Being cis would take a lot of worry and anger out of my life. However, I wouldn't change my life as it is because I would probably be a real jerk if born cis. I think that the main reason why people would want to be cis is due to unacceptance from cis people, which is why I always hope that the god they worship has a senses of humor with them and shows them what it is like to walk into a room and know your not welcome at least once.

I think having been born cis would have been just as hard because I've always been one to go with the flow.  My dad was very adamant about being 'normal'.  I'd have been happier with my body but I would have ended up having to come out as gay as I have a preference for men.  I would never have met the man I'm with now and my life would be drastically different.

More often I wish that I'd discovered I was trans when I was in high school than that I was born cis.

If i had a choice i would easily choise to be cisgendered. But i don't so i don't really need to think about it, im happy as is

Quote from: Rejennyrated on May 28, 2015, 01:29:59 PM
I see your point Amber - and I think what it reveals is my thinking as a (soon to be) doctor in that I do think of it in terms of a medical condition which I have now fixed. Thats quite interesting to me to see how my brain unconsciously looks at things through a lens of pathology.
...
So paradoxically I kind of psych people into granting me CIS privillege, which is not mine by rights, whilst being completely blatant about it. One day I suppose I may get my comeupance - but it hasnt happened yet...

"To a man with a hammer, every problem looks like a nail."
Congrats on your doctoral candidacy! I definitely think your chosen profession colors your views, but that doesn't make them invalid. Personally, I'm usually only a gender in relation to other people; when I'm by myself I rarely think about my being female or MAAB. So I only wear the trans-hat occasionally. It's like any other label I fit in; I wouldn't be tall if there weren't a majority of people shorter than me. Otherwise I'd just be nearly 5'10".
I think it's interesting the words you chose, "your comeuppance." You are already taking ownership of a future reprisal that challenges your womanhood. This in and of itself shows an internalized lack of privilege and acceptance of being trans. But how about this instead: Cis privilege is B.S.. No one deserves to be marginalized for any reason let alone what a doctor decreed at your birth. Genitals don't make a baby a man or a woman or anything other or in between. We grow up into women, men, agender people, third gender people, or somewhere between the popularized false binary.
I'll get off my soapbox now [emoji6]


     Hugs,
- Katie
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I suppose I should give an honest answer instead of my joking answer... At least you got it Katie  I'm about 1 month into hrt and still have not transitioned as I have a large frame and (slightly less than it used to be) heavy beard. Thats just for perspective. Up until I hit my 30's I think I wanted desperately to be cis though I never thought of it in those terms. I never really put all of my research together to realize that -I- could transition. So now, at this moment, I am okay with being trans because I see light at the end of the tunnel... and feel just a tiny bit of pain in my chest however if someone DID hand me a magic pill, ring, corset, etc that would transform me into a cis female with memories intact I would snatch it up in a heart beat.

Quote from: David27 on May 30, 2015, 01:40:27 PM
Being cis would take a lot of worry and anger out of my life. However, I wouldn't change my life as it is because I would probably be a real jerk if born cis. I think that the main reason why people would want to be cis is due to unacceptance from cis people, which is why I always hope that the god they worship has a senses of humor with them and shows them what it is like to walk into a room and know your not welcome at least once.

I wish cis-people could experience being trans if only for the sake of building empathy. If life were Super Mario, a lot of guys would have concussions. I try not to think about extra lives, I'm pretty focused on this one. Which is ironic because this is my What If? Thread.[emoji12]
Give your theoretical cis self a chance though, they can do or be anything, they don't have to be a jerk. My theoretical cis person is an astronaut, because, y'know I could've been in the Air Force if I weren't trans and a pacifist...[emoji41]
     Hugs,
- Katie
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Quote from: Obfuskatie on June 02, 2015, 11:11:52 AM
"To a man with a hammer, every problem looks like a nail."
Congrats on your doctoral candidacy! I definitely think your chosen profession colors your views, but that doesn't make them invalid. Personally, I'm usually only a gender in relation to other people; when I'm by myself I rarely think about my being female or MAAB. So I only wear the trans-hat occasionally. It's like any other label I fit in; I wouldn't be tall if there weren't a majority of people shorter than me. Otherwise I'd just be nearly 5'10".
I think it's interesting the words you chose, "your comeuppance." You are already taking ownership of a future reprisal that challenges your womanhood. This in and of itself shows an internalized lack of privilege and acceptance of being trans. But how about this instead: Cis privilege is B.S.. No one deserves to be marginalized for any reason let alone what a doctor decreed at your birth. Genitals don't make a baby a man or a woman or anything other or in between. We grow up into women, men, agender people, third gender people, or somewhere between the popularized false binary.
I'll get off my soapbox now [emoji6]
     Hugs,
- Katie
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Well done - thats quite genuinely probably the most interesting line of debate I've heard in some time, even if you did hang most of your agument on a throwaway little comment at the end - which if I am honest I only put in as a silly attempt to try and prevent anyone from telling me that I am an arrogant arse!

