So, I've been working hard on my voice. I've learnt a lot over time, and on the positive side I feel like my vocal range has expanded and that I've learnt how to do vocal things I never knew I could before, as well as knowing much more about what differentiates male and female voices. On that side, I feel happy.

Yet when I record my voice, I keep feeling such dysphoria and despair. I had a bad mental breakdown over this two days ago. A part of it is how different your voice sounds recorded versus in your head; I know why this is, but it still frustrates me because in my head I sometimes think I have this resonant lower female voice, and then the recording sounds so weird by comparison. I know voice is a process--but I'm doing everything I've researched and I still can't get it to sound right. At best, I feel like I get a voice that sounds like that of a woman who has some kind of bad vocal defect, far from anything normal. And it frustrates me. I wonder if I can really improve my voice because I don't know what I am doing wrong. I wonder if, with a voice that I myself dislike so much, I can function in the world. I am afraid of upcoming teaching because I keep seeing my kids laughing at me rather than listening (last time, I taught using my 'male' voice and hated it every day). I wonder how someone could want to wake up next to me with a voice so...bizarre, a voice I myself dislike. I have been in a panic at times for two hours before making a simple phone call to order delivery food simply because I am so dysphoric about my voice.

And that is the big thing: the dysphoria is kiling me. I am so unhappy with my voice that it makes me unhappy with my transition as a whole.

I know the pitch to aim for and can hit it easily, though my voice does tend to drop a bit as I speak, sometimes a little outside the female range. I know how to raise my larynx, squeeze it, and push it back with my throat muscles. I know about adding breathiness into my voice and being melodic. I do admittedly appear to have an issue with nasality, as well as, curiosly, with my accent disappearing when I try to shift my voice, but that is the least of my problems. I have watched CandiFLA and many other YouTubers regarding voice, read guides online, begun to use the Eva app.

So I wrote this to ask for advice, if possible, and anecdotes, and help. For those of you with passable voices: did you ever have a stage in the beginning where you could tell your voice sounded different when you got it into the 'female range' but it didn't sound like a 'normal' voice at all? How long did you practice? How did you get over your voice dysphoria, if you had it? How did you get over speaking in public when your voice still didn't sound normal? Can some people simply never attain a female voice through practice? (I'm not a smoker, incidentally, so that's not a factor. I only smoked for a few months in my life in the past, between 1 - 4 a day, and have not touched a cigarette for a long time.) Are there any unusual tips you could share--anything beyond the normal about head vs. chest resonance, etc.?

Thank you in advance. I'm still trying. I'm trying not to give up. Transition teaches you a lot about persistence, about strength--but on some days it is almost too much and I have to try very, very hard not to crumble away.

The YouTube videos never helped me.

I took a book, LEAN IN by Facebook COO Sheryl Sandberg, flipped a few pages in and started reading out loud contorting, lifting, and straining my vocals to test different pitch, upper throat + nasal resonances until it started to sound right (and not falsetto) and kept on practicing. Eventually for me I started feeling very comfortable staying in the upper range and usually it sticks when I'm speaking with strangers and not shouting. Your female voice starts to imprint itself into your psyche and you get more and more conditioned to always use it.

The only time I start to lose it is when speaking to family members or others who have known me as a male for a long time. I drop to a lower female range and can't help it because my experiences speaking 'male' is so ingrained in my relationship with said persons that it seems to overpower my will to speak in my female range.

Either way I believe in a vocal 'muscle memory' effect that can only be improved with continuing practice.

Forget the videos, everyone's ideal vocal lift and resonance zone is different, find your range for yourself. It will take a lot of experimenting.

Tons of practice and there really is sometimes no replacement from having to use it all the time from being full time. I have my moments where for a moment it will try to drop down some especially when around my disabled mom and brother at home, but over all it generally stays around where I want it. Anything you can do practice stretching those vocal cords will help. I hate how my voice sounded being recorded it's why I haven't bothered changing away from the standard greeting on my phone voice mail at this point. Hugs
Mariah

I always hated my voice so I can relate. I'm at a stage where on a good day, in very controlled situations it is almost not bad, but it is a very very frustrating process and it is one of the things which is holding me back in my transition as I have to hold trainings and talk to people regularly so I need a good voice.

I'm trying a lot of different exercises and I find that exercises which are designed for singers can help us too to some extent but it still takes a lot of practice to move forward.

Well you know this already but I tried to practice and just said forget about it, I will just get the surgery which I was going to get ANYWAY. That I am doing.

I still have to train post surgery though.

