Ok folks, this is one of those times I don't quite have the words, so bear with me.

What do you think are the psychological effects of growing up in the opposite gender body?
As opposed to growing up cisgendered?

And let's just keep it real here. We are the same as cisgendered men and women and yet not...
In the sense we have experienced things they have not.

So what do you think growing up in the opposite gender body and the opposite gender role does to the psyche?

OPTIMISTS NEED NOT REPLY

Well, we feel less secure in general, probably, as we have to justify ourselves on a daily basis since who we are doesn't just match our genitals. A cisgendered person never has to explain why he/she feels male/female.

Effects included stress, isolation, feeling different from everyone else, misunderstood, traumatic... It wasn't fun at all growing up gender variant.

y2g

Psychological confusion, depression, inverted gender roles; also the need to place the other gender (in my case it was girls and women because I was a boy/guy) on a pedestal because you are close to that which you consider your ideal in this life; psychological confusion, keeping all to myself.

Wing Walker

Hi, Nero,

I have missed your 'deep question' posts when I have dropped in lately. Nice to see another.

First, pretty much all of the above. I particularly liked the need to place the other gender (in my case it was girls and women because I was a boy/guy) on a pedestal because you are close to that which you consider your ideal in this life.... That was an especially good, and true, one, Wing Walker.

I always found the shame and the guilt over the difference between who I am and who others thought I was was maybe the most excruciating part. That and the sneaking, or sometimes really open and intense, feeling that I was hiding myself in a lie and was a coward to do so. *Whew* But, I was also very well aware that to present just the people I loved and who I felt deeply loved me with who I was proved a couple of times to be dangerous for my physical and emotional well-being. I was intensely afraid to present others with that.

Actually, I know things appear to be changing, and not necessarily with the speed of glaciation, and many younger TSes are blessed with supportive and understanding parents, ... actually, I wouldn't wish transsexuality on people I otherwise despise. It often seemed too harsh of a life. Especially regarding MTF life.

There was no one. I think a major boon for FTMs is that they often have spent a great deal of time in and are seen and respected as a valuable part of the lesbian community. Not everyone is like that, I know, but I think that acceptance among lesbians for men is greater than acceptance of gays for women.

Of course, the reverse is definitely true as well. I think many MTFs would rather die than be among gay males. But, I think still that just being part of some community is a big advantage for some TSes today. An advantage that many of us didn't have not so very long ago.

Nichole 

Hmmmm, I think two soundtracks played endlessly in my head, smashing everything like an elephant in a china shop:

1) OMG, can anyone tell? Is it showing? Am I doing something to give it away?
Total paranoia and self-consciousness that people could tell I was insane and shameful, that some word, gesture, movement would give me away. I became quite the empath because of it, since I spent a lifetime trying to read people's thoughts to see if they were figuring me out. I'd notice every glance, hear every whisper. My self-consciousness was paralyzing, since NO MOVE was the only safe move.

2) I don't deserve...
Fill in the blank with anything, it didn't matter. I was a deceitful, sick, insane and shameful person and didn't belong in "normal" society, so I didn't deserve any of it's membership perks either. I'd been dropped into a club I didn't belong in, didn't deserve anything good that happened to me, and sooner or later people were going to figure me out and throw me out into the cold. Having a mother who's routine scolding for everything from spilt milk to poor grades was, "You should be ashamed of yourself" really didn't help much either. Repeat #1.

~Kate~

I believe it does tremendous damage.  I have been on anti-anxiety drugs and anti-depressants since I was very young, ten or eleven and somehow my body (or perhaps my mind) has gotten used to these medications, for I have developed a chemical imbalance.  If I stop my meds, I'm OK for a month or so and then sink into depression once again.

I mean, if you think about it, nowadays there's nothing (no reason whatsoever) for me to be depressed.  I'm post-op, living a life that finally makes sense; I lead a very successful life (career wise), and love has touched my heart lately  , but even so, if I discontinue my meds, depression will become "my friend" again.  About a year ago, I underwent a few tests and they found out that I have a chemical imbalance (or at least that's the only answer they could come up with), so I must be on medication for life.  What can I say?  life is never perfect! 

tink

Hmmm interesting question Nero

I'll follow the rest of the trend here:
Isolation
Social Awkwardness
Deep Depression
Despair
Envy
Hate
Jealously
Anxiety
Paranoia

Hold that in all your life and I think anyone would go crazy.

