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Came out to my parents

Started by cindy16, May 23, 2015, 03:59:46 PM

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cindy16

I visited my parents a few weeks ago when I took a short break from work. A few days before that, I went through some psychiatric tests recommended by my therapist (see https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,186020.msg1683728.html#msg1683728).

I had been thinking that I'd come out to my parents only when I have everything figured out and am just about to start HRT, but when I got the MMPI report which said the elevated M-F score indicated GID, it just seemed like an external validation that I could rely on to explain to them, so I decided I'll come out to them on this trip itself.

I initially waited to catch both of them together, but then figured I didn't want to waste time, so I just sat down with my mother and told her. My father was not around then, but when he came home, I told him too. We had a couple more conversations about this before I left two days later.

Before even my first talk with my mother, both of them had already noticed I had this weird remnant of a beard shadow left after the first laser session, but they couldn't understand where it came from. Initially I just made up excuses and said there was nothing unusual. My mother also noticed that I was wearing women's leggings when I reached home the first day, even though I simply claimed they were men's. And of course, my hair which is now longer than it has ever been. But she didn't quite put all these things together until I told her.

I told her that I had been facing confusion and questions about gender for some time now... for a few years off and on but very seriously and constantly for the last few months. I tried searching for info online and after ruling out a lot of other possibilities, I had come to this conclusion about GID. I explained how it was different from sexuality and especially for someone who was 'straight' in their assigned gender, it could be even harder and take longer to figure out, so it was not as if I hid anything from them or from my wife. In fact, I had hid it from myself all along. I also told how I had gone through a really tough time a few months ago when I first figured it out, and that I couldn't eat or sleep properly for a few days then, and that depression, anxiety and suicide attempts were common among others who went through it. In my case, suicide wasn't something I had immediately considered, but I had this general devil-may-care attitude about life and my health all along which I was now beginning to address, that all these years even as I tried being an ideal son to them, an ideal husband to my wife, and had done well enough in my career etc, I still couldn't care much about my own life.
Finally, as I began to understand and address it, I had started seeing a therapist and he had recommended some tests, one of which had indicated GID.

She heard me out, came over and sat next to me when she saw I was distressed, and started by saying that I should never ever talk again about suicide, and that she would always support me no matter what. However, she found it hard to understand how I could be going through this, as I had never been too feminine as a child. She was also very concerned about my wife, my marriage, career etc and said I would have to consider all of that. We then decided to wait until my father came home to talk more.

********* trigger warning **************
With my father, it was completely different. I showed him the psychiatric report but he almost dismissed it, saying not just that I had never been really feminine, but also that I had no physical abnormalities, so what I said didn't mean anything. Basically he was conflating being transgender with being intersex. I told him that was not true, and told him everything that I had told my mother, but he didn't seem to be convinced. He simply said that if there is some 'problem' and someone is not fully male or female, then it could be 'corrected', but otherwise, there was no way for someone completely male to become completely female and vice versa.
For some reason, that day's and the previous day's newspaper had articles on transgender celebrities etc, so I showed them those and told them that the women whose pictures were shown in those articles had all been in the same situation. No intersex conditions but just that they were transgender.

I had thought that he might make some snide remark about those celebrities, or compare with some Indian celebrity that we tended to look down upon, but he then came up with the most bizarre thing I could have expected. He turned to my mother and said, 'you remember that police officer who started dressing up as Radha and dancing etc?' By this time, I was totally put off so didn't bother talking much, and we left it there.

Later, I searched online for this Radha story (she was the mythological lover of the Hindu god Krishna) and came across this http://www.newindianexpress.com/states/odisha/article31599.ece. Next day, I asked my mother and she confirmed this was what he was talking about - they had seen this story in the news a few years ago but I seem to have missed it.
I was really angry at this point. Now let me make it clear, I do not want to judge that police officer on being transgender or going through something else, but this was someone not just claiming to be of a particular gender, but also claiming to be a reincarnation of a goddess. Typical stuff that hundreds of godmen and godwomen do in India all the time. And then he dismissed his wife's claims of alimony saying he didn't own anything!

