Quote from: deeiche on May 06, 2015, 07:46:53 AM
Damn, I hate the phrase "clock".  People are stupid, face it.  They base their observations on stereotypes.  Many cis women get taken for men, not because they are shaved head butches, but because they don't meet societal norms.  I've played a lot of team sports over the years, with a lot of cis women.  They are muscled, athletic women, who don't wear makeup all the time, they don't wear girly clothes.  Also, they present an air of confidence that a lot of women who've been brought up in a male dominated culture don't have.

This perception that you need to wear makeup all the time to "present" female is ridiculous.  I'm an engineer, and work at a facility with a lot of female engineers.  Do you think they all layer up with makeup everyday?  No, they are no nonsense women who know who they are and they have a job to do.  I'm also part time farmer/rancher and interact with a lot of "salt of the earth folks".  These women don't layer up with makeup, nor wear sun dresses all day.  They get up in the morning, drive tractor, births calves, work in the field, etc.  You doubt they are female and you'll get wacked up the side of your head.

I should go back to the shadows.

Exactly. I love dressing up, dont get me wrong... but I dont want to have to cake my face on with makeup just to pass. You have a point. One friend of mine, at work was sird... and is gg. But I gueas at the end of the day... people get clocked... rathere they are born in their gender or not.

So I guess its safe to say... bbeing clocked isnt just for trans. Its for people period. People get race, ethnicity, gender and people confused all the time.

Quote from: SorchaC on May 06, 2015, 03:18:25 PM
Sadly yes no matter how good you are someone somewhere will work it out one day but that doesn't mean they'll say anything nor should they. If someone was presenting as female most decent folks would address them as such unless they were making the point they'd worked it out or thought they had.

When I went full time I had a cis friend who would hang out with me and she got read as trans often even though she wasn't because she worked as a lighting coordinator in a theatre and was always in her scruff without make up because she had to climb rigging or go under stages so was hardly going to go out all dolled up. People are just cruel or their own lives are such a mess that they feel better about themselves by making someone feel worse than they do. I've no idea what you look like but I'm sure you're a lovely woman so try not to let what people think of your appearance spoil your happiness

Hugs

Sorcha 

Quote from: lovelessheart on May 06, 2015, 09:46:44 PM

So I guess its safe to say... bbeing clocked isnt just for trans. Its for people period. People get race, ethnicity, gender and people confused all the time.

I'd say you've got the idea 

Just be you and don't worry what others think or say unless they are close to you like family friends or a partner.

Hugs

Sorcha 

Quote from: lovelessheart on May 06, 2015, 09:46:44 PM
So I guess its safe to say... bbeing clocked isnt just for trans. Its for people period. People get race, ethnicity, gender and people confused all the time.

Spot on.

FWIW, I transitioned on the job in 1984.  It was not easy to transition then, I doubt it is any easier to transition now.

may you have a good life

Quote from: Danielle11746 on May 03, 2015, 12:16:35 AM
Give you face time to heal.  You might look like you have had work done and that could be bringing the attention and people questioning your gender.  It take a long time for the face to settle, then once it settles it needs to mold and age along with you, kinda get broken in.  How long ago did you have surgery?

This is very true!!!!

I had a lot of help from my ex wife.. she is my BFF and has given me so much advise.. and is 100% honest with me.
I pass 100% but did have FFS and my body has changed a lot in 16 months of FFS.. Been full time 5 months..
Here are some of her tips.
Shoulders back head upright.. posture is important.
Confidence.. look straight ahead and do your thing like its no ones business..
Wear appropriate clothing.. I have a thick upper body and am 18 inches wide and 5-6 so I am thick.. so I wear loose fitting clothes to enhance my hips and butt. to make up for my thick upper body.
Women come in all sizes and shapes..
Look people straight in the eye when you talk and smile...
It takes time.. I have about another year I would say before I can wear a tight t shirt and no makeup..
I am sure I have had people wonder.. but no way would they think for sure I am a guy.. might think I am a bodybuilder chick..  but that is in public not on a date ...
Dodie

Quote from: lovelessheart on May 06, 2015, 09:46:44 PM
So I guess its safe to say... bbeing clocked isnt just for trans. Its for people period. People get race, ethnicity, gender and people confused all the time.

