The GOP was kicked out of the youth and Hollywood demographics. They were kicked out of the minority vote. And with LGBT voters, they might as well be kicked from that too. I cannot accept what is happening. People want to stick to traditional principles instead. I don't freaking care. I want the GOP to be able to win society's hearts and minds again. What is your opinion? They have been kicked out of pretty much everywhere. It's not like the dems have to suffer this hard.

I don't participate in the political process, so I don't take sides. It's set up that you try to make people like you and vote for you. You earn your way in and out of popularity. That's all that's going on in my opinion.

Hugs, Devlyn

Mostly because they are failing to progress with the rest of society. Seems like they just keep pushing themselves further into the dark ages with their way of thinking. A huge mistake as our society is growing and becoming much more diverse.

And "mistake" is the right word. I was never endorsing the GOPs more dark-aged views, I was just wondering if they'll ever progress more with society.

Quote from: redhot1 on June 11, 2015, 08:40:37 PM
And "mistake" is the right word. I was never endorsing the GOPs more dark-aged views, I was just wondering if they'll ever progress more with society.

I don't know. The repubs in the past weren't this bad. I think there is a big push back from many religious groups/people due to the advances in equality where lgbt are concerned and the repubs are just glomming onto that base thinking it will get them somewhere. But its really a shrinking base as more and more people are finding that their own loved ones that happen to be lgbt aren't so bad and so are relaxing their views on it.

And it's frustrating as heck, but the evangelicals just drag the party down. 

I do think part of the problem at the Presidential level at least is the Iowa/New Hampshire springboard to get momentum for about the South Carolina stage of the primaries to vault to "Super Tuesday" prominence.  Every candidate promises to support ethanol and then tries to get the "social conservative" vote by promising to oppose gay rights, abortion, and possibly fire.  Remember, the GOP Presidential candidate pecking order in Iowa is done by the same self-righteous twits who actually celebrated Hurricane Katrina smiting the evil New Orleans...until they realized their corn couldn't ship through the disaster area.  Rotating early primaries so the momentum came from, say, Oregon and Massachusetts might mitigate that.  At the least, it would help kill ethanol which is it's own problem.  Otherwise, I think the party is following a general election model the Democrats have also used of ignoring the middle and really trying to fire up the base. 

Honestly, I don't truly expect them to actually solve their deal-breakers any more than I expect the Democrats to solve their own deal-breakers.  After all, the Democrats are probably about to go into their third consecutive Presidential election with a hopelessly unqualified novelty candidate.  Is that really a viable alternative or just banking on people refusing to vote Republican?  Without a serious challenge to their moral and intellectual shortcomings--which the Democrats can't even pretend to make--there's no incentive for the GOP to even try to grow up.       

The GOP platform of 1956:

1. Provide federal assistance to low-income communities;
2. Protect Social Security;
3. Provide asylum for refugees;
4. Extend minimum wage;
5. Improve unemployment benefit system so it covers more people;
6. Strengthen labor laws so workers can more easily join a union;
7. Assure equal pay for equal work regardless of sex.

I was fine with that and would have happily voted for Eisenhower.

( disclaimer: this is my personal opinion and does not reflect on any one else) because the Republicans are aliens invading the populace for the purpose of creating social instability within the world community , so when the invasion comes the world will embrace the alien rulers for their technology and promise to bring all a better life or as an old Twilight Zone episode broadcast portrayed the aliens as human benefactors whose only purpose was to show how to properly serve humans, unfortunately it turned out to be a cook book.

The short version is that they have a lot of anti science, bigoted loons voting Republican, especially in the primaries. If they could field more socially Neutral/Liberal candidates and git rid of the crazy members of the GOP (somehow), then they would be a lot more competitive.

Even if you exclude the tea party crowd, I can't personally trust them to have the interests of anyone but one percenter's at heart anymore and I don't ever expect to qualify. I used to be good with that, but the one percent seem to have thrown enlightened self interest and anything but mayfly economic planning out the window. Now it seems to be grab everything and don't worry about how it affects your business and the Country down the road. Henry Ford, (expletive deleted) that he was, had one thing right. He payed his workers well enough that they could buy the products they built. Contented workers make you more money in the long run. Now they don't seem to care about that.

