state laws on their side and there's not much I can do about that. As Sarah notes, they have the "right" to state who they permit to be a member - that's a legal right, even if it is not morally right.

The way I see it, as a female only gym, their principle mission is to offer an environment for their members that is not only safe but also feels safe and unthreatening. Presumably they draw a line on what can be perceived by members as unsafe and threatening based on the law.  A member can't say they find a disabled person unsafe or threatening, that would be illegal. A member can't say they find someone of a different race and/or religion as unsafe or threatening, that would be illegal. At this gym, in my home state, a member can say they find a female person with a penis to be unsafe or threatening, and the club has the legal protection to enforce that - presumably by asking "suspect" individuals to prove the status of their genitals.

And I am totally 100% for that gym providing an environment that is, and also feels, safe and unthreatening. What's at issue here is that, as a trans woman I should not be perceived as unsafe or a threat to that environment. And neither should any trans woman, regardless of whether they are pre/non/post op - there are rules for members to follow and one would expect that, cis or trans, they would be expelled from the gym for any transgression. It's not that the gym can't make the gym safe for all women, it's that many cis women feel uncomfortable with trans women. Any hateful prejudices aside, most of that discomfort boils down to not knowing or understanding the trans condition; the vast majority of cis people don't even know that we (usually) take hormones, don't understand that this isn't a "lifestyle" choice, don't believe that it isn't some sexual kink, etc. When you're up against that degree of ignorance it's no wonder organisations come up with stupid rules like "prove you have a vagina". Is it for the organisation's piece of mind, or their clientele's or both?

The crux therefore is how far is the organisation prepared to go to prove that it is an organisation for all women - be they cis or trans or intersex or whatever? If a member was to complain that they were uncomfortable about a disabled person or a person of different ethnicity/religion they would be told "too bad, get over yourself, they have a right to use these facilities and we support them doing so - if you don't like it you can leave". So why not do the same for trans women? It would need to be done in conjunction with clear unambiguous statements in their contracts, staff training, advertising material, gym newsletters and info sessions. Work with trans members so they can demonstrate there is no threat and no need to feel unsafe. Ensure any breach of that safety, from any member cis or trans, results in expulsion. As Squircle noted above, her partner also admitted to feeling intimidated by certain cis women.

Anyway, that's what I'm working towards taking to the gym. They are a national franchise so I don't know about my chances but I have to start somewhere...
Grace
----------------------------------------------
Transition 1.0 (Julie): HRT 1989-91
Self-denial: 1991-2013
Transition 2.0 (Grace): HRT June 24 2013
Full-time: March 24, 2014 :D
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Evelyn K

Grace sorry to read about your experience.

This is the passing privilege crap I'm talking about if you folks remember the recent intimate spaces thread.

"I would say that if you are being read, accruing any suspicion, then you'll have a hard time making it in places where women who self-select by CIS passing privilege, can meet and feel secure and openly intimate with each other.

For a transwoman it's a unyielding test of her stealthyness."


Since I'm not in the top 15% of passing (those rare transwomen who achieved unquestioned stealth), I'm planning on just renewing my co-ed gym membership for the warm season months and just stick with carrying a bottle of water and a towel. Locker room issues solved. I know if something hurts, that's the universes way of telling me I've reached my personal limits. So I'll accept it, present androgynously for this situation. Yeah breast binder, hair tied up, tennis shirt, addidas mens pants .. etc.

Why start a war? It is what it is.

Oh well. But I'm good enough for me, so meh. ;D
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April_TO

Segregation has never been the answer and all of us know that - especially us women that lives  in North America, Australia and South Africa. Integration has always been the goal so going back to that kind of ideology is I think in my opinion a backwards way of thinking. No one has the right to isolate someone based on their sex, race, colour, religion, gender identity and expression.

I will no longer post any response to this as I can feel some resistance to the idea of integration, fighting for what's right.  If you think businesses in your country has the right to discriminate you fine. I will never stand for that.


Quote from: iKate on May 10, 2015, 10:08:32 PM
I agree but it's a price we pay to live in society without discrimination. If that mindset was applied when we were dealing with segregation and were told that we had to be "sensitive" to the "needs" of people who were uncomfortable among people of color we probably would never have ended it.

We all need to learn to get along and respect each other. That includes cisgender and transgender people learning to coexist.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Nothing ventured nothing gained
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Marly

Quote from: SarahBoo on May 11, 2015, 12:06:52 AM
I am a Libertarian Conservative. Despised by the left, treated with suspicion by the right.
---


Hello from a politically like-minded soul  :)
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mac1

Quote from: Ms Grace on May 10, 2015, 02:31:42 PM
...............
At the heart of the matter is lack of awareness, understanding and compassion of and for the trans experience. The second they saw me as trans they essentially defined me as "really a man" and we all know that's exactly how a lot of people think. They then told me they needed proof I was "really a woman", a deeply humiliating and upsetting experience.