I had thought that my father, a man of science and against all superstitions etc as I had always known him, would be able to understand, but all he could come up with was this? No he didn't believe in those claims of someone being Radha, he probably dismissed it and laughed at it, but to conflate my situation with that was really insulting. It would have been OK if he had connected it to some effeminate celebrities who get laughed at, or even those on the streets who have to beg or get into sex work to get by, but no, he had to connect it to someone who frankly seems like a fraud.

Anyway, this time my father wasn't home again so I explained to my mother in more detail about GID and also showed her some videos on it. One of them was the story of an Indian trans girl who had completed her transition with her family's support and who 'passed' very well. It had been broadcast a few months ago and she said she had seen it, but now saw it again in a new light as she connected my situation to it.
Later that day, my father brought it up again and this time he spoke about chromosomal abnormalities, but this time I explained to him clearly what I knew and that a lot of these things had been discovered in the last few decades and that his knowledge was outdated.

Btw, while I was with them, I went through some old books that they still have that I used to read as a child in the 1990s. They were my window to the world then in many ways, but this time, I searched through them for trans related stuff and all I could find was a brief article by John Money. Not surprising since these books were written in the 'dark ages' for trans related stuff. Even on LGB rights, there was nothing, no Harvey Milk, nor anything else except a brief article on homosexuality as a psychiatric condition. And this was all that I had, what I relied on and grew up with. No wonder that I had no words to express what I felt, and that I just hid it deep inside. And when I figured I liked girls, I thought I was 'normal', even though that attraction was more complicated than what I knew cis-hetero guys had.

So I left it there, at an awkward sort of disagreement with my father and a lot of concern from my mother. When I was leaving, she hugged me and seemed like she would cry but I held her and told her everything will be OK.

We have been talking on the phone daily since then, like we always have, but the topic has not come up again with my father. My mother, though, has brought it up a few times and asked if I was OK, and I've been saying yes, even at times when I was feeling down.

I do not depend on my parents, nor do they on me in any way, so my only connection to them is emotional, not material. And it's a strong connection, as they have been good parents, and I've been a good kid, for all these years. My wife wasn't around on this trip, but for my mother, it is all about how my wife and I will work it out. If we can, then she'll stand by us no matter what. My father on the other hand, even if he can get out of that pseudo-scientific denial, will still worry about what our relatives, family friends etc might say, so I don't know what to expect from him.

This reminds me of something I asked my mother when I was showing her those videos. I said that my situation was different because I was married and was attracted to girls, so even if I fully transitioned like the girl in that video, I couldn't just pretend to live a 'normal' life after that in our homophobic society. Even wishing that I had been born a cis girl wasn't enough, as with everything else being the same, I would have been lesbian. What would she have done then, if her daughter had told her she was attracted to girls, that she didn't want to marry, that probably she would have tried to emigrate away to somewhere she could live her life the way she wanted?
My mother calmly said, 'I would have probably accepted it but your father wouldn't'.
That summed it up for me.
  •  

Ms Grace

Thanks for sharing, Cindy. Telling parents is always difficult, fathers  are almost always the last ones to come onboard, if they ever do. Being rational or a man of science makes no difference, sometimes it makes it worse.

Our transition is a journey for them too, one where they have to unravel and rebuild a lot of complex feelings about who they thought us to be, and about themselves, acceptance and social constructs of gender. We've battled with our gender identity most of our lives but  it is often the first they've heard of it when we come out. You can probably expect denial, anger and bargaining from them as you go through this process.

I chose to tell my folks five days before I went full time that way there was no opportunity for them to dismiss my intentions as "another flight of fantasy" or to give them false hope that they could talk me out of it.

All the best! Hugs. :)
Grace
----------------------------------------------
Transition 1.0 (Julie): HRT 1989-91
Self-denial: 1991-2013
Transition 2.0 (Grace): HRT June 24 2013
Full-time: March 24, 2014 :D
  •  

suzifrommd

I wonder if a question like "How can you be so sure I'm not wired to be a female?" might help.
Or some questions that start "Are you aware that..."
"Are you aware that many transgender women were not feminine as kids?"
"Are you aware how serious gender dysphoria can be?"