I don't really believe for even a nano second that I will get any comeuppance - but having previously had my head chewed off by a number of transpeople for alledgedly being insufferably self satisfied and privileged... (sometimes one just can't win.)

So no in actual fact not really taking ownership of any such thing... not least because I don't aspire to own "womanhood," whatever that may mean. Rather I am only concerned with being authentically me - because actually I can't know what its like to be anyone else, be they male or female, and so comparison with any such theoretical yardsticks is both futile and invideous.

Personally I don't believe in gender at all - never have, never will, therefore I can hardly be trans-something which does not exist except in the minds of those who choose to buy into it, which I don't. For me there IS only physical sex... those attributes I did not care for and sought to modify as best I could, given the medical technology available. Once I had done that, as far as I was concerned the defect had been fixed. (at least as far as it could be).

This of course does not make your argument wrong. Just based on a slightly different way of looking at the world I guess,

Quote from: Rejennyrated on June 02, 2015, 03:34:06 PM
Well done - thats quite genuinely probably the most interesting line of debate I've heard in some time, even if you did hang most of your agument on a throwaway little comment at the end - which if I am honest I only put in as a silly attempt to try and prevent anyone from telling me that I am an arrogant arse!

I don't really believe for even a nano second that I will get any comeuppance - but having previously had my head chewed off by a number of transpeople for alledgedly being insufferably self satisfied and privileged... (sometimes one just can't win.)

So no in actual fact not really taking ownership of any such thing... not least because I don't aspire to own "womanhood," whatever that may mean. Rather I am only concerned with being authentically me - because actually I can't know what its like to be anyone else, be they male or female, and so comparison with any such theoretical yardsticks is both futile and invideous.

Personally I don't believe in gender at all - never have, never will, therefore I can hardly be trans-something which does not exist except in the minds of those who choose to buy into it, which I don't. For me there IS only physical sex... those attributes I did not care for and sought to modify as best I could, given the medical technology available.

It wasn't my intention to pose an argument, just some armchair diagnosis based purely on turn of phrase and assumption I guess. Having opinions doesn't make you an arrogant arse either. Heck, I'm relatively self-satisfied and privileged in many ways, it doesn't make my experiences any less genuine. I figure being kind and a good person is more important than who has the heaviest baggage. But I could be wrong, you're right in that I can't know what it's truly live another person's experiences either. All I can do is be sympathetic and empathetic whenever possible.


     Hugs,
- Katie
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With out a doubt yes

Yes i would. In a heartbeat. So much i would rather be doing that preparing for my surgery later this month. As well as putting things i need to do on hold to complete transition. This world is full of hate, it's not made for everyone. But realisticly.. I cant change.. No mattwe how many wishes i wished. Now this is what i have to work with.. So im gonna do my best to be darn good at it.

Quote from: Rejennyrated on May 27, 2015, 06:36:31 PM
Perhaps I am missing the point here, but it has always been my belief, that once you no longer feel dysphoric you are no longer trans. I don't really accept the once trans always trans line of thought, because that's like saying it's some sort of incurable condition, whereas my view is whether by transition, or GRS or perhaps both, once you are happy with yourself then you are fixed, ergo no longer trans. You do of course have a trans history, and you always will, but not a trans present.

Thus I would argue that I was trans for the first five years of my life, before my parents allowed me to transition, and thanks to lack of puberty blockers back in the 1970's, I was trans again when puberty hit and I couldn't get HRT and SRS until I was an adult. However once I had both of those the dysphoria vanished and I ceased to have trans feelings. Thus I would argue that since my 20's I have effectively been functionally cis, although for some of my youth and childhood I was trans.

Now I know some people may find that over complicated, but it's just the way it makes sense to me, and I offer it as a possible alternative pov. Feel free to ignore my thoughts if you don't find that a helpful model, but please don't be offended because its just the way I see it.

Yes.. I feel there is a time to drop trans in front. However you can never change your trans history.. So instead of being a transperson .. You are a person of trans history.

Quote from: lovelessheart on June 04, 2015, 07:57:52 AM
Yes.. I feel there is a time to drop trans in front. However you can never change your trans history.. So instead of being a transperson .. You are a person of trans history.

Maybe I haven't gotten there yet. But I am in no way ashamed of being trans. I'm proud that I've undergone the difficult leap over the gender divide.

I don't see why I shouldn't refer to myself as a trans woman.

Quote from: lovelessheart on June 04, 2015, 07:57:52 AM
Yes.. I feel there is a time to drop trans in front. However you can never change your trans history.. So instead of being a transperson .. You are a person of trans history.

and

Quote from: suzifrommd on June 04, 2015, 08:09:09 AM
Maybe I haven't gotten there yet. But I am in no way ashamed of being trans. I'm proud that I've undergone the difficult leap over the gender divide.

I don't see why I shouldn't refer to myself as a trans woman.

Spot on the both of you! I tend toward view 1 - but I also have no quarrel with view 2 - its whatever makes you feel proud of who you are. The thing that really upsets me is those who end up deeply ashamed and feeling they have to hide, because I think "damn you went through all that to be something you are ashamed of? My that must suck bigtime!"