I suppose I don't know *what* to practice. No matter what I try, I don't get anywhere. My best attempts at my voice thus far are still being gendered 'male' when I ask for an opinion on them and I literally am at a loss as to what to do. I try lifting my larynx and bringing it back manually to try to get into a different range. But apparently I'm failing at this. Speaking higher just makes me sound like an effeminate male. I'm at a loss and it's crushing me because I can't afford surgery and I don't think I can psychologically bear to transition if my voice sounds masculine.

How far back are you supposed to 'push' the larynx after bringing it up? When I listen to recordings of myself after I think I've gotten my voice into a more feminine range (my head voice), I find that I sound like a male trying a bad imitation of a female voice (not falsetto). I'm just at a complete loss and need help; I can't go through with all this if my voice sounds like this.

It's humiliating for me to admit but I think I'm losing my mind. I can't get this voice to work and I don't think I can do this whole thing if I can't get the voice. Other women are strong enough to but not me. I want the voice but no matter what I try, I sound male or like something far from what I want. Sorry--I seem to be on the verge of another breakdown. I wish I knew what to do.

Did anyone else experience having a high pitched voice after general anesthesia? The day after I was put under general my voice was VERY high pitched. It sounded like a female voice. I have my times when it comes out softer but my voice does not pass most of the time except on that day. I heard it might be because I had a tube down my throat but people say your voice might sound hoarse after that....not high pitched.

In my opinion its not really a matter of pitch, so much as intonation and cadence. Thirty years ago when I was newly remade, I used to lighten the pitch, and because I have a very plastic voice which when singing allows me to sing Soprano Alto Tenor and Bass when I want to, I dont find it difficult to form a female pitch, however these days I rarely bother, because I've come to like my slighly growly female lion voice...

I guess because I grew up being allowed to express my gender I learned from an early age how girls talk.

So even though these days I use a low purr, possibly as befits my advancing years, I am still gendered female pretty well all of the time because my tone of voice and my vocal mannerisms convey female. Prior to being a medical student I worked in broadcasting and for a while I used to broadcast fairly regularly on the radio. Well of course if you are on TV people can see you, but if you are on the radio they have to get your gender entirely by sound. I think because of that I spent a fair bit of time thinking about how I speak.

The thing to do is listen to women who have low voices - mostly they are sultry and alluring - there is an oddly DIRECT quality to a mans voice the attack is hard and the tone is very pure and matter of fact... The vocal cords get straight on to the sound they want, Women are far less direct - they slide around - they purr rather than rumble - they slink and glide rather than RASP... the vocal cords work gently up to the desired sound and then slip gently off it making a rounder softer impression in which the whole thing is smoother and less staccato.

This is proving really difficult to convey in typed words - but I'm trying to give you a sense of what i perceive. Really the best thing to do is listen to women who have lower pitch - like lauren bacall, Meryl streep, Judi Dench, Sigourney Weaver in later years... just listen and find a voice you like and start by learning to mimic them... then slow evolve it into your own style, but try not to obsess about pitch because it really isnt about that.

Anyway please take care - and keep trying - you look fabulous and really with looks like that you deserve to succeed.

I agree with Rejennyrated's wise words here. My first therapist told me I could be a woman with a deep voice. I asked her if women have deep voices. She said yes they do you just have to speak like a woman.

I understand that women can have deeper voices and in fact I have always wanted a sultry deeper voice. But I can't mimic people's voices. I am not a singer. I was not allowed to express my gender from a young age. I do not have a naturally higher voice. And so I keep trying to figure out, scientifically, what to do, because I need to be told something specific to try. I'm in a place of despair because I've tried and tried and all my recordings just sound male at the end of the day. Beyond this, my transphobic mother is coming to see me soon and I know she will just take my voice as further 'proof' of what I am--and am not--to her. I'm having trouble dealing. I just got in the car to do something stupid and stopped myself at the last moment. I usually try to be strong but I have an increasing sense that I cannot get my voice into a female range, no matter what I do, and it's destroying me because I do not want that man voice coming out of my mouth.

Have you tried Finding Your Female Voice? It's pretty different from any of the youtube videos I have found.

I've tried different voice training on youtube, and it's doesn't work for me too. I try hit the high pitch, but it sound more like rock n roll high pitch though, as I natural have super big voice. But I am able to come up with the female voice occasionally, I found that it come from my feeling. Like if I talk to the guy I like the voice tone become automatically feminine high, but that can last only short period of time, I can't hold to that voice forever. But when I talk to my friends the tone is kidda low. I also found that Alex Vause's voice from Orange is the New Black is really cool deep female voice. So I try to hold on that tone as I have a deep voice too.

I am really intense in anything goal I set my mind to accomplish and my voice was one that I felt I needed to address asap. I was reaching a point of despair and I looked at videos and paid for voice videos over the internet but to NO avail. The voice I had when recorded just was not right.