Don't know if it would help, but I find those can sometimes break through resistance and get someone to see that they don't know everything.
Have you read my short story The Eve of Triumph?
  •  

Rachel

Your parents experienced a shock and may be in denial. Hopefully, they will come around in time. Keep the lines of communication open and stay in contact. Ultimately it is up to them to accept or welcome you as their daughter.
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  •  

Ms Grace

Quote from: suzifrommd on May 23, 2015, 04:39:26 PM
I wonder if a question like "How can you be so sure I'm not wired to be a female?" might help.

Unfortunately so many people think penis=man/vagina=woman... they don't care about or acknowledge brain wiring as a real or plausible thing.
Grace
----------------------------------------------
Transition 1.0 (Julie): HRT 1989-91
Self-denial: 1991-2013
Transition 2.0 (Grace): HRT June 24 2013
Full-time: March 24, 2014 :D
  •  

iKate

#5
Thank you for sharing, Cindy.

I am not of Indian nationality but I am of Indian ethnicity and I consider myself to be part of the diaspora.

Several of your experiences coming out to your parents match mine. Some are pretty different. In particular the way your mother reacted is similar to how mine reacted but she is more or less fully accepting of me as a woman, to the point of wanting to accompany me to surgeries and buy clothes for me and treats me like her daughter.

My dad just went silent. Completely and totally silent. He told my SIL that he's struggling with it and that was the last I heard.

By the way, my parents split since I was 10. Then along came painful, ugly puberty and that made things much worse.

Honestly I cannot understand why Indians of all people have such a hard time with gender variance. The forms of god that hindus worship are portrayed as having gender variance and in reality all are just a form of one God. But that is a different conversation.

Like your father mine is well educated and should have had some empathy for me. He studied social science and teaches sociology. How can he not understand what I'm going through? Worse yet, he has zero problems with my lesbian cousin and her pretty obvious cohabiting partner (that she really doesn't tell anyone she's in a relationship with but it is extremely obvious).

Another thing that I am extremely happy about is that there are normal, everyday Indian trans women like Gazal Dhaliwal, as well as you and some others on here like Sneha (ssneha23). Usually when you think of transgender in India you think of Hijra, and while they are beautiful people they are not what many would consider to be mainstream society.

Anyway, hang in there with your parents, the hard part is done now I think all that it takes is patience and perseverence. I am hoping one day my dad will talk to me again. I just hope that the next time I see him won't be in a funeral home, and since I'm female I can't even do the rites for him.
  •  

CarlyMcx

It is hard to believe that if your father is a man of science, he could be completely ignorant of the process of ontogeny.  Every human embryo starts out female.  The chromosome determines only the genitalia, which form during the first trimester of gestation.  It is the hormone balance during gestation that determines the gender of the brain, and therefore the true gender of the being.    The brain does not select for gender until the last ten weeks of pregnancy, and the brain selects for gender based on what hormones it receives through the bloodstream -- which is connected to the mother's bloodstream through the placenta.

XX chromosome + too much testosterone during pregnancy = FTM, XY chromosome + too much estrogen during pregnancy = MTF.

Or at least, that is the simple version of current scientific thought on the matter.

  •  

iKate

Quote from: CarlyMcx on May 23, 2015, 10:41:59 PM
It is hard to believe that if your father is a man of science, he could be completely ignorant of the process of ontogeny.  Every human embryo starts out female.  The chromosome determines only the genitalia, which form during the first trimester of gestation.  It is the hormone balance during gestation that determines the gender of the brain, and therefore the true gender of the being.    The brain does not select for gender until the last ten weeks of pregnancy, and the brain selects for gender based on what hormones it receives through the bloodstream -- which is connected to the mother's bloodstream through the placenta.

XX chromosome + too much testosterone during pregnancy = FTM, XY chromosome + too much estrogen during pregnancy = MTF.

Or at least, that is the simple version of current scientific thought on the matter.

I agree except that I think it has to do with timing of the hormone release to the fetus rather than the type of hormone.