Mostly, because they cater to evangelicals.  Ever since they've been doing that, they've been losing popularity.  They sacrificed the appeal to moderates to appeal to religious people.  This hurt them since they already appealed to a lot of Christians, anyway.

Quote from: Dee Marshall on June 12, 2015, 08:13:23 PM
Even if you exclude the tea party crowd, I can't personally trust them to have the interests of anyone but one percenter's at heart anymore and I don't ever expect to qualify. I used to be good with that, but the one percent seem to have thrown enlightened self interest and anything but mayfly economic planning out the window. Now it seems to be grab everything and don't worry about how it affects your business and the Country down the road. Henry Ford, (expletive deleted) that he was, had one thing right. He payed his workers well enough that they could buy the products they built. Contented workers make you more money in the long run. Now they don't seem to care about that.

I do have to point out the the majority of one percenters are from Hollywood. I'm libertarian myself. But I would argue that the GOP focus is more on the 50 percenters. And, well, that's where the businesses that hire people come from. This is a help to the other 50 percent who need jobs.

I disagree with the idea that the GOP was kicked out of those arenas.  It seems to me that they turned away from the minority communities and became downright hostile to LGBT interests.  I don't know if the Dems are doing things right, either, but at least they've been welcoming.

The turnaround in the GOP stemmed from the Moral Majority pushing the GOP further right socially in the late 70s. By the time Reagan won, the Christian Right was firmly cemented.  Add in Reagan's trickle down economic theory and that moved the GOP further right economically.  That's a simplified version, I know, but it explains why they moved so far right. 

Then the Tea Party came, and ooh boy!

Sent from my SM-G900T using Tapatalk

Quote from: ChiGirl on June 13, 2015, 10:38:56 AM
I disagree with the idea that the GOP was kicked out of those arenas.  It seems to me that they turned away from the minority communities and became downright hostile to LGBT interests.  I don't know if the Dems are doing things right, either, but at least they've been welcoming.

The turnaround in the GOP stemmed from the Moral Majority pushing the GOP further right socially in the late 70s. By the time Reagan won, the Christian Right was firmly cemented.  Add in Reagan's trickle down economic theory and that moved the GOP further right economically.  That's a simplified version, I know, but it explains why they moved so far right. 

This is kind of the way I see it too ChiGirl.

The GOP is exclusive, not inclusive - if you don't fit into their very narrow ideal demographic you don't get a seat at the table - I'd even say that you are driven away from it.

Unfortunately for the GOP demographics are working against them and they have missed or ignored that change - America's population is rapidly changing as more people immigrate and as young people start voting and reject the GOP's bigotry - thus, fewer and fewer people fit into that narrow ideal demographic. Of the ones that do many of them are older citizens and those are decreasing by natural attrition.

To regain relevance the GOP needs to move away from their radical, exclusionary positions and needs to find some fresh candidates with original ideas about how to solve the very real issues that America faces - high unemployment, homelessness, the solvency of Social Security, the furtiveness of today's government where everything is done in secret - come to my mind. They need to quit focusing on side issues that are irrelevant to people facing real issues, and they need to quit promoting laws that are mean spirited/harmful to minority groups such as the LGBT population.

The GOP will become relevant again only when what they stand for is in alignment with what the population wants.

I think there's a bit of "social engineering" going on.

The way that is done, is "the engineers" (whoever/whatever they are) define the "socially acceptable" limits the public can go, creating the appearance of freedom of choice. Over the course of some years (ten to twentyish) one of the borders is moved in the direction they desire (in the current case, more to the Left), and almost concurrently the other side loses territory associated with that side...after a few years, what was known as "normal and socially acceptable" behavior is now defined as oafish and rude (LGBT rights, as an example).

And after the dust settles on these minor (or sometimes major) movements, the public (most of whom don't actually think, they feel) again is free to choose between the new social limits.

The Republicans haven't figured this out yet, and are trying to hold onto their territory which has already been lost.

The Democrats believe they are oh so wise, when they (like the Republicans, Libertarians, and the Tea Party) are just stooges of the Social Engineers.

imho

If not for social conservatism, the Republican party would probably be much more likable by the public, especially the young public. As social values and cultural norms continue shifting, they hold onto many of the same values they held at least a couple decades ago. Gotta give them credit for sticking to their guns(no pun intended), but they're fighting a losing battle socially and culturally.

