So in one of my previous posts a few months ago, I mentioned how I went through an extreme bout of GD to the point that I had to start taking action or I don't think I could have continued to go on with my life.  Now...I've been getting hair removal and I've been on Spiro for about 3 weeks.  I'll also be starting on estrogen in a month...sooo.....

I don't feel any dysphoria at all.  It's like as though in the last few days, the GD has totally dissipated to the point where I'm starting to feel masculine at times.  This is so confusing because I've had GD on and off all my life but it never has gotten that bad.  And now...it's like I feel totally normal... I can't imagine that spiro would cause me to feel more masculine.  I am so confused!

I mean I'm not even all that excited about starting estrogen like I was in the last few months.  It's like my mindset has reverted back to boy mode.  I just don't want to end up not going through with hrt, putting it off, then realizing next year that I just wasted a whole year.  I don't know, has anyone else going through something like this?

Quote from: Autumnleaf on May 15, 2015, 06:43:52 PM
So in one of my previous posts a few months ago, I mentioned how I went through an extreme bout of GD to the point that I had to start taking action or I don't think I could have continued to go on with my life.  Now...I've been getting hair removal and I've been on Spiro for about 3 weeks.  I'll also be starting on estrogen in a month...sooo.....

I don't feel any dysphoria at all.  It's like as though in the last few days, the GD has totally dissipated to the point where I'm starting to feel masculine at times.  This is so confusing because I've had GD on and off all my life but it never has gotten that bad.  And now...it's like I feel totally normal... I can't imagine that spiro would cause me to feel more masculine.  I am so confused!

I mean I'm not even all that excited about starting estrogen like I was in the last few months.  It's like my mindset has reverted back to boy mode.  I just don't want to end up not going through with hrt, putting it off, then realizing next year that I just wasted a whole year.  I don't know, has anyone else going through something like this?

Are you having doubts on transitioning?
Is this something you really want?

It is normal to feel masculine at times because well GD does that to you
To not be bothered by it doesnt always mean that HRT is not right for you
It could mean that you are comfortable and you personally know you are a woman and that these feelings do not matter.

Its hard to say judging by what you posted.

Hi Autumn,

You are on Spiro and that can create a great sense of peace, at least for a while, as your body adjusts. I have very low T and am on IM E and my dysphoria is in  waves now, especially when triggered.

HRT, especially when just starting requires patience.

Quote from: Alysinspace on May 15, 2015, 06:47:22 PM
Are you having doubts on transitioning?
Is this something you really want?

It is normal to feel masculine at times because well GD does that to you
To not be bothered by it doesnt always mean that HRT is not right for you
It could mean that you are comfortable and you personally know you are a woman and that these feelings do not matter.

Its hard to say judging by what you posted.

Sigh, I didn't have doubts until just a few days ago and now I have no idea.  Funny thing is, I still plan on going through E and all but I'm kinda worried.  I felt very feminine and natural and then all of a sudden, I stopped feeling that way a few days ago.  Now the doubts are coming in full speed.

Quote from: Cynthia Michelle on May 15, 2015, 06:49:03 PM
Hi Autumn,

You are on Spiro and that can create a great sense of peace, at least for a while, as your body adjusts. I have very low T and am on IM E and my dysphoria is in  waves now, especially when triggered.

HRT, especially when just starting requires patience.

Thank you Cynthia,

This does make me feel better knowing that spiro can have that effect.  I just read about how some transwomen stop taking hormones because they feel as if they are "cured" and as soon as they stop, the dysphoria comes right back.  I wish I could be "cured" but at the same time, I don't want to stop the process, wait until the dysphoria gets unbearable again, the start from scratch all over again.

Quote from: Autumnleaf on May 15, 2015, 06:59:58 PM
Thank you Cynthia,

This does make me feel better knowing that spiro can have that effect.  I just read about how some transwomen stop taking hormones because they feel as if they are "cured" and as soon as they stop, the dysphoria comes right back.  I wish I could be "cured" but at the same time, I don't want to stop the process, wait until the dysphoria gets unbearable again, the start from scratch all over again.

You need to seek a health care professional to determine weather HRT is right for you
Spiro sure can bring a sense of peace to your mind when you take it but this effect is placebo
If I gave you a pill that looked exactly like spiro but really it was just filler you would still feel this sense of peace
The dosage your on really in all reality is probably not doing all that much for you
They started you with this to see if you'd continue on or push forward its kinda like a failsafe dose.