In any case lord alone knows why anyone would want to have this discord in their lives. I don't. I just want my body and brain to match. I knew that I wanted to be a woman since I pretty much gained conscious thought. So why do people think it is some kind of lifestyle choice? It isn't.
  •  

rachel89

Hugs , Cindy. I haven't come out yet, so I don't feel free to to provide advice, but I still feel for you. 


  •  

Cindy

While society is slowly changing, many parents are still struggling with not being able to accept that their child is not the perfect little human they gave birth too.

I remember coming out to my parents so many years ago, when I was very young and very obviously in a female gender orientation. Such a thing was not possible!

Yes, April Ashley was all over the newspapers and the concept of 'sex change' was discussed in the sensational tabloids, but as a news item to titillate and feed the public's desire for the bizarre but not a a concept of feeling for the poor person struggling in the Hell of being trans*.

My parents were lovely caring, charitable people, who worshipped their God and attended church (RC) and followed the teachings of love and acceptance.

But such things couldn't happen in their family.

Yes rape and abuse happened and they condemned it and helped when they could, but when I was raped, dressed in female clothing, they could not deal with that.

It couldn't happen in their family.

When my younger sister suicided following acute alcoholism triggered from sexual abuse by a stranger breaking into her house they cried and fell into despair.

It couldn't happen in their family.

When their much loved son, the heir to the family name, left home at 17 to be the woman she was. It broke them.

It couldn't happen in their family.

When they received pictures from Australia of their daughter, finally happy and well. They were never acknowledged.

It couldn't happen in their family.

We have to remember that no logic is involved in this, it is emotion. Our parents loved the child they raised. It is so hard for them to acknowledge that they were 'wrong'; their little boy is really a girl. Or their much loved daughter is really a boy.

I have the privilege to now work with parents of trans*kids. Every family I have met adores their child - but they are so worried. Will their new daughter live a happy life? Will 'he' be bullied? Can 'he' have a career and a normal life?

The sheer horror they face when I tell them that 'he' has a very good chance of never having a career or a life as 'their son' because they will probably suicide shakes them to the core.

But Cindy, your parents and my parents never had someone tell them that. Certainly not a happy successful and content trans*woman.

Will your Dad come around? Will your Mum totally accept her daughter? I don't know. I hope they do.

I hope so, not just for you, but for themselves. My parents died having lost their son and their new daughter. A daughter who couldn't even be bothered (or had the courage) to even go to their funerals.

Everyone lost. No one gained.

I hope that doesn't happen to anyone else.

Particularly not to another woman called Cindy.

My Love

Cindy



  •  

katrinaw

Hi Cindy(16), thanks for sharing this, something that is so close and personal to you... It certainly has brought joy and tears to me...

My father has long passed, my mother has Alzheimer's so for me its void... However reading your story It has made me relate to my own family here, I think what has been said is why some of us, being so caring, find so difficult to actually say who we really are. Its why we have lived for so many years hiding and trying to conform. Most us that were kids through the fifties, sixties and teens or young adults through the seventies and maybe into the eighties are so good at pretending to be who we are not... Because of our parents views on such things or expectations... Whether we really knew that or not at the time!

Aah yes Cindy you reminded me of the April Ashley stories, I had forgotten all about her, I also recall my father, after I was married with my first child showing me a photo portfolio of a women who was a man before i cant recall her name though, of course then there was no transgender or GID terminology, as stated so many times the dark ages. Interestingly it was those pictures that played on my mind for many, many years, re-kindled a difference again in my cross dressing...

Often the father/son relationship is tense, even if the son was sporty as well as the father, nothing is really not quite good enough, whereas father daughter relationships are strong and bonding... Whereas mother/son relationships are of love and caring, compared to the strive to be the best... I have not failed as a father, but i was never really interested in sports, nor was my son, until skiing and snowboarding, oh and jet skis, which wore off. Where my daughters turn to me for most things on the whole...

I think that this why it is so hard for some fathers, on the whole, to accept that their offspring are not like them, or maybe is it that envy may be there, strength, will power, determination, the sort of things a father wants to see, but not in the way he would prefer to see it.