So yeah, what to do? I have a few ideas but they will have to wait for another post.
Ms Grace did they want to see your genitals. Can you see them asking an FTM man to prove it by showing his genitals?
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Ms Grace

Quote from: carmenkate on May 11, 2015, 10:32:00 AM
I will no longer post any response to this as I can feel some resistance to the idea of integration, fighting for what's right.  If you think businesses in your country has the right to discriminate you fine. I will never stand for that.

I agree with you April, but while they don't have the moral right to deny me membership based on my genitals rather than my gender identity they do have a legal "right" given to them by my state. I have always railed against gender segregation, it is one of my most significant triggers. Regardless, I'm talking about trying to enact change for an inclusive environment when there are legal frameworks permitting the organisation to maintain the discriminatory status quo - an inclusive environment where all women, cis and trans, feel safe.
Grace
----------------------------------------------
Transition 1.0 (Julie): HRT 1989-91
Self-denial: 1991-2013
Transition 2.0 (Grace): HRT June 24 2013
Full-time: March 24, 2014 :D
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iKate


Quote from: mac1 on May 11, 2015, 03:43:59 PM
Ms Grace did they want to see your genitals. Can you see them asking an FTM man to prove it by showing his genitals?

They asked for proof of surgery which is the same thing.

Basically it's a roundabout way of asking if you have a vagina.
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mac1

A woman only Gym is really a sexually biased position when women have challenged the existence of men only Gyms and gained the right to join them.
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Ms Grace

Ugh. Really? I'm not even going there and I don't want this thread to either.
Grace
----------------------------------------------
Transition 1.0 (Julie): HRT 1989-91
Self-denial: 1991-2013
Transition 2.0 (Grace): HRT June 24 2013
Full-time: March 24, 2014 :D
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Zoetrope

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Teela Renee

I don't blame you, I run into this a few times a semester at the gym on campus, but our campus has gender identity protections but it doesn't stop the cis-gender bitches from trying to rain on your parade.   Sad thing is, 90% of the time, the girls that look like Barbie wannabe's get upset when I out lift them by a landslide and I have to constantly remind them im a Combat Vet. >_> oddly I find the men on campus more agreeable to hang out with.  They see me as the girl who likes to smoke, drink, spit, and play in the mud with them lol.
RedNeck girls have all the fun 8)
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Sophie Lou

Ms. Grace, I am so sorry you were discriminated against. I've never had that experience since transitioning, so I don't know how I would react.
I don't think I'd want to go back there, though, if I had to shrink to a discriminatory policy.
Id rather be honest and go from there.
Again, I'm not in your shoes, though. Big hugs!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
xx -Sophie
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Ms Grace

Oh yeah I have no intention on returning, at least not under that policy. Even if I was post op I wouldn't just out of principle. I'm more trying to think about getting them to change the policy...
Grace
----------------------------------------------
Transition 1.0 (Julie): HRT 1989-91
Self-denial: 1991-2013
Transition 2.0 (Grace): HRT June 24 2013
Full-time: March 24, 2014 :D
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Cindy

 :police:

Please people, this is Grace's thread and I know that she is inclusive of all people no matter her experience at the gym.

I do not want to see any more posts bashing ciswomen (or cismen for that matter) nor any member or group in society.

Such comments devalue Grace's personal philosophy as they do the trans*community.

Thank You

Cindy
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Urban Christina

Leave an online review and share your experience. Others need to be aware of who they are.
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judithlynn

I am currently faced with pretty much the same problem. I currently do water aerobics twice a week at my swimming pool, but as I have been losing weight and with my B+ Cup breasts, permanently erect nipples, large areolae and rounded buttocks now starting to be pretty obvious, I am really now at the stage where:-
1. I have gone from looking like an overweight male in mens bathing trunks. Mind you from a different perspective since I have been on the HRT , my perception of naked male bodies has changed!
to
2. A Half naked female'
Its already getting quite embarrassing for me in the mens locker room, such that I now shower  and dry off then wrapping my big bath towel under my armpits and around me covering up my breasts and then head to a quiet corner in the locker room to change, but as each week goes on with my breasts, nipples and areolae too evident, I have been decided that I really  have  to use  a family changing room.

But I really need now to wear a one piece bathing suit and a bathing cap rather tham my male trunks , (I have a nice halter neck one piece with high thigh cut), so I am contemplating trying out a different pool where I can change before hand then do a water  aerobics session, then changing back in the family changing room. The question though is how much do I disclose beforehand to the swimming pool/gym management
Judith
:-*
Hugs



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