Sorrow if this has been beat to death, but ate there any advantages to progesterone being used along with E & a T blocker?  There seems to be a lot of opinions but not a lot of factual long term studies.

My endo does not use it unless the patient requests it bscause there is no scientific evidence.

There is scientific evidence that progesterone promotes lobulo-alveolar structures in the breast, increases sebum (oil) production, beneficial if your skin/hair is too dry (estrogen reduces sebum) or/and nails are brittle, that progesterone has anxiolytic (reduces anxiety, if any)/sedative properties due to the effects of its metabolite allopregnanolone and can help with sleep in some, as a result. There is evidence that, in addition to estrogen, it promotes fat deposition in butt and thigh area, that it can relieve water retention due to its antimineralocorticoid effect. No evidence so far that it increases breast cancer risk in contrast to medroxyprogesterone acetate and some other progestogens. Progesterone does not trigger androgen receptor activity, does not increase androgen concentrations in the body and has no androgenic activity in contrast to some other progestogens such as medroxyprogesterone acetate or some progestins found in birth control pills.

Anecdotal experience is vast. Some like it, some don't. So far, my experience has been quite positive on it. It helps calm me, gives me more energy at times and makes me happy. I think it softens my skin and has helped with increased fat deposition giving me a more curvaceous body. I may reduce dose perhaps in near future to see how I fare with less, to really pinpoint what is due to progesterone and what is due to estrogen.

I think, if doctor is willing and understands that bio-identical progesterone is not the same thing as other progestogens, thus having different side-effects, you can try it and see how you do on it.

Also important to add is that progesterone has some anti-estrogenic activity, reducing number of estrogen receptors, increasing metabolization/de-activation of estradiol so that it may, in some, cause some reduced feminization/breast growth while in others, it may add to it and complement. The net effect depends on so many factors, it's impossible to predict in advance what will happen.

Some girls report a "glow" on it, looking years younger, having additional breast growth, improved mood while others say they look more masculine, have increased weight gain (i.e. belly), feel depressed/too tired. YMMV, I guess.

Thanks.  I did do a lot of reading and found a lot of information.  It's like everything I read stated many positive effects with the caveat "But no long term test have been confirmed."

I did discover that people's opinions are sharply divided, and much of what is published is based entirely on the person's subjective view rather than any concrete evidence.

My endo did write me the prescription, but with his opinion that ther is no concrete evidence ...  I was a little edgy the first week, but everything is very good now.  I can only describe it as a deeper or very internal feeling of calmness.  I do suffer from anxiety, but have not had an anxiety attack in a while (knock on wood).  It will be interesting if this lessens the number or severity of the attacks

My Dr used to claim it was not overly beneficial many years ago, but has since confirmed that there are some benefits, but studies and evidence is incomplete... based on what he said, I switched from periodical use to full time use... my biggest issue was more hitting livers and kidneys... but thus far no changes since I started 12 years ago...

Although I want to change real soon to implants....

Anyway it supposedly does help with boobs, also has some benefits against certain cancers, but that's always a hard one to predict as with everything, it varies by person?

I am happy, will check any changes to visible aspects in a few months time...

But you're right about divided views...

L Katy

I've read several studies about bio-identical progesterone and its effects on ciswomen, even in males...also in mice/rats and monkeys. So, there is plenty to read about ...I have at least 10-20 studies saved and there is much, much more. You just have to take the time to research and read. It's mostly been studied to observe the effects on women who are at high risk of miscarriage/pre-term labor, in women with PMS symptoms...but also its benefits have been observed at the cerebral level when damage occurs. The more you read, the more you will know and then you can pass on this information to your doctor.

KayXO,

Would you consider shareing some of the links that you have found??
Some like me who have random internet access would really benefit from your research.

Thanks a lot,
Jamie2

My endo said she wouldn't prescribe it unless my T levels weren't dropping enough. She said my T levels are fine and won't do it. She says I'm progressing very well. My breasts are still growing so I guess I can't complain too much.

I've never taken it in all my years, just deep-estradiol and I think I turned out alright. I feel like a pretty happy and balanced person just the way I am. I don't want to complicate my situation any more, just keep it right where it is.

After I resume hormones after surgery I think I'm going to ask for it. In particular I'm looking for better nipple development and better breast shape.

Quote from: Jamie2.0 on May 28, 2015, 11:14:59 AM
KayXO,

Would you consider shareing some of the links that you have found??
Some like me who have random internet access would really benefit from your research.

Thanks a lot,
Jamie2

Will PM you links.

Quote from: awilliams1701 on May 28, 2015, 11:15:09 AM
My endo said she wouldn't prescribe it unless my T levels weren't dropping enough.

She is not talking about progesterone but medroxyprogesterone acetate (oral Provera or Depot-Provera), definitely not the same thing and something I still have a hard time understanding why doctors prescribe. Progesterone's usefulness is several fold in *some* girls despite low T and good breast growth.