So I desperatly searched for a live via skype voice tutor. This also took time and I did speak with Andrea James but she was in the USA and I needed one in my time zone. So, I finally had a referral for a person in Australia and OMG what a huge difference to have a person work with you and explan how the voice resonance works with the pitch etc. This was a referral from another voice coach who was fully booed. Today, I am ever so pleased with my voice and I have taken 8 sessions once every 3 weeks and I practice at home, plus she arranged buddies that I chat with and have since become great friends with them. I use Voice Analyst and I have two female voices - one in the 190 pitch range and the other in the 220. I have learnt to use the resonance in my head and to speak from the from of my mouth. There were so many tricks to keep the voice from craoking and now I never croak, Plus now I'm working on laughs, coughs listening to phrases that females speak. I must admit that I was ever so lucky to find her. My voice sounds soooo good recorded now.

My voice has come along very well. I am self-trained.

What worked for me was changing where I project my voice from. In my girl voice I can feel the air higher up my windpipe. In my boy voice the sensation is much lower, down in my chest.

Once I got a sense of where to *feel* my girl voice, things got much easier.

I still slip into my boy voice at work sometimes. Usually when something serious comes up :~D But I am relaxed at work because they all knew the old-me, and it is a safe place.

Voice does help so much with the transition. Physically I am only half-way there, but with the right voice, people have no difficulty addressing and responding to me as a girl. Of course they can see I am trans, but they can also see there truly is a non-male inside ...
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This is about 5 months ago, I have since improved further ->

Quote from: Skeptoid on June 12, 2015, 01:01:06 AM
Have you tried Finding Your Female Voice? It's pretty different from any of the youtube videos I have found.

I've been using this in the free text only format in addition to a few youtube videos I found that showed alternate ways to find that magic spot. My voice is nowhere near perfect, but I can tell it's getting there. Hope I get it right by the end of the year or I'll be transitioning without it.

I needed the alternate ways because almost all of them get you to the magic spot by finding where your voice cracks and as a lifelong singer, I don't have a spot where my voice cracks unless I go too far up into falsetto.

Right now I can get the resonance or I can get the pitch, but not both at the same time and I've been working on it for about 3 months, although not on a daily basis. I've also found that it's a necessity to have others critique my voice because I still hear my original voice in there even when the resonance is right.

Quote from: Emileeeee on June 12, 2015, 08:26:38 AM
Right now I can get the resonance or I can get the pitch, but not both at the same time and I've been working on it for about 3 months, although not on a daily basis. I've also found that it's a necessity to have others critique my voice because I still hear my original voice in there even when the resonance is right.

This is my problem. No matter what I do--no matter how high the pitch goes, no matter how I try to control air flow, no matter how I try to modify my larynx position, I hear my old voice in there. It's driving me crazy. I feel like I have tried everything but it is as though I cannot stop sounding like a male in my recordings. There's something that also just persistently sounds fake and cartoonish about my voice recordings.

Quote from: SarahBoo on June 12, 2015, 04:56:39 AM
My voice has come along very well. I am self-trained.

What worked for me was changing where I project my voice from. In my girl voice I can feel the air higher up my windpipe. In my boy voice the sensation is much lower, down in my chest.

Once I got a sense of where to *feel* my girl voice, things got much easier.

This is about 5 months ago, I have since improved further ->

You sound amazing! Could you explain a bit more what you mean by 'feeling' the air in your windpipe? Sorry, I'm not sure I understand it. I'm struggling because even when I raise my pitch and speak from my head and even if I try to push back my larynx, I hear a voice that sounds, to my mind in recordings, like a highly strange male voice. I just don't know what I'm doing wrong and am worried that there may be something wrong with my voice, something I cannot escape from. I hope not.

Well I posted a recording from my broadcasting days here which I hoped might provide some encouragement. It was just my natural speaking voice, and as you would hear I'm far from being all girly and high pitched, but I'm gendered as female by listeners so... go figure.

EDIT - link removed to preserve my anonymity, as the discussion has now moved on, but if anyone wants to hear it just PM me and I'll happily send you it.

I'm trying to put it into words again Gabrielle, but it's surprisingly difficult!

I think I will make a new video later on where you can see my face, and try to break it down.

Hi Gabrielle.

My recommendation in a nutshell - provided I was stuck at some point, I'd seek help of a therapist/professional. In the meantime, would keep trying different things or push things that seemed to work towards progress.

I myself am a learner too atm. Not a regular one [just like yourself], and most of the time my attempts sux. Notably, once I wanted to try and impress a friend, and have recorded a couple of short sentences. Got it all right. Wow. Obviously I can do it, but I've got to learn how. I had other successful moments since then -- in a sea of failures.

Perhaps you can do it too, but the voice needs to be found and mastered.