The transgender people reported about in the media often fit a particular narrative (always knew they were a woman/man, hated their body, wanted dolls/trucks, refused to wear gender-typical clothing, etc.). We know here, of course, that almost none of us fit all those characteristics and there is considerable variety in how we experience our gender. But how widespread are these variations? In what ways did you fit the standard narrative.

i actually can't answer this because o played with both sets of toys though i hung out with females and never once had a male friend

I played with toys of both genders (although I preferred "boy" toys) and had friends of both genders, the biggy for me was depression starting at around the age of 15.

Yeah, a lot of the narrative does not fit me. There definitely is a lot more to it that what the "standard narrative" suggests. We're all different.

For me, it was a lot more insidious and didn't show itself in the obvious things people think of. I still did some things like play with gendered toys and dress up, but it was never a big deal. The over-arching signs to me were feelings of detachment and lack of gender identity (as in not really feeling or identifying with anyone around me), and that just kept growing after puberty.

They were all things that were easily hidden from the outside world, but something really didn't feel right deep down.

It'll be interesting to see more responses.

- Sam

It's an interesting way to frame the concept. 

I think the variations are widespread, but I wonder how and why they might cluster.  I suspect that for all but the little kids who insist on their gender openly from their earliest years that any clustering is based on reaction patterns and conformity.  Enforced conformity might be a larger theme for a 20-something transitioner, for example, where it was forced through adolescence, whereas reaction-based issues may predominate among older transitioners.  What I DON'T believe is that intensity is necessarily any different.  Rather, that a lot of things both individual and social converge to twist individuals' gendered lives into knots.

There are all kinds of psychological reaction patterns - repression, suppression, dissonance, etc.  And the issues they foster are all over the place too.  Depression, adjustment problems, hyper-aggression (and conversely, aversion), personality disorders, OCD, and ...

My story is mostly about suppression and to a lesser extent, dissonance.  Things that fit the standard narrative for me are episodic crossdressing back to pre-school years, a preference for female friends, very strong identification with females, a disastrous psychological and behavorial train-wreck in my teenage years, and the strong feeling I was transsexual starting in my teen years. 

Non-standard elements:  While I was female identified when VERY young (3 or so, perhaps ... hard to say, though I remember this), it was essentially buried shortly thereafter.  I had a preference for girl's play up to my teen years, but wouldn't go there ... except in private, which I did when my sisters were out of the house (i.e., with their stuff).  And GOD did I want to dress in my elementary school years, but rarely did.  Dissonance kicked in early.  I really wanted to be a nun for the longest time when I was a kid for example, and it never occurred to me that I could not.  Very weird, but suppression kicked in more viciously later in life.  As an episodic crossdresser, I purged literally every time I dressed.  Couldn't stop it.  Zoned out doing it.  Beat myself up after then purged.  And then put it completely and totally out of my mind.  Over the years I became progressively more depressed and angry, isolated, and destructive.  I had a meltdown a few years ago when the real issue finally came out and that was that. 

Short version - I'm hypersensitive.  In childhood that triggered the early *desire* to conform, then a hyper-reaction in adolescence.  Full-on suppression through my adulthood created progressively greater tension until I broke. 

That doesn't exactly fit the "knew since birth" narrative.  I did - and didn't.  I knew sometimes.  Sometimes definitely, sometimes I suspected.  Occasionally I even remembered.  Rather than the standard narrative's conformity hiding reality bubbling right below the surface, mine is closer to reality being imprisoned in the very center of my being where it lay nascent.  I compartmentalized my life, and in the process had no real life as myself.  This is also why I typically describe myself as having a female identity rather than a woman's.  I feel again in a very particular respect, and quite strongly, exactly how I felt in childhood.  And I'm dismayed at the loss and damage in between.

[edit] I cross-posted with the reply above.  On lack of identity - yes!  With my real identity so thorougly buried that it only came out episodically, the rest of the time I was ADAMANT that I am NOT a man. 

I align to all except the Deep depression and suicidal, but I did get some anxiety attacks, but managed them through.