Quote from: awilliams1701 on May 28, 2015, 11:15:09 AM
My endo said she wouldn't prescribe it unless my T levels weren't dropping enough. She said my T levels are fine and won't do it. She says I'm progressing very well. My breasts are still growing so I guess I can't complain too much.

As said, bioidentical progesterone might help with development of the lobules and alveoli in the breasts.
Some people report that even after having been some time on hrt.
Theory has it it has some antiandrogenic effects and helps counter some side effects of estrogen .

Another hint could be breast massage, twice a day for a few minutes, imo best with a good plant based oil suitable for massage purposes.
It might help with blood flow and stimulate estro receptors.

hugs

Quote from: Laura_7 on May 29, 2015, 04:43:32 PM
stimulate estro receptors.

Very doubtful unless you can provide evidence for this.

Quote from: KayXo on May 28, 2015, 11:05:45 AM
I've read several studies about bio-identical progesterone and its effects on ciswomen, even in males...also in mice/rats and monkeys. So, there is plenty to read about ...I have at least 10-20 studies saved and there is much, much more. You just have to take the time to research and read. It's mostly been studied to observe the effects on women who are at high risk of miscarriage/pre-term labor, in women with PMS symptoms...but also its benefits have been observed at the cerebral level when damage occurs. The more you read, the more you will know and then you can pass on this information to your doctor.

Ok I like two comments in this thread, one is zumbagirl's. If all is good and you're happy keeping it simple then, just keep it that way!

I also like Kay's, like Kay, I did my research years ago, and decided to ask my endo for it (the good, bio-identical kind)... And I think I am the biggest proof of progesterone working that I know Of now. this is actually my first time commenting on any progesterone threads. So anyhow, my endo said ok as a trial thing, and only if I felt better or saw benefits would we keep it, I grew, huge nipples, which I slowly realized later on, wasnt the norm for mtf girls, I also grew up to a small C cup (realistic not wishful thinking) I eventually got a BA and now have an F cup (just to clarify, and wouldn't have managed this size hadn't it been from the development that I had) at one point , my nipples felt like ey were getting scary big so I said to my endo I probably was getting too much orogesterone and I wanted to stop it (I don't really know why I did that, I felt like i started looking matronly or something). Stopping progesterone suddenly and my BF and his playful hands caused my brain and body to think I had just had a baby and I started lactating, like not just a little, but the very same amount a nursing mother can produce, it still is the case and I blame my BF for not leaving me alone but I don't want to go on about that, they need to be left alone for the signal to be sent that they need to stop lactating, now considering getting back on progesterone to stop the lactating and for the other benefits.

What I mean is, if all that happened to me on it, then there's got to be someing to it right?? I was also only on progesterone for months back then. With everything I further found out and know about it now, I wonder if I should have just continued on it and not been scared of big nipples, I might even have been too quick to get a BA... Everyone is different. But do try and do your own research girls and try different things and request your endo tailors them to your needs and what you react best to! So long you follow your Drs guidelines and you are safe there's no reason why you can't help out with your own treatment and the choices that are being made!

Quote from: KayXo on May 30, 2015, 10:06:35 AM
Very doubtful unless you can provide evidence for this.

Well I can tell that its a centuries old recipe for adolescent girls.

There are reports of people who say it helped. (of course all without guarantees).

Increased blood flow and massage might also help stimulate receptors, flushing out toxins and bringing in new body liquids.

Well honestly there are some things people have used for centuries without exactly knowing why.
Imo if its not harmful it might be given a try.

I have been on Prometrium for a year to 15 months. I am a large A or small B in size and my boobs are a nice shape. When I inject I think I have a mini growth spurt. My nipple and areola growth has continued to grow and I am at the 2 year mark. I suspect a full B will be the 3 year size. I think the nice shape and development is aided by the P. I also noticed a more stable hormone balance with P, not as much of a up swing but that could be me just being use to the hormones.

Hi all

I´ve been following up this subject for quite a time now and I did a lot of research on my own also. What I could not put together for myself was, how can one seriously tell apart the effects of estradiol and progesterone in your body while you´re on both of it?

Prior to starting HRT, I´ve  had a lengthy debate with my endocrinologist on the progesterone subject because first, German doctors are veeeery reluctant in cycling Estrogen/ Progesterone prior to SRS and second, I wanted to know why, and if she would not think it would help me to develop my body properly... 

In a nutshell, the result of our discussion was:

Bioidentical Estrogen is the hormone primarily responsible for developing secondary sex characteristics in females, i.e. breast growth, shape of the body, and appearance of skin and hair. How Estrogen might affect your body depends on ones genetical setup. That´s why identical levels of Estrogen can lead to vastly different results in different persons.

Progesterone is primarily required to convert the female breast into a milk-producing organ. As a steroide it stimulates the development of mammary glands in the breast. One may remember that even in cis-women small breasts are common, so the overall level of  progesterone could play a minor role in breast development, since cis-women with small breast are able to breast-feed also.

She admitted though that progesterone can have an additive effect on the lactate level in ones body. Lactate is the enzyme that steers breast development.