Really it seems the entire mainstream political system in the U.S is skewed towards the right. Many mainstream Republicans are decently far right on the political spectrum, while many mainstream Democrats seem to be center-left. The far right seems to be much more represented than the far left in our government. At least, that's how it seems to be me. I could be wrong here, but it's what I've noticed.

That's been so for quite a while, Terra13. Starting after world war II we saw ourselves as the counterbalance to the CCCP, defending freedom and democracy alone. Black and white thinking and the fact that they really were out to get us makes it hard, even today, for many people to take a communist or even a socialist solution seriously.

I decided long ago that any political system will do if the people in charge are honest, intelligent, and have the good of the people at heart. Those kinds of people have been rather rare, traditionally, although it seems to be getting better.

Quote from: Marlee on June 13, 2015, 09:35:47 AM
I'm libertarian myself.

Yay! *one person nervously clapping from the back of the room and then getting embarrassed and looking at his phone*

This is entirely the GOP's fault. Politics is this big game of chess and they've just played it badly. I think it's often individual politicians pandering to one special interest group or another at a point in time when it serves them at the risk of alienating them against a larger populace later. Every politician needs donors for money and foot soldiers. The foot soldiers are the people who are SO EXCITED by that politician that they will bust their asses like walking around to hang door-hangers or cold-calling people to talk about their candidate. To get people excited you have to push some kind of hot-button issues. With the GOP, the easiest target has been evangelicals on issues like abortion and gay marriage. The problem is they shoot themselves in the foot when it comes time to win the general election because those issues alienate them from more and more people as times change.

Their donors and foot soldiers are actually dying off. Social conservatives are rapidly becoming a minority. If you look at young people, they are becoming more socially liberal across the board. Young Republicans are starting to sound a lot more libertarian in their philosophies and aren't buying into the anti-LGBT stuff, just as a for instance. They don't want governments to interfere in people's personal lives.

I feel like for the party to change significantly, some folks will have to step up and replace all those evangelical donors and foot soldiers, but they will have to first demand that the politicians they support drop the social conservative agendas. If the politicians can get both types of foot soldiers, they will, and nothing will change. You also need people who are willing to register Republican and vote in Republican primaries because a lot of the platforms of politicians require them to pander to certain types in order to win their primaries and then try to veer back toward central views in order to win the general election. They're doing this weird dance and it's why the system practically forces all of them to be so... full of... poo.

Quote from: Dee Marshall on June 23, 2015, 09:18:53 AM
That's been so for quite a while, Terra13. Starting after world war II we saw ourselves as the counterbalance to the CCCP, defending freedom and democracy alone. Black and white thinking and the fact that they really were out to get us makes it hard, even today, for many people to take a communist or even a socialist solution seriously.

I decided long ago that any political system will do if the people in charge are honest, intelligent, and have the good of the people at heart. Those kinds of people have been rather rare, traditionally, although it seems to be getting better.

If I'm not mistaken we were also out to get them, weren't we? To me, both sides in the Cold War seem to have been kind of silly.
But I'd agree that that's likely a big part of the reason why American politics are skewed towards the right. The far left was considered enemy #1 for a long time, and that's not something that's easy to quickly reverse.

You're probably right about any political system working if done by good people, too. Unfortunately power attracts those who desire power, and those people don't always value the greater good. It certainly seems to have been gradually getting better,  though, at least in the U.S. But there's still a long way to go.

Quote from: Terra13 on June 23, 2015, 10:21:28 AM
If I'm not mistaken we were also out to get them, weren't we? To me, both sides in the Cold War seem to have been kind of silly.
But I'd agree that that's likely a big part of the reason why American politics are skewed towards the right. The far left was considered enemy #1 for a long time, and that's not something that's easy to quickly reverse.

I agree, but I can only talk about the historical motives of the US and that not as well as I might like.

Quote from: Terra13 on June 23, 2015, 10:21:28 AM
You're probably right about any political system working if done by good people, too. Unfortunately power attracts those who desire power, and those people don't always value the greater good. It certainly seems to have been gradually getting better,  though, at least in the U.S. But there's still a long way to go.

That is entirely the problem. I've searched and searched for a political structure, not a philosophy, that reduces the chance of the wrong people being in charge. I thought for a while that we had it in the US, but the last 40 years have proved me wrong.