You are now having doubts on transition once the medicine hits you
You need to seek proper help in my opinion
I will not tell you to continue transitioning because its something I enjoyed and its something that has worked for me
because it may not work for you.

I hope you feel better
Love,
Alyssa

If you'd like we can continue discussing these feelings but I will in no way shape or form make a life changing decision for you

Quote from: Alysinspace on May 15, 2015, 07:05:13 PM
You need to seek a health care professional to determine weather HRT is right for you
Spiro sure can bring a sense of peace to your mind when you take it but this effect is placebo
If I gave you a pill that looked exactly like spiro but really it was just filler you would still feel this sense of peace
The dosage your on really in all reality is probably not doing all that much for you
They started you with this to see if you'd continue on or push forward its kinda like a failsafe dose.

You are now having doubts on transition once the medicine hits you
You need to seek proper help in my opinion
I will not tell you to continue transitioning because its something I enjoyed and its something that has worked for me
because it may not work for you.

I hope you feel better
Love,
Alyssa

If you'd like we can continue discussing these feelings but I will in no way shape or form make a life changing decision for you

Hi Alyssa,

I've actually spoken to my GD therapist about this and she felt that it was more of a phase as I'm going through the transition process.  Since I've developed a strong masculine front, it's very ingrained into my psyche and letting that go is going to take time.  I'll be seeing her again in a few days because she wanted to see how I felt after a week. 

As for transitioning, I'm going through with it but I have so many doubts.  I'm hoping this is a phase too.  I just wanted to know if anyone else went through this period or if it's just me. 

P.S: Thank you so much for offering to chat more.  I think I just need to get this out and I dunno, hope someone else has or had a similar experience.

Autumnleaf, it's normal to have doubts, and to feel all kinds of crazy stuff as you begin transition. I had a number of "OMG what am I doing" moments.

If you're concerned that transition may not be for you, remember that you can take things as slowly as you like. Have you thought about starting with low-dose HRT?

You can plan on plenty of WTF moments. 

As for the GD, one step at a time.  You need only go as far as where you find relief.  That can come from meds/HRT, expressive outlets, knocking down T - all kinds of things. 

What I found was that the things GD produced lessened (depression, social anxiety, reactivity, aggression, anger, etc.).  My issues with my body, however, came into sharp focus.  And there was a lull like that you are describing in between.  I'm almost 3 years into HRT, and still finding new kinds of ups and downs.  GD can and does resolve along the way for some.  For others, including me, so far anyway, it's more like whack-a-mole. 

A lot of people do very nicely on a low-dose HRT regimen.  If it works, terrific! 

Quote from: Autumnleaf on May 16, 2015, 10:06:11 PM
I've actually spoken to my GD therapist about this and she felt that it was more of a phase as I'm going through the transition process.  Since I've developed a strong masculine front, it's very ingrained into my psyche and letting that go is going to take time.  I'll be seeing her again in a few days because she wanted to see how I felt after a week. 

I've been on a full dose of spiro and a low dose of estradiol for about six months now.  The dysphoria and depression lifted almost immediately, similar to what you're describing.  Placebo or not, my head cleared up and I felt normal.  I've been able to take some time to make a clear-headed decision.  And I've definitely gone back and forth about it the last few months.

I realized that my new-found peace of mind is definitely estrogen-dependent, and that's telling.  Could I live this way the rest of my life?  Probably.  Do I want to?  Not even a little bit.  But it was really important to me to decide to transition because I want to, rather than being driven to do it to escape GD.

On the other hand, without the driving need to escape the dysphoria, I don't have the same motivation I had before.  But I keep reminding myself that this is who I am...and I'm doing it to be me and to be happy.  There's a big difference between getting by with a "therapeutic dose" of HRT and moving on with my life and being happy.


I wish you the best of luck.  And please do keep us updated. 

Quote from: Eveline on May 16, 2015, 10:57:32 PM
Autumnleaf, it's normal to have doubts, and to feel all kinds of crazy stuff as you begin transition. I had a number of "OMG what am I doing" moments.

I've had several of those moments too, especially when waking up - then a few hours later, as soon as I'm out and about, I realize I feel so much better leaving my apartment as a woman. My own fears were more about social ramifications than transition in itself; and now that I know the social ramifications weren't as bad as I thought, these moments are also a lot more rare.

