What Makes a Woman?

By Elinor Burkett
6/6, 2015

Link: http://mobile.nytimes.com/2015/06/07/opinion/sunday/what-makes-a-woman.html?smid=fb-nytimes&smtyp=cur&_r=2&referrer=

I have fought for many of my 68 years against efforts to put women — our brains, our hearts, our bodies, even our moods — into tidy boxes, to reduce us to hoary stereotypes. Suddenly, I find that many of the people I think of as being on my side — people who proudly call themselves progressive and fervently support the human need for self-determination — are buying into the notion that minor differences in male and female brains lead to major forks in the road and that some sort of gendered destiny is encoded in us.

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A feminist perspective from Elinor Burkett on Caitlyn Jenner's Vanity Fair "coming out". Elinor Burkett is a journalist, documentary filmmaker, and a former professor of women's studies.

The most upsetting parts of this opinion piece are the contradictions and the inconsistencies.  Ms Burkett decides to judge transwomens' experience solely on the one example of Caitlyn Jenner. She completely dismisses the varied experiences which did not result as a consequence of later life transition. That Caitlyn Jenner took part in - what some would argue was - a life of male privilege does not invalidate the experiences of numerous transwomen who did not.  For those transwomen who have never known male privilege and have had to battle every day with the hetero-patriarchal system we live in (and have the bruises to prove it) where is their place in Ms Burkett's arguments?

Nail polish does not a woman make? Well, neither does the drama of an emergency contraceptive experience... Just ask any woman suffering with infertility.

It's a jolly silly debate anyway because no one can know with any certainty what it is like to be anything other than whatever they are, so its a question with no right or wrong answer! Ergo debate on the subject is pointless and best avoided.

I read this article and I do not consider it to be either a good or bad take on what is a very complex situation.  It's an opinion.

Humans, by our nature, tend to classify and assign labels, generalising as much as possible where we can.  "Women" is a classification, but it's an extremely broad one when all things are considered, and this is probably correct.  But there is no such thing as an archetypal woman, so all of us just try to fit into that category however we can, without thoughts of precision.   I do not for one moment believe that experience alone defines womanhood, although it's a major part.  Fundamentally, how we define ourselves is an internal state, often uniquely so, and not always possible to precisely share with others.

We do bring a unique perspective to womanhood - how could this be otherwise? - but at the same time we are aiming for broadly the same place, despite any widely differing experiences we may have.  In the context of reasonable debate there is much which unites all of us, and very little which divides, unless we allow divisive voices on either side to deliberately create differences.

I thought it was odd that all her examples of shared women's experiences, reduced women to body parts, ie, breasts getting stared at, starting your period unexpectedly, forgetting birth control.  So a genetic woman who is infertile or has had a mastectomy is NOT a woman by her standards?

The author is best known for storming the stage at the Oscars, interrupting the winning director of a documentary film. She says she was supposed to be up there as one of the producers, but others say she had dropped out of the project.  Regardless, the way she did was obnoxious, and she started her interruption with "Isn't that just like a man?" Subtle she is not.

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Womanhood is about the shared experience of pain and suffering for simply being a woman, whether that's menstruation, being dismissed in the board room or being marganilized for being a trans woman.  Yes we all have different experiences and some of us are outliers - infertile, mastectomy or trans - but we can all find commonality in the shared experience of pain if not the actual experience most of the time. 

The nail polish comment is gross - that was a quippy way for a high femme gal to say I can finally live in the open now.  That's all that was.  disingenuous comment by the author.


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I too struggle with what makes someone a woman. A few years ago I was a man, living as a man, seeing myself as a man, and accepted and perceived as a man by everyone in my life. I was not effeminate in any way, and came across so typically male, that when I decided to transition I surprised every single person in my life.

Since then I changed my dress and appearance (that didn't make me a woman), my voice (also didn't make me a woman), started taking hormones (did that make me a woman?) and had my body altered to have female lower parts (I know that didn't make me a woman).

So where do I get off calling myself a woman?