The only slight variation, I was in a family of 3 brothers, so playing with toys associated with my Identified Gender was a few and far between event, only when I played with my neighbour (Saturdays mainly) and my cousin, once in a while... that really sucked... but its what it was. However playing with them I always played the nurse or damsel in distress roles... funny that... hmmm

Its fascinating the way we put up barriers and a stance to protect our inner-selves, I had to conform, never changed my internal thought processes, but over time created a quiet but bulletproof shell... I guess at some point we all hit that "I really can't do it anymore"

L Katy 

I probably follow along with it for the most part except for the wanting to play with toys and activities of my identified gender. Outside of a lot of dressup as a kid, I stuck mostly to science and construction type toys like the erector set.

I was oblivious to gender as a child. I somehow didn't even realise that there was an anatomical difference between people until being taught about puberty so I thought whether you were called a "girl" or a "boy" was just arbitrarily based on presentation, I guess. I was friends with both girls and boys, and I played with whatever toys I felt like. Although I now identify as mostly male, I really liked wearing dresses and stuff as a kid. So, had I been cis, I would still have been gender non-conforming. But, at around 8 years old the gender divide between the other kids began intensifying and that was when I started to become really uncomfortable, along with the physical changes that I really didn't want. I think I really realised that I wasn't a girl (or at least didn't want to be) at around age ten, but it didn't sink in or become real to me until I learned what ->-bleeped-<- was ten years later. So I don't think I really followed a standard narrative at all.

At 8 to 12, I played aussie rules, which is now not uncommon for girls these days.
I was short, thin and loved horses, I wanted to be a jockey, again, not uncommon for girls these days.
I never wanted a doll, but i did play with them every chance i got with my female cousins.

these days, I'm as straight up female as you could get,

It's an interesting question to think about, and complicated. Certainly I'm dissatisfied with the prevailing historical view of binary genders in Western culture, especially with its patriarchal bias that privileges what are considered to be male traits and denigrates traits that are thought to be feminine. It caused me a lot of anguish, discomfort and shame when I was growing up. As a result I tried very hard to suppress the part of me that wanted to do more feminine things -- like sometimes play with dolls or use my sister's fashion plates set. Also understand that I certainly loved lots of boy-oriented activities, like baseball and football, going fishing and more.

One thing I can say which I didn't like but was considered feminine, but I often did quite easily, was crying. It was horrible because if there's one thing that can get you picked on for as a young boy, it's crying. I don't know what it is, but I cry easily when I feel hurt, angry, ashamed, etc. Oh I hated that. And it didn't help any that I was about the smallest boy in my class and rather intelligent. So, as a defense mechanism, I tried to suppress as much as possible what seemed to be feminine and tried to be as much of a boy as I could be.

There was very little welcoming space around me for my feminine aspect and there wasn't much left inside of me either. But she never went away. She may have buried deeply into the darker corners of the mind, but on the other hand, she manifested in other ways -- struggles with serious depression, one suicide attempt which will maybe not directly related to the suppression of the feminine me, struggles that were certainly exacerbated by it, my love for the beautiful ways women can dress themselves (skirts, scarfs, shoes, shawls and dresses). That love was so strong that a few times in the days before online shopping I went and bought a few items over the years. I also purged them during some of the worst depressions. And the dreams. I would always have dreams where I was the feminine me, although when I was severely depressed, those dreams were often anguished and bitter or nightmares.

On the other hand, while all of the above was difficult, I do think it helped me become aware easier and quicker than many cisgender men how much valid criticism feminists make of culture and gender roles. If the two roles were held to be equal, there would be far less difficulty and social stigma for those who don't fit neatly into the traditional cisgender framework. But obviously here in the US we're still in a culture that favors men. Not as much as was done so 100 years ago or even 10 years ago, but it still does. That framework appears to be crumbling and I hope it does so.

I've veered away some from the original question, but that's what the question made me think about with this idea of a standard narrative. Yes, I'm quite sure there are many for whom that the realization their body doesn't match their gender is quick and certain. But for some of us others, it's not so certain or quick. I don't know what would have happened to me had I grown up in a culture where both genders were regarded as equal and a culture where a child could play however they want to play with fear of it being the wrong kind of play for the societal expectations developed around the physical forms. I'm quite sure that if I had grown up in a more enlightened culture, I would have more greatly developed my feminine aspect and personality. And maybe having done so would have resulted in me choosing to start hormone therapy and eventual surgical treatment to be the woman side of me. Or maybe not. Maybe I would have been satisfied to exist in an in-between state, one where maybe some days when I felt strongly feminine, I would dress in skirts and blouses, and other days just dress like a man.