Whilst society is changing as a whole, it is not uniform, yes sure fathers sort of nod and accept its changing, until it directly affects them.

I see in todays parents a strong tendency to push their kids into sports or competitive forums to ensure they are who they wanted to be... Men or Women, nothing between! I hear the words that ring in my ears every weekend I watch my grandkids playing sports "man up", don't be a woose, don't dance like a boy etc... And the fathers are definitely the worst at accepting and being open...

L Katy  :-*
Long term MTF in transition... HRT since ~ 2003...
Journey recommenced Sept 2015  :eusa_clap:... planning FT 2016  :eusa_pray:

Randomly changing 'Katy PIC's'

Live life, embrace life and love life xxx
  •  

katrinaw

Cindy, you are indeed a wonderful person, putting everyone ahead of yourself, and supporting many with strength and wisdom.

Your words about your parents are really touching, this sums up the sadness of who we are and how folks block out what they don't want to hear with often devastating or irreparable damage. Sometimes the chasm's may never be bridged, although we all hope they can, often by one party or another feeling its a capitulation!

Hugs Cindy...
Long term MTF in transition... HRT since ~ 2003...
Journey recommenced Sept 2015  :eusa_clap:... planning FT 2016  :eusa_pray:

Randomly changing 'Katy PIC's'

Live life, embrace life and love life xxx
  •  

cindy16

Thank you so much all of you for your replies.
Reading them has been really touching and brought more bittersweet reminders of my own experiences.

Cindy, I can't thank you enough for your words. iKate and Katy, the same for both of you too.
Each of you mentioned death in one way or the other, but my parents are still relatively young and healthy enough that I have no doubts that they'll live long lives (and I hope, wish, pray that they do). But the strange thing is, I could never picture myself being around till then, say even till my 50s or so while they were in their 70s or 80s.

Why is that so? Not because of any existing or expected health issues or habits, but just my general outlook. After all, living for others or living as if you are ticking off stuff from a checklist can only take you so far, even if I didn't put it in as many words to anyone, certainly not to my wife or parents or anyone I cared about.

And then more than a year ago, I came across Deirdre McCloskey's story (http://www.deirdremccloskey.com/gender/edu.php) and especially her words about being an 'obedient kid' and as Donald, spending 'years trying to please his father'. Those words resonated with me like nothing had ever done before, and then discovering more of her story and of others like Lynn Conway was my first exposure to what being transgender really meant, to trans people in well-regarded careers, and realizing that the 'typical narrative' didn't apply to everyone. And then I figured out what transition really involved, that it was more about your own mind, identity, even genetics, rather than just an extreme surgical process. Extreme surgery, not just for 'sex change' but even otherwise, brought up negative stereotypes like Michael Jackson or Pamela Anderson (no offense to their fans). And transgender, until then, meant a conflation of intersex, cross-dressing, sexuality etc in ways I didn't fully understand, and I am sure most people around me don't either, even with very visible trans communities around us here.
April Ashley, Renee Richards, Christine Jorgensen are all names I came to know about only in the last few months or so. And stuff like 'gender is in the brain, not between your legs' and that 'gender identity and sexuality are different' was something I heard from some of my LGBT friends over the last few years, but took some time to realize its meaning or how it applied to myself. Sure I knew my mind leaned towards female and I would have preferred being a woman, but not how it was actually possible. Or even that these feelings were legitimate and not something creepy or a fantasy or a fetish etc.

Carly, I've studied science too, but I never came across any of this until I set out on my own journey of searching for answers for what I was going through. And I believe even now, someone searching out of casual curiosity is more likely to land up on something written by the Blanchard, Bailey, Money, Zucker types, things which even I found more easily than this site for example. It was only after sifting through all that nonsense, not being satisfied with the answers and still searching further that I landed up here. So I can't really blame my father for not knowing what I didn't know myself. It is the refusal to listen, especially from someone actually going through it, which bugs me more.
To be fair, he did say the same thing about every embryo starting out female, and the balance of both types of hormones in both sexes etc. But according to him, it is all set in stone by birth, and the only reason to interfere with it is to resolve physical ambiguities (usually without determining how the child actually identifies). In that chain of thought, 'cross-sex hormones' only have negative effects (Alan Turing, for example?).
Suzi, brain wiring didn't seem to matter much in this discussion, though he did say something on the lines of the brain being a tricky thing where there is a fine line between 'normal' and 'abnormal' etc. Basically, he meant that I am overthinking this and if I want, I can keep my brain on the 'normal' side.