It's worth talking about. I'm concerned at statements to the effect that there are no such things as male or female traits. True, no prediction can be a given male or a given female. But if you go to a crowd of random people and ask who would like to be part of a tackle football league, I bet most of the people who volunteered would be male. Likewise, if you asked who wanted to be part of a sewing circle, you'll get a few men amid a larger number of females.

I'm concerned that statements like that serve more to further a political objective (if men and women are the same then no one can justify discrimination) rather than as a factual description of the true nature of the male and female experiences.

And I don't trust people who will alter the truth for political purposes. I just don't.

Quote from: suzifrommd on June 08, 2015, 09:06:23 AM
I too struggle with what makes someone a woman. A few years ago I was a man, living as a man, seeing myself as a man, and accepted and perceived as a man by everyone in my life. I was not effeminate in any way, and came across so typically male, that when I decided to transition I surprised every single person in my life.

Since then I changed my dress and appearance (that didn't make me a woman), my voice (also didn't make me a woman), started taking hormones (did that make me a woman?) and had my body altered to have female lower parts (I know that didn't make me a woman).

So where do I get off calling myself a woman?

^^This.  I really struggle with this question.   I am just starting on my path to transition.  I've been seeing a therapist and doing electrolysis for about 10 months now, and will start hormone therapy later this month.  But what exactly do I hope to achieve? I don't hate being male, I just don't like it, and would greatly prefer not to be one.

I did benefit from "male privilege".  I'm 57.  I have had a nice career in the defense industry as a scientist (PhD in chemistry), with the six-figure salary, and the wife and kids and house and mortgage.  Probably many things I would not have had, had I grown up female. Not in my generation, anyway.

Nonetheless, I always look at women with envy.  I love women, and very much want to live out the rest of my life... "as a woman"?  I can't say I can do that.  I decided after reading this article, and many comments pertaining to it, that I am not trying to be a woman, I am endeavoring to live a "female-patterned life".  That is, with predominately female sensibilities and points of view.  It is just so much more comfortable for me.  I will gladly accept the prejudices, double-standards, and all the other social slights women endure on a daily basis, for a chance to bask in femininity as a daily event, not just moments dressing at  home, looking into a mirror, and gently pronouncing to no one, "someday".

The obvious comeback is, "well, why don't you just live like that now, without the hormones, electrolysis, and surgeries?".  My answer is that "being a gender" is a social function as much (maybe  more?) than a biological function. It's how you react to people reacting to you.  I want people to perceive me as female, and get treated accordingly, even if that means auto mechanics will routinely look at me as an easy mark, and I get passed over for promotions to less capable but more noticeable men. I want to live in a woman's world, as much as  that is possible, for better or for worse. 

Quote from: Maybebaby56 on June 08, 2015, 05:09:18 PM
I want people to perceive me as female, and get treated accordingly, even if that means auto mechanics will routinely look at me as an easy mark, and I get passed over for promotions to less capable but more noticeable men. I want to live in a woman's world, as much as  that is possible, for better or for worse.

And I've found that it's mostly for better. Yes there is male privilege, but there is female privilege as well. It's cute, not scary, when I smile at someone's kids. Women randomly start talking to me in public. That never happened before. I'm not judged by how much money I make or how many direct reports I have.  I'm not expected to be tough or violent when necessary.

Thought the best privilege of all is to be able to be myself.

Quote from: suzifrommd on June 08, 2015, 06:16:43 PM
And I've found that it's mostly for better. Yes there is male privilege, but there is female privilege as well. It's cute, not scary, when I smile at someone's kids. Women randomly start talking to me in public. That never happened before. I'm not judged by how much money I make or how many direct reports I have.  I'm not expected to be tough or violent when necessary.

Thought the best privilege of all is to be able to be myself.

Suzi, I just want to reach out and hug you.  You are so spot-on with your comments.  Yes, this is exactly what I'm talking about.  I don't like the male value system.  I don't like what society values in males.  I've been doing it all my life, and it just leaves me empty.

Terri

It is very saddening to see this article.  Not only that, but supposedly educated people and people who support things like same sex marriage are giving it credibility.

It made me cry and want to go in a corner and want to give up.