That is so right. You know, in some places, people who are not ethnically white do also try to pass as white and have the same fear of being read. I guess everybody wants the advantages of the "normal" group.

Even after FFS I think I occasionally get read but I've never had someone misgender me.I tend to think they are just nice and polite.My partner thinks it's all in my head.All she sees is a woman and she's not the sort to be dishonest in her assessment.Yet I still have my insecurities but honestly they actually are really small compared with with the dysphoria and unhappiness I felt prior to transitioning.The fact that I feel things more,am more open and sensitive does mean that these insecurities can play on me.

Dodie, this is the best tip ever. I have never been clocked in the last little while and I agree - straight posture with shoulders back, confidence, knowing what to wear for your body type, subtle and glowing makeup and of course smiling a lot - BAM - That's a woman!

Quote from: Dodie on May 11, 2015, 03:57:06 PM
I had a lot of help from my ex wife.. she is my BFF and has given me so much advise.. and is 100% honest with me.
I pass 100% but did have FFS and my body has changed a lot in 16 months of FFS.. Been full time 5 months..
Here are some of her tips.
Shoulders back head upright.. posture is important.
Confidence.. look straight ahead and do your thing like its no ones business..
Wear appropriate clothing.. I have a thick upper body and am 18 inches wide and 5-6 so I am thick.. so I wear loose fitting clothes to enhance my hips and butt. to make up for my thick upper body.
Women come in all sizes and shapes..
Look people straight in the eye when you talk and smile...
It takes time.. I have about another year I would say before I can wear a tight t shirt and no makeup..
I am sure I have had people wonder.. but no way would they think for sure I am a guy.. might think I am a bodybuilder chick..  but that is in public not on a date ...
Dodie

You will be a better judge of this than me but if you are extremely attractive you are going to get a look from women you come in contact with. Women are always checking out other women for tips that they can incorporate into their own look and they aren't very subtle about it. I am not around strange women that much and when I am, I am in a store where I am dressed down so I tend to be just one of the crowd. The reason why women have to have that perfect look when the go to a formal party is because they know they will be undressed by every woman there. It could be a sign of acceptance that they are trying to steal your beauty secrets.

Quote from: Cindy on May 03, 2015, 05:51:52 AM
This may sound silly.

Cis women don't worry that they are seen as trans*. So no one cares. Trans* women do. They get 'clocked' (horrible term).

I don't care. No one clocks me. If they do I don't care.

I agree, just be a woman, dress nice, nice makeup, speak nice, be proud of yourself.....If anyone calls you sir just say I beg your pardon! Just enjoy being a woman more maybe, smile, be happy........

Maybe it's just your imagination.  My test is to go to the mall and walk through a group of teenage girls.  The theory is that teen girls are superficial by nature and tend to scrutinize other females with a vengeance.  If something is off they will most likely let you know it.  I've done this several times and so far I guess I pass the test.  They barely even notice me at all other than a quick glance but that's about it.  Kids are another excellent test because they don't know yet know better. If somthing isn't quite right they will stare a hole in you.  Fortunately I have managed to pass the kid test too.

Quote from: Amy1988 on July 07, 2015, 02:51:02 PM
Maybe it's just your imagination.  My test is to go to the mall and walk through a group of teenage girls.  The theory is that teen girls are superficial by nature and tend to scrutinize other females with a vengeance.  If something is off they will most likely let you know it.  I've done this several times and so far I guess I pass the test.  They barely even notice me at all other than a quick glance but that's about it.  Kids are another excellent test because they don't know yet know better. If somthing isn't quite right they will stare a hole in you.  Fortunately I have managed to pass the kid test too.

I disagree with this.  Kids are dumber than you think.  All it takes is long hair for them to get confused about whether someone is male or female especially because they get gender roles drilled into their heads by todays society, girls have long hair boys have short, girls wear pink, boys wear blue ect.

As for teenage girls... yes they look at girls, but they don't notice older women they are too busy focusing on other teens or younger girls, those are the people they really drill into.