I like me - I like what I've done and I'm proud of my life - all of it!

I'm sure most of us wish we were born cis, and that's why we're trans. I have to say it seems like a learning experience to be born the wrong gender and venture back to what feels like yourself.

Quote from: Rejennyrated on June 04, 2015, 09:41:30 AM
and
Spot on the both of you! I tend toward view 1 - but I also have no quarrel with view 2 - its whatever makes you feel proud of who you are. The thing that really upsets me is those who end up deeply ashamed and feeling they have to hide, because I think "damn you went through all that to be something you are ashamed of? My that must suck bigtime!"

I like me - I like what I've done and I'm proud of my life - all of it!

I like to think of being trans as one of many labels that can describe me. I'm also nerdy, wordy, a musician, a programmer, a cinephile, a bibliophile, bi, etc. etc.. Rejecting any one aspect of myself isn't ok to me, even if #gamergate makes me ashamed to openly admit I'm a gamer. I can't help liking video-games, and I can get very competitive. I was just born this way [emoji12]

Quote from: Jake25 on June 04, 2015, 11:00:04 AM
I'm sure most of us wish we were born cis, and that's why we're trans. I have to say it seems like a learning experience to be born the wrong gender and venture back to what feels like yourself.

This is kinda why I asked the question, not whether we could be born cis, but could choose to be cis. Whether it's in your pre-transition body or as your chosen gender, I'd probably never have met any of you online had you'd all been cis. I always felt powerless because I was never given a choice as to the gender everyone assumed I identified or should identify with. I'm kinda getting to the point where I'm proud of my accomplishments, although it hasn't been easy. I wouldn't have that without my frustrating circumstances. But I'm pretty sure I'd be bored with an easy life.


     Hugs,
- Katie
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Cis for sure! I mean I've lost almost ten years trying to be someone I'm not. But I'm not ashamed of who I am a nor will I ever be.

No way I would want to be cis. I would never want to be as ignorant and bigoted as most of them are. I choose the knowledge I have gained from this any day of the year. I would find it rather insulting to even be asked such a choice

Cis people dont appreciate anything they have (in terms of their body, being right etc). Knowing what we know now we would of course appreciate everything but without this experience to begin with you wouldnt, would be completely ignorant to it and try to deny trans people being real and everything else they do to us. I understand in terms of safety and dealing with bs in everyday life in regards to being trans wanting to not have to deal with that I get. I dont see making us cis being the solution to that problem though. The solution is educating them. There is nothing wrong with us. Cis is not the 'natural state' that everything must fall into. Its them that needs to learn they are not the be all and end all of existing, accept us and stop the hate then we wont have the problems we have anyway. I dont even care about having to undergo surgery. It makes me more grateful for everything I have/will have because I know what its like not to have that. There is nothing more liberating than becoming who you really are, something cis people can never understand. Yes it can cost a lot of money and it shouldnt. I still wouldnt trade any of this. There is no shame in being trans and I'd prefer not to be ignorant and uneducated so Im glad to be what I am now

Whether I could choose to be born cis or have the choice to be made cis the answer remains the same: absolutely NO

If I was born cis I would not have lead the life I did which resulted in the birth of my two children.  I can't ever wish for that to be undone.  Thus said, if you had asked before they were born, hell yea.  I won't outline the mental wrestling and how long it took for me to accept I was indeed trans, even though it had haunted me since I was like 5 or so.  My wall was that I could not change my physical form to match my mental.  I simply didn't accept the potential with hormones and surgery.  Stupid opinion but hiding behind that did let me raise my kids. 

Of course if I could magically transform now to be cis, then again hell to the yea. 

If I were MAAB, I'd have been far more at risk for cycle-of-abuse garbage. (My father got the worst of it from his father, because he was the only boy. I would expect that to repeat.) And I certainly wouldn't have had an acceptable masculine role model when first looking for one. Had I followed his lead, I'd be in pretty sorry shape by this point in my life.

So no, I wouldn't choose to be cis if I couldn't also change a bunch of other things about the situation I was born into. Appearing female shielded me from harm when I was least able to protect myself.

Hi,

Im not sure about the choice as i did not need one ,i was given what i needed at birth you can say .
Being born different has been a blessing in so many ways and made such a difference  in my life , i could not see or can see any other way,
so to answer the ? how can i answer would i have or wont to be a normal male or female in all of its detail 100% ether way..... no .....  just no way .....

I have what very few have , i know theres some details would have been lovely to have been able to do  yet over all i have the best of both worlds of male female in how i see myself and what i have done and can do .

Okay i missed out on haveing my own child and thats hard to bear and cope with as any female knows who are like myself in not having your own child,
in most aspects of who i am is a normal female yet im very fortunate in having some male aspects that have helped me in so many ways  though i may not have seen this at the time its paid off in  lovely ways ,

I have grown into being who i am  , when you can say that with confidence and a confiction and know who you are , then you can be proud of your self and live life to the full , I did not say perfectly or better than ...any one ....else  just in a way you know is just so right for you  in my case myself , and being happy content and able to be fullfilled as a person and female /male .

...noeleena...