I have heard of only one procedure that offers natural lubrication, that is Dr Schaff in Germany. That is appealing to me, not just for relationship purposes, but you know (getting wet when aroused, primarily).

Do any other procedures offer this, or do you have to pretty much always use lube?

I am sorry for beeing off-topic but today before dilating I choosed to become aroused prior. So I saved the lube and dilated without lube. I get to wet when I am horny
I am so thankful to Dr. Schaff.

No surgeon can *guarantee* it without the colon procedure, I believe, but it's the luck of the draw - some women do manage it and some don't.

Personally, I actually do get wet enough for penetration on my own (though more lube is never a bad idea for a woman, cis or trans!) and squirt a bit at orgasm. The way this happens is via the urethra, the same as for "pre-ejaculate," but the fluid is very similar to that of the cis women I've been with : clear, odorless, and very slippery. Even cis women do get some of their lubrication from the urethra, too, so while my vaginal walls do not exude lubrication as theirs do, the mechanism itself is still part of the standard package (as it were). I've found that while I get a little wet at arousal, I get progressively more so with penetration specifically.

In addition, any surgeon who uses urethral mucosa to line the labia or vagina will be likelier to create at least a small amount of natural lubrication, as that's lubricating tissue originally and continues to be so in its new location(s). However, how much and how responsive it is to arousal - versus being constant or arbitrary - is another thing that depends on the woman's body.

Quote from: Lara1969 on May 07, 2015, 02:43:39 PM
I am sorry for beeing off-topic but today before dilating I choosed to become aroused prior. So I saved the lube and dilated without lube. I get to wet when I am horny
I am so thankful to Dr. Schaff.

Hehe. See this is the stuff that puts him more or less on my list for SRS surgeons.

Two things, cowpers glands and urethral graft/flap. It depends on a technique, processing of urethral tissue for graft, and other technique dependent things. Some surgeons don't even use urethral mucosa. Some use it for inner labia minora, some use it for inside vaginal lining (as an addition to penile skin), some use it for neoprepuce, etc...

My surgeon`s technique relocated urethral-mucosae to form part of a 'pseudo-cervix' and {at times} it seems as if it worked rather too well. 

I am sorry to go off topic, but I have seen documentary about your doctor. She seems to have retired now. As your surgery was long time ago, how happy are you with aesthetics, depth, sensations... She is the first doctor I have heard of doing SRS and I have always wondered what were the results like back than.

Quote from: possessed on May 07, 2015, 11:05:51 PM
I am sorry to go off topic, but I have seen documentary about your doctor. She seems to have retired now. As your surgery was long time ago, how happy are you with aesthetics, depth, sensations... She is the first doctor I have heard of doing SRS and I have always wondered what were the results like back than.

P.M sent.

Forgive me, but I've never been able to understand a mechanism by which lubrication would be present for us, short of the sigmoid-colon procedure (which seems to over-lubricate). Our vaginas are designed to aesthetically resemble CIS female vaginas, and they do that remarkably well. However, since they are unavoidably rearranged CIS-male parts, certain undeniably physiological differences cannot be ignored:

1) Urethral tissue: in my "other life" shall we say politely, pre-SRS, I got no lubrication from my urethra. What came out was prostate fluid/pre-ejaculate. The prostate shrinks after HRT. Cowper's glands remain as well, but they contribute only a small percentage to pre-ejaculate material in CIS males, and even this comes out of the urethra. They are not modified or re-placed elsewhere to offer lubrication after SRS.  If I recall right, there wasn't even any ejaculate left after 6 months of HRT. Any lubrication post SRS is emerging from the urethra, but not from the lining of the urethra...why would it? Does the urethra lubricate in CIS females? No. That's the job of the vaginal mucosa. Does it lubricate in CIS males? Again, no. That's the job of the Cowper's glands.

2) Scrotal tissue: a number of studies have been done that show neither the penile inversion nor the scrotal full or half thickness grafts turn into mucosal tissue of the kind that lines CIS vaginal canals. They are not stem cells; they cannot shift their function any more than any other cell. Indeed, they don't even "know" they've been shifted internally. I was on HRT for two or three years before SRS... I never noticed my scrotal or penile skin lubricating itself while aroused due to estrogen 'changing' anything. Why should it start just because it's been sewn into a canal internally?

3) Clitoral sensitivity: physiologically, although they have the same function, the clitoris under microscope shows a nerve density far higher than the glans of the penis. Meaning, a small chunk of glans used to make a clitoris might look like a clitoris, but cannot possibly have the same sensitivity. From experience, I know this to be true.

This doesn't discount the positive aspects of mentally feeling correct and getting just as much or even more pleasure from sex or orgasm post SRS. But I do question surgeons that promise all sorts of stuff that don't seem possible to deliver. Dr Suporn did mine, and he was quite clear that lubrication was not something to expect. He was right.

Feeling excited and nerves   just been told got the go ahead  and nhs funding for reasiment  surgery  just waiting for a date now to have it so happy can't water but nerves at same time

I'm still pre-op and being on hormones for more than 10 yeas and the lubrication that comes out from my uretra is a lot, so much to the point that when I'm aroused it runs my legs down. I hope it remains after op.