There's a lot think about with the question that was asked. How much is inherent and how much is culture? How much do those 2 influence the other? The answers aren't certain to me.

I only committed to really trying hard to live as my assigned gender when I had a baby. I knew it wasn't right for me to be a woman, but I enjoyed pregnancy and breastfeeding and I feel like that makes me some kind of alien.

I always knew my gender was different from my sex assigned at birth
I always knew I wanted to be a girl and for a time I believed, "Tomorrow I'll be a girl."  Tomorrow never came.
As a child, I preferred toys/activities of my identified gender
As a child I played with whatever toys there were but mostly I liked toys that allowed me to build things
I dressed as my identified gender as often as I could
I dressed as a girl as often as I could as long as the chances of getting caught were almost zero
I was disgusted by the parts of my body specific to the sex I was assigned at birth
I never really thought about it when I was a child but at that same time I hoped and prayed I would grow breasts when I came into puberty, or sooner would have been good too 
I always felt very uncomfortable around members of my assigned sex at birth
As I tried to be accepted as one of the girls but was rejected, I always felt very uncomfortable around girls. Guys were easier to gain acceptance with.
I want/wanted surgery to bring my body in line with my identified gender
The only thing I knew about "sex change" was what was spun around the Christine Jorgensen case.  I just prayed to God to do the surgery.
I suffered depression, anxiety, or suicidal thoughts because of my gender
I was always okay with the fact I was different, as long as it was kept a secret.  I knew it wasn't me that had the problem but I also knew if anyone knew I would the one to suffer.
I feel/felt like I am/was trapped in the wrong body
No doubt, my body is in conflict with my brain, even after GRS, FFS and BA.

Quote from: suzifrommd on May 18, 2015, 08:06:32 PM
The transgender people reported about in the media often fit a particular narrative (always knew they were a woman/man, hated their body, wanted dolls/trucks, refused to wear gender-typical clothing, etc.). We know here, of course, that almost none of us fit all those characteristics and there is considerable variety in how we experience our gender. But how widespread are these variations? In what ways did you fit the standard narrative.

I never like "Hated" my body (aka genitalia). There are LOTS of other things wrong with it beyond that. The dangly bits were the least of my problems. Even a lot of fun at times.

"Resigned to my fate" pretty much describes my narrative, even today. A semi invalid wife, fun job, mortgage. I try to survive. In an ideal world I'd transition in a flash. Not so sure about GCS.

A lot of how I see myself has changed over the decades. Today I am at a place where these two great aspects of myself are certainly not in conflict, but peacefully coexist. I know I am the odd duck in my support group. Yet am also admired by some for being able to find peace (mostly)

I didn't know since my earliest memories. In fact, I remember exactly when it started... puberty. Right around the middle of 7th grade, a few months after I turned 13.

I never played with stereotypically-feminine toys as a kid. I actually hated them because they were "girly." My female friends were all of the more tomboyish variety. (Side note: I hated super-masculine toys too, so I've always been more in the middle in terms of interests)

I didn't cross-dress. I tried once, but it did nothing but make me feel depressed because of how awful it looked on me. My only real clothing-related battle was that I really wanted the ability to wear shorter shorts like I used to in grade school without being made fun of.

I never had problems with boys socially. Even though my absolute singular closest friend in childhood was a girl, a vast majority of my friends were boys. And I really didn't have a problem with that. I had a secret club called the Wildcats with four boys, made a series of comic books with two boys, and my best high school friend is a guy.

The rest is pretty typical, but I'm definitely a later-onset trans person who wasn't at all super-effeminate as a child, I always sorta straddled a line between typical guyish behavior and more gender-nonconforming ones.

Also, even though I was a bit depressed, not to the degree that is "typical" where it dominated my life. Mostly it was just a long lingering annoyance that I was mostly able to ignore and be happy in spite of it.

Looks like there are only a few partial deviants here.