To OP: I believe the best way to find out what you need is to try estrogen, and then after a month or two decide whether it makes your life better or worse. It's really the only way to know for sure.

Autumn is already on low dose HRT
As I stated the spiro isnt really doing much for her
Talking to her gender therapist is the best thing she can do
yes your masculine feelings are for sure engrained in you youve been a guy all your life and now thats changing
to be quite honest in my transition I have never once said to myself what am I doing?  to me it was either transition and be successful at it and be who I really am or die.  I chose the latter obviously because Im still here.

But not once did I stop and say what am I doing to myself.  Even when boobs came when emotions got heightened when my downstairs stopped functioning I welcomed all these changes with open arms.  Seriously not once did I question it and the fact that you are doubting yourself and questioning it present the question of weather or not transitioning is a good idea for you.

I would reccomend maybe stopping the spiro until you see your gender therapist again and talk about your feelings with stopping spiro and stopping your transition.  TBH you havent even started transitioning with just a spiro script so if your gonna put the breaks on it now would be the time.

Quote from: Alysinspace on May 17, 2015, 10:33:57 AM
I would reccomend maybe stopping the spiro until you see your gender therapist again and talk about your feelings with stopping spiro and stopping your transition. 

Now, that would not be a great idea, because stopping medications abruptly without doctor's supervision could send the whole body system into roller coaster. I have had a couple of those WTF moments and later realised that they were all caused by hormonal fluctuations (and I was acting all emotional without knowing that there was a very simple reason behind). If Autumn would eliminate spiro completely, that would cause testosterone spike and the way how Autumn's body would respond is completely unpredictable.
Besides, there might be also another explanation for those masculine feelings - OP might be somewhere on the non-binary scale, very close to female which does not exclude nor preclude from having some masculine traits. Trying to suppress them willingly and deliberately could actually cause a lot of harm both emotional and psychologically wise, so find the point of balance might be necessary as well. We are all humans, in the end, and perfections and those fitting 100% flawlessly in one of the boxes probably exist somewhere, but I have not yet met them in person.
Just my couple of cents and I hope that some of this might help.

It wouldnt if you have normal male test and just take spiro spiro alone doesnt surpress T to female levels so

Quote from: Alysinspace on May 17, 2015, 12:45:58 PM
It wouldnt if you have normal male test and just take spiro spiro alone doesnt surpress T to female levels so

Then why spiro is being widely used as anti-androgen? Also, considering that estrogen has very little (if any) antiandrogenic qualities? I spent most of HRT on spiro and it was quite effective in knocking down T levels (slowly but steadily). I am currently on androcur, and it's effectiveness is tremendous (in comparison). Also, ironically, but I never had those "wtf" moments with androcur, only with spiro.

Spiro isnt an anti androgen thats an off label use and a side effect of spiro spiro is a diaretic and heart med estrogen is used to surpress T

Quote from: Alysinspace on May 17, 2015, 01:08:21 PM
Spiro isnt an anti androgen thats an off label use and a side effect of spiro spiro is a diaretic and heart med estrogen is used to surpress T

If You say so .

I know so

I've had it many times with estrogen (I didn't use spiro back then). Take estrogen and I'd sometimes feel just normal, but if I stop everything comes back just the same as before if not worse. It took me a few cycles of that before I stopped stopping.

I never tried spiro by ifself, but I've had always had this awesome euphoria every time I started or increased my estrogen levels.

Spiro can take T down to female levels, depending on how much you take and how you respond, of course.   It is considered a relatively weak anti-androgen and it's anti-androgenic effects are considered a side effect.  It is a serious enough side effect for those taking it for non-trans purposes that unwanted feminization effects are all over the literature.

It can take a lot of Spiro to bring  levels down sufficiently on its own.  Estradiol is a very strong steroid.  It can be used alone to reduce T levels  and that was a common approach decades ago.  Current practice, however, is to balance a regimen of anti-androgens and estradiol.   Spiro is used because it works, especially in conjunction with estradiol, it's cheap, and it is pretty benign for long-term use (meaning more than a few months).

Like many,  my doctor started me on Spiro alone.  Even with a modest bump above the starting dosage, it still only took me down from about 900 to 350 ng/dl.  I also developed a hyperkalemia problem right out of the gate. Fortunately, I didn't require large doses of estradiol to bring my T levels down to the 50 range and my E levels to about 200 pg/ml.  I know plenty of others who have taken several times the Spiro dosage I take  and/or several times the estradiol dosage I take.