I think the best tests are just interacting with people normally in day to day life and pay attention to how they react to you.  If you don't pass, honestly most people will react kind of strangely even if they don't say anything outright.

Quote from: lovelessheart on May 02, 2015, 09:10:49 PM
So as the title says. . In the past few months ive been clocked more than need be. Its strange because im not quite sure why. My surgeon was dr cardenas, but I have gotton regular recomendations from other doctors and they tell me I dont need anything else! And that anything else would to subtle changea. This is frustrating because I dont want to be clocked unintentionally. Im supposedly stelth at work, howver ive been clocked there a few times. Does any have a third party app such as kik? Or email I can send picw to for recommendations? And advice... im literally mind boggled... right now I just want a whole new face. I have no idea what it could be. My voice is suuperb. Never got the chance to get deep... as well as no adams apple. Im confused.. maybe its my 5"8 height?? Stressed...

Well, I'm trying to think about my own situation... I find myself at this juncture at which I'm considered to be super-attractive as a female, yet a handful of people have asked if I'm "secretly a boy".  Two of the instances, I know were because of my voice (I'd say it's androgynous, but still has resonance to it, as I don't have space to train it), while one of them was brought on due to me being so "fit".  This person stated that women are never as "fit" as I am, and that that makes them suspicious that I am a man.  People just say ->-bleeped-<- like that, I think, because they know that trans women are in existence perhaps.

So, the thing is -- I'm 5 ft. 10 with my shoes on, and I probably have classic "transsexual voice", and I'm really toned from having low body fat, but these traits are traits I'm complimented on most frequently  I have friends who are uber-gorgeous trans women, and who also occasionally get clocked for reasons that make no sense, and I think it just comes down to certain members of society fearing with all they have that they've encountered a "man dressed as a woman" and accidentally treated them as female. 

In order to reconcile with my own instances of being clocked, I've tried to consider all of the super-gorgeous female celebrities that people have decided are "secretly a man", with no rationale whatsoever.  I mean, even a diva like Ciara doesn't meet society's expectations and must be a "man"?  Really???

It seems that many women occasionally get this -- especially if they're beautiful -- but if it's someone thinking you're male at first glance, I'd examine your musculature.  I don't think that people realize how much more muscular guys are then women, and I think it plays a huge role in people's perceptions at first glance.

Other than that, I'm not entirely sure, but I'd rather be a gorgeous-ass vixen of a trans woman, as I am, than one of society's everyday rotund, corn-fed little cis woman who passes with ease but is considered unattractive. 

Ally

Quote from: Jasper93 on July 09, 2015, 12:04:51 AM
SNIP
Other than that, I'm not entirely sure, but I'd rather be a gorgeous-ass vixen of a trans woman, as I am, than one of society's everyday rotund, corn-fed little cis woman who passes with ease but is considered unattractive. 

Ally

just my US$.02 worth

Do you know how condescending and misogynistic that sounds?

Quote from: Jasper93 on July 09, 2015, 12:04:51 AM
Well, I'm trying to think about my own situation... I find myself at this juncture at which I'm considered to be super-attractive as a female, yet a handful of people have asked if I'm "secretly a boy".  Two of the instances, I know were because of my voice (I'd say it's androgynous, but still has resonance to it, as I don't have space to train it), while one of them was brought on due to me being so "fit".  This person stated that women are never as "fit" as I am, and that that makes them suspicious that I am a man.  People just say ->-bleeped-<- like that, I think, because they know that trans women are in existence perhaps.

So, the thing is -- I'm 5 ft. 10 with my shoes on, and I probably have classic "transsexual voice", and I'm really toned from having low body fat, but these traits are traits I'm complimented on most frequently  I have friends who are uber-gorgeous trans women, and who also occasionally get clocked for reasons that make no sense, and I think it just comes down to certain members of society fearing with all they have that they've encountered a "man dressed as a woman" and accidentally treated them as female. 

In order to reconcile with my own instances of being clocked, I've tried to consider all of the super-gorgeous female celebrities that people have decided are "secretly a man", with no rationale whatsoever.  I mean, even a diva like Ciara doesn't meet society's expectations and must be a "man"?  Really???