Quote from: marsh monster on May 18, 2015, 09:17:12 PM
I probably follow along with it for the most part except for the wanting to play with toys and activities of my identified gender. Outside of a lot of dressup as a kid, I stuck mostly to science and construction type toys like the erector set.

ditto

Too bad the poll can only aggregate the replies---we really want to know which options are being ticked by each person.

Personally, the only one I can tick is "want/wanted surgery." The first one might apply, but until recently I did not think about gender in that sort of way. I knew I would be happier and more comfortable in a female body, and certainly prayed (despite my deeply held atheism) that I would wake up one day as a girl. But the idea that one's gender identity and body could be separated was not something that I understood until recently.

I'm not even slightly inclined to tick any of the others, though.

Edit: well, maybe the last one (wrong body), but not really---I felt ok in the body I have, it just had the wrong junk.

I am far from meeting the ISO standard trans* narrative.  I went along with the flow mostly all of my life pretending to be my assigned at birth gender while knowing there was something really different with my gender.  Parts of my personality are really repressed/supressed.  I didn't get a doll until after I was over 30.  I have cross dressed for years, privately.  It is only in the last two years I have done any in public.  The one I fit best with is depression.

Each of us is unique!


Erin

I don't fit the advertised/textbook trans-narrative either. I identify with a lot of the variations already mentioned by others. Something else I'll add is that I don't have particularly strong genital dysphoria. My dysphoria has centered mostly on secondary sex characteristics.  I wanted to grow up to have breasts. I didn't like body hair, and I was ashamed of sprouting facial hair. Etc, etc.

Growing up is weird enough while having a strong concept of biological sex and psychosocial gender. Without it, ->-bleeped-<- was damn confusing. Lol It took me until high school to realize the subtle variations biological differences between the sexes. That's also when I realized that I wish I had been born female. Since I was "male", I resigned myself to my fate(as someone else posted) since I didn't think transition was something I coukd do. Mostly because I had no clue what it entailed... I didn't even know if I was a candidate for it because I didn't know the criteria. I had the dysphoria, but without having others to talk to or established trans-role models locally or in the media, I had no idea if my experience was unique, typical, transsexualism, cross dressing, a sexual thing, or what. Add on top of that the guilt and shame that the WASP culture around here taught me, my narrative was disadvantaged from the start. Lol

So, after complaining about all that, I'll end on a positive note! I love myself, I'm loving my body more and more as it becomes aligned with the biological sex I feel authentically represents my psyche, I'm loving life, and I'm loving the people in it much more than I ever did before social a D biological transition.

I sure didn't know anything growing up other then I was a shy and sensitive kid that better hide that or get beat up. Wasn't till puberty that I had any slight thought that I was gender different and then again it was only slight. Fast forward to my mid teens/early 20s I fantasized about being a girl but with current information that I knew it just seemed like It was just a dream that could never be.

As for dressing up hell yes but as far as my body is gross no its what I was born with and on that note do I feel born in the wrong body no it just happens to need some redecorating.

As for toys and activities I didn't play with dolls but I would rather play board/card games then throw a ball around. Which comes to feeling uncomfortable around assigned sex in a way I was comfortable yet 9 times out of 10 I didn't relate to them very well so sorta uncomfortable.

All I can figure at this point for me is I was brought up to be ashamed to be a sissy or get beat up for it so I dare not show this. Took me till my teens to try clothes and not so long ago realized the possibility of yes that is me yet depressed anxiety whatever of wait me is a girl.

Don't fit the narrative very well at all yet in parts I do but then again aren't we all human and unique not set to certain criteria but perhaps a generalization there of.

Ok off topic who can use a map and or when driving use landmarks over a map? I thought it was normal to use landmarks or get lost not exactly male female thing eh guess learn some things and in ways I am sure we are all a mix more in the middle then CIS. Just have to find the right balance:) Honestly I have looked at my traits/thoughts/feelings and how they add up to as typical male/female/neither and whether right or wrong way to decide I keep coming up with the same darn answer I was born male but my mind is more female but not totally. Am I trapped no not exactly right body just needs some alterations. If that makes me a women then so be it I would be proud to be a woman.

Sorry for the slightly off topic ramble to a very good do I fit in narrative thingy!:)