Anyway, enough of dwelling on this.
Ms Grace, Cynthia, and everyone else actually... thanks for your words on patience and waiting for their acceptance. That's what my therapist said too, that it was good that they've dealt with the initial 'bang' well enough and now it's up to them to process it.
FWIW, both of them did say that they were OK with my growing out my hair, or doing things with my face or appearance or clothing which they see other guys also doing nowadays. Although here too, my father took a somewhat dismissive approach, while my mother at least asked how I care for my hair now that I am growing it out etc. HRT and surgery is a no-no according to both of them, but it's not something immediate for me either, so that's OK.
  •  

cindy16

Quote from: iKate on May 23, 2015, 09:19:54 PM
Honestly I cannot understand why Indians of all people have such a hard time with gender variance. The forms of god that hindus worship are portrayed as having gender variance and in reality all are just a form of one God.

That's just one factor. Surely it helps in that people may not consider it an abomination or forbidden by God, but it is still something unnatural. And it doesn't prevent rape, abuse, discrimination and ostracizing.
The myths and legends all explain it through boons, curses, re-births, incarnations etc, so for the modern rational types for whom religion is just a token thing, it doesn't help them understand it better in any way.
  •  

Mariah

Cindy, Thank you for sharing. It's never easy, especially telling parents, coming out and telling those around us about what we have been struggling with and why we need to transition. I never had the opportunity to tell my father since he died when I was just barely 13 and was very sickly for years before that so as a result I didn't have the uphill battle as far as telling my parents. As others have stated they are still in shock and denial and that can take awhile to go away. I can only hope that when it's all said and done both of your parents are supportive. Your mentioning the fact a book by Dr. Money was in the materials you found that they had brought back not so found memories for me. It's because much of my care, as is the fact for many others on here, was affected by that when they made the choices they did. Anyway all I can say is don't give up on them and just keep trying. Educate them as much as you can and give them time. They have a loving and caring daughter and in time I hope they see that. Good luck and Hugs
Mariah
If you have any questions, please feel free to ask me.
[email]mariahsusans.orgstaff@yahoo.com[/email]
I am also spouse of a transgender person.
Retired News Administrator
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  •  

cindy16

Thanks Mariah.
Time is not a problem as I am waiting at least a year (for other reasons) before starting anything. I'll try to educate them but not force too much especially over phone calls. They might visit sometime so we'll continue the conversation then. Hopefully, they'll come to understand over time.

Sorry about the Money reference. I was just venting it all out and didn't realize its effect. Btw, it was not a book but just one article, maybe a few hundred words max. I don't remember reading it then, but even if I had, I would have probably continued to be in denial.
  •  

Mariah

Cindy, No worries still even at an article what he did was toxic for so many. I'm long passed the role his work played in my care, but it was just view of so many at that time. Talking is a good thing, but don't be alarmed if no talking occurs either because not everyone processes things out loud. Hopefully as things move slowly that they come to terms and are the support their doctor needs. Hugs
Mariah
Quote from: cindy16 on May 24, 2015, 12:50:26 PM
Thanks Mariah.
Time is not a problem as I am waiting at least a year (for other reasons) before starting anything. I'll try to educate them but not force too much especially over phone calls. They might visit sometime so we'll continue the conversation then. Hopefully, they'll come to understand over time.

Sorry about the Money reference. I was just venting it all out and didn't realize its effect. Btw, it was not a book but just one article, maybe a few hundred words max. I don't remember reading it then, but even if I had, I would have probably continued to be in denial.
If you have any questions, please feel free to ask me.
[email]mariahsusans.orgstaff@yahoo.com[/email]
I am also spouse of a transgender person.
Retired News Administrator
Retired (S) Global Moderator
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