Quote from: GendrKweer on May 12, 2015, 01:13:27 AM
Forgive me, but I've never been able to understand a mechanism by which lubrication would be present for us, short of the sigmoid-colon procedure (which seems to over-lubricate). Our vaginas are designed to aesthetically resemble CIS female vaginas, and they do that remarkably well. However, since they are unavoidably rearranged CIS-male parts, certain undeniably physiological differences cannot be ignored:

1) Urethral tissue: in my "other life" shall we say politely, pre-SRS, I got no lubrication from my urethra. What came out was prostate fluid/pre-ejaculate. The prostate shrinks after HRT. Cowper's glands remain as well, but they contribute only a small percentage to pre-ejaculate material in CIS males, and even this comes out of the urethra. They are not modified or re-placed elsewhere to offer lubrication after SRS.  If I recall right, there wasn't even any ejaculate left after 6 months of HRT. Any lubrication post SRS is emerging from the urethra, but not from the lining of the urethra...why would it? Does the urethra lubricate in CIS females? No. That's the job of the vaginal mucosa. Does it lubricate in CIS males? Again, no. That's the job of the Cowper's glands.

2) Scrotal tissue: a number of studies have been done that show neither the penile inversion nor the scrotal full or half thickness grafts turn into mucosal tissue of the kind that lines CIS vaginal canals. They are not stem cells; they cannot shift their function any more than any other cell. Indeed, they don't even "know" they've been shifted internally. I was on HRT for two or three years before SRS... I never noticed my scrotal or penile skin lubricating itself while aroused due to estrogen 'changing' anything. Why should it start just because it's been sewn into a canal internally?

Sometimes it does not help to get too deep into strict rational thinking and instead it might help just contemplating reports from others.

Quote from: Colleen Ireland on February 28, 2013, 07:16:59 PM
My impression is that the wetness comes from the urethra, via the same process that creates the "pre-cum" lubrication in men. I'm pretty sure this comes from the prostate, which of course is still present. I only experience it when sexually aroused, which means I use lube when I dilate (nothing much sexy about dilation).

There are threads of others who report lubrication, from other surgeons, and imo of course mucosal tissue helps a lot.

Imo part of this has to do with expectations. If you are expecting it you are more likely to experience it.
Imo its like some cis girls say with gspot orgasm... there is a point where you just have to let go... not keeping in fluids mentally...

some of the tissue might react like vaginal tissue under hormone influence...

not promising anything but imo the belief itself might help.

Another thing might be eating a cup of organic yoghurt for a few days ( I don't like taking dairies for too long)... this is what cis girls are recommended for having a healthy flora...

it might take time...
and, well, not all cis girls are very wet either...

hugs

I don't mean to take anything away from others' experiences, I'm just perplexed. I'm silly like that, seriously, if I don't understand something, it really bugs me until I do. There haven't been any studies confirming any changing tissue type under HRT, unfortunately. Believe me, I've looked at everything out there. Anecdotally, I repeat that I was on HRT for years before SRS... none of my genital skin changed to mucosal tissue. Relocating that same tissue and expecting it to then suddenly change into a self-lubricating mucosal tissue that lubricates on "demand" no less doesn't make much sense. It does, however, raise the expectations of other girls undergoing this procedure. I'm not saying it isn't a wonderful, amazing procedure even without this; I am certainly extremely happy with what has been achieved. It just is good to go in with lots of questions and open eyes.

GendrKweer : I think I mentioned, my lubrication is definitely dripping out of the urethra, and presumably has the same origins as pre-ejaculate - but these days it's very similar in consistency, appearance, and smell to female lubrication. It makes sense to me that if HRT can change things like body scent and semen consistency, it could also alter the lubrication at least somewhat.  This would also explain why it happens "on demand," as pre-ejaculate typically corresponds to arousal as well.

The urethra is mucosal tissue that does in fact contribute at least minimally to lubrication in cis women. In addition, cis women who ejaculate also typically report that this comes from the urethra but is not urine.

I have no explanation whatsoever for why I squirt when I orgasm now even though I'd stopped ejaculating a few months into HRT. I was shocked and somewhat dismayed the first time it happened, even. Similarly, while I'm well aware that my clit cannot have more nerve endings than my penis did (and in fact almost certainly has less), it *feels* that way and it's too sensitive to touch directly. Maybe some of this is happening in the brain instead of the crotch; personally, I don't particularly care, since I'm happy with the outcome.

Quote from: Jenna Marie on May 13, 2015, 09:10:50 AMI'm happy with the outcome.

This is all that matters!

Quote from: GendrKweer on May 13, 2015, 04:09:30 AM
There haven't been any studies ...

There are some.
gendercare dot com/library/italiano_paper1.html

"From months to sometimes years after skin grafting, the graft loses all of its skin properties and adapts to its environment, becoming a mucosa... (Sherfey, 1973)."

"they also showed that some artificial vaginas are capable of lubricating as well and as rapidly as any normally constituted vaginal barrel .. (Masters & Johnson, 1966)"

"Those post-operative male-to-female transsexuals who amuse themselves with the peculiar statement that they still have a penis, but that it's just turned inside-out should note that not only do they not have a penis, but they don't even have skin of the penis any more ....
It also responds to hormones in an identical way as does a normal vagina..."

Lubrication when aroused definitly works. All Schaff girls are lubricated when aroused. Using tne Urethra of the penis for the vagina a good idea regarding the outcome. No smell, no risk and natural lubrication are the results.

I know it works great. I do not know why. But when using Progesterone pills vaginally the remaining oarts are always transported out by the natural humidity. It works like the vagina of a CIS girl. There is always some wetness.

I am not a fan of using colon for the vagina. It seems to be a very risky and smelly method. When I am healthy I smell like every other healthy girl for a make nose down below.