It seems that many women occasionally get this -- especially if they're beautiful -- but if it's someone thinking you're male at first glance, I'd examine your musculature.  I don't think that people realize how much more muscular guys are then women, and I think it plays a huge role in people's perceptions at first glance.

Other than that, I'm not entirely sure, but I'd rather be a gorgeous-ass vixen of a trans woman, as I am, than one of society's everyday rotund, corn-fed little cis woman who passes with ease but is considered unattractive. 

Ally

Your description of the average cis women gave me a laugh.  Also I agree.  I know in Asia you have modeltier looks people always joke that you must actually be gay (be trans) because I don't even know its just like a thing where if you are "too perfect" they say that.  Part of it I guess is that some of the best feminine looks need some masculinity to really get into beautiful territory, like some strong bone structure here or there.  And yea body types are important. I know whenever I see a cis women who is very fit with some muscle I stare for a bit and its kind of fascinating almost.  LUCKILY FOR YOU crossfit and female body building is catching on and I've seen like cuties sporting abs and some nice guns and very muscled toned bodies.  Hopefully this dilutes the waters.  Of course most mtfs have larger bone structure so any muscle they put on will look more masculine than the muscle a cis women puts on, oh well.

Quote from: deeiche on July 09, 2015, 07:42:08 AM
just my US$.02 worth

Do you know how condescending and misogynistic that sounds?

How is it misogynistic?  Our society is so silly, like you can't criticize women at all or you are some horrible women hater now.  I wonder if she was talking about men and their beer guts if she would be called "misandristic".  Its not like shes talking about anyone in particular. 

Quote from: Jasper93 on July 09, 2015, 12:04:51 AMI'd rather be a gorgeous-ass vixen of a trans woman, as I am, than one of society's everyday rotund, corn-fed little cis woman who passes with ease but is considered unattractive.

I'm literally LoL after reading this... that's awesome on multiple levels.

Sorry, I deserve a down-vote as I have nothing to add to this thread

Quote from: Jasper93 on July 08, 2015, 11:44:07 PM
Well, I'm trying to think a

Kids may not be that smart but they sure as hell notice when somthing is strange about another person.  Especially the face.  As for teen girls I maintain my original assertion.

Quote from: Jasper93 on July 09, 2015, 12:04:51 AM
Well, I'm trying to think about my own situation... I find myself at this juncture at which I'm considered to be super-attractive as a female, yet a handful of people have asked if I'm "secretly a boy".  Two of the instances, I know were because of my voice (I'd say it's androgynous, but still has resonance to it, as I don't have space to train it), while one of them was brought on due to me being so "fit".  This person stated that women are never as "fit" as I am, and that that makes them suspicious that I am a man.  People just say ->-bleeped-<- like that, I think, because they know that trans women are in existence perhaps.

So, the thing is -- I'm 5 ft. 10 with my shoes on, and I probably have classic "transsexual voice", and I'm really toned from having low body fat, but these traits are traits I'm complimented on most frequently  I have friends who are uber-gorgeous trans women, and who also occasionally get clocked for reasons that make no sense, and I think it just comes down to certain members of society fearing with all they have that they've encountered a "man dressed as a woman" and accidentally treated them as female. 

In order to reconcile with my own instances of being clocked, I've tried to consider all of the super-gorgeous female celebrities that people have decided are "secretly a man", with no rationale whatsoever.  I mean, even a diva like Ciara doesn't meet society's expectations and must be a "man"?  Really???

It seems that many women occasionally get this -- especially if they're beautiful -- but if it's someone thinking you're male at first glance, I'd examine your musculature.  I don't think that people realize how much more muscular guys are then women, and I think it plays a huge role in people's perceptions at first glance.

Other than that, I'm not entirely sure, but I'd rather be a gorgeous-ass vixen of a trans woman, as I am, than one of society's everyday rotund, corn-fed little cis woman who passes with ease but is considered unattractive. 

Ally

Sorry, but Ciara does have masculine features, strong jaw, robust nose, large chin