She therefore prescribed Androcur as an anti-androgen for me, because Androcur would contain a certain amount of progesterone, having the desired effect on lactate levels without having the downsides of cycling hormones. Cycling hormones will be on the table post-op.

For my own experience with this kind of treatment, I can tell you, since I started HRT on a low-dose of Estrogen for two months, going up to the full-dose of Estrogen in the third month plus adding Androcur in the third month, being on full-dose HRT for approximately nine weeks now,  this treatment seem perfectly sufficient to me.

After having just minor bodily reactions while being on a low-dose of Estrogen (nipples were sore and so on) the bodily development since being on full-dose of Estrogen plus Androcur is just stunning. My lactate levels went through the ceiling, I started developing a feminine shaped waist, my legs are more rounded now and my face is thoroughly softening since then. Breast growth is on its way, and my receding hairline is growing back.

http://chestsculpting.com/progesterone-for-men-the-missing-link-in-man-boob-reduction/

i cannot find a date on this, but seems rather recent.  it shows how progesterone is good for males to help with the "male" figure.  please read and give opinions.  i could cut/paste, but better from where it sits.  i was for progesterone until this point.  now i need to do more research.  it says "with testosterone in males" it will help agains estradiol, and prevent "man boobs".    only good thing it would do for us m2f is reduces dht.. 
if this report is accurate, progesterone may be good for the f2m's.  if someone can prove this info, please let me/us know.  maybe our counterparts may be interested in this too?  very odd since it is against everything i thought progesterone did?  im going to research more, but would like to know if good info before i push too much on it and end up looking bad..  laters;)

Quote from: Cynobyte on June 04, 2015, 03:43:39 AM
http://chestsculpting.com/progesterone-for-men-the-missing-link-in-man-boob-reduction/

i cannot find a date on this, but seems rather recent.  it shows how progesterone is good for males to help with the "male" figure.  please read and give opinions.  i could cut/paste, but better from where it sits.  i was for progesterone until this point.  now i need to do more research.  it says "with testosterone in males" it will help agains estradiol, and prevent "man boobs".    only good thing it would do for us m2f is reduces dht.. 
if this report is accurate, progesterone may be good for the f2m's.  if someone can prove this info, please let me/us know.  maybe our counterparts may be interested in this too?  very odd since it is against everything i thought progesterone did?  im going to research more, but would like to know if good info before i push too much on it and end up looking bad..  laters;)

We are talking complicated systems here.
Its not like you take a component and build it in elsewhere and it does exactly the same there. It adapts and changes parameters.
This is why some endocrinologists clearly say they can not give exact doses. They have to give a specific dose and see what happens. Depending on the reaction adaptions might be necessary.

There are hormone therapies with implants of high doses of estrogen and medium doses of progesterone where no anti androgens are needed.
And the body reacts different if estro is taken orally/sublingual or via topical, injections or implants.

You cannot directly compare a testosterone dominated setup to an estrogen dominated one.
There are pathways from testo to estro that are only active to a small degree in an estro dominated surrounding.

Many of the effects cited in the article are known and imo beneficial in both setups:
- reduction of dht
- reduction of side effects
- increased libido
- might help with mood, blood sugar, thyroid, skin, anti inflamatory

Now the effect of helping with breast ducts seems not to be cited.
A bit of increased muscles might be of advantage (well toned body), and the androgenic effect they cite from prevention of estrone to estradiol is also different if estradiol is already present.


The article is written in an obtrusive way imo.
I'd agree that since bioidentical progesterone is not patented advantages are not widespread.


hugs

My housemate takes progesterone like for one week a month and she has only has been taking hormones for about 2-3 months and she has like way more breast development then I do and I'm almost at six months. She also is like 20 pounds lighter then me (Im 150). so she really didn't have any fat pre hrt. So I'm not gonna lie I really want to try it out. Because she is having really quick results on it. And I am jealous. I still pass better though.... 

thank you for the info Laura;) And Amber, your hrt achievements compared to your roommate could be just from genetics too.  Progesterone may have slowed her down for all we know, but I hope not.  I submitted the info above, yet I still have plans to try it again.  Im thinking of taking that article directly to my endo and look into injections.  I love the injections for estradiol because of better response.  Willing to see what a few months of natural progesterone will do.

The one tidbit in that article where they can link that "progesterone helps stop manboobs."  Although I dont call them that, I was originally a male!  What if doing this does cause shrinkage?  But the other effects are beneficial to the point Im gonna try.  If i do feel they are shrinking, I will pass it on.  Im looking at gastric bypass in Aug, so Im sure there will be shrinkage there:(  But next summer if I feel better and more healthy, I may just buy me a pair.  Thank you science for body parts! 

I will try to report on this, but even if with the progesterone, lets say i grow by a factor of 1, what if I start loosing them by a factor of 2?  my data would be flawed and I would report back that progesterone in fact does cause "boob loss", but it was just me.  So hopefully i remember to give an opinion before my bypass.  Wish me luck;)