Do I need to elaborate on any or do most people understand?

Quote from: Tink on November 26, 2007, 07:05:20 PM

but even so, if I discontinue my meds, depression will become "my friend" again.  About a year ago, I underwent a few tests and they found out that I have a chemical imbalance (or at least that's the only answer they could come up with), so I must be on medication for life.  What can I say?  life is never perfect! 

tink

Tink,

Can I ask What type of tests did they do?

Alice

Well, I underwent a computerized tomography (CT scan of the brain) along with dopamine and serotonin tests while I was on my meds and six weeks after I discontinued them (on purpose for such tests) and basically I was "observed" by my psychiatrist and this is the diagnosis she gave me.

tink

Quote from: redfish on November 26, 2007, 07:21:02 PM
I think you get broken as a person

Now I can relate to that. I broke big time and have been seing my doctors ever since

Quote from: shanetastic on November 26, 2007, 07:10:22 PM
Hmmm interesting question Nero

I'll follow the rest of the trend here:
Isolation
Social Awkwardness
Deep Depression
Despair
Envy
Hate
Jealously
Anxiety
Paranoia

Hold that in all your life and I think anyone would go crazy.

Do I need to elaborate on any or do most people understand?

I have had many of those things as a broken person. People often avoid me since as they can not relate to my experience.

Alice

Oh where to start....the effects are far reaching.

It has made me confused.  I still don't know who I really am, I know I exist and that I get through life, but that's about it.  It really hit me a couple weeks ago when someone at work asked me what I like to do for fun, and I couldn't really come up with an answer, so I quickly made one up and found a reason to walk away.

It has made me awkward.  I don't feel like anyone understands me, and I hardly expect them to when I barely understand myself.  I feel like I can relate to other's feelings, but not experiences, even if I should be able to.

It makes me embarrassed for existing.  I'm ashamed of being something I'm not, and depressed by continuing to not be me.  I constantly fear rejection, and never expect to be accepted.  As a result, there was a period in my life where I just stopped trying to do anything, because trying meant possibly failing or being rejected.  I lost my job, I lost my friends, and I nearly lost my family.

It made me feel worthless and inept.  Though I'm doing better with this now, until recently I've felt like I could never do anything right and never deserved to have or do anything.  I would beat myself up mentally and physically over any imperfection or mistake.

I say I've never really been suicidal, but that is only part true.  I didn't exactly want to end my life, but I did want to just stop living.  I was afraid if I tried to kill myself that I wouldn't succeed, and living through that would be even more painful.  I don't mean to be completely pathetic, but during adolescence, fear of screwing up my own death is mostly what kept me alive.

It has made me lonely.  The few friends I do have only know the fake me, the real me constantly feels alone.

It has made me repress most of my childhood memories, and they have only recently been coming back.  Memories of my own self expression, and of the consequences.  I would still rather not remember the consequences.

The more I think about my problems, the more I'm able to tie them back to being forced to not truly be myself.  Someday I'll get all of this behind me, looking forward to that keeps me going.

Re: What does growing up in the opposite gender body do to the psyche?

it pulverizes it to almost nothingness.

  For me there is an effect of having borderline dual personality. I had to *blend* so completely that I very nearly created another personality in myself. There are a lot of things that I have done in my life that were not even close to my personality and were usually far beyond the norm for my supposed gender. A sort of over compensation if you will. Because of this I am fighting to let go of desires, feelings and reactions that were never mine to start with. They all belonged to "him".

it squishes it into a space smaller than it can possibly fit, with the edges all raw, inflamed, and bleeding. from this cramped space, you look out at the world, and and you hate it, and you hate yourself in it, so that you have a conundrum: which do you hate more? the world, or yourself? it is this momentary confusion that saves you, because, Look: everyone is confused! especially the ones who don't think they're confused. you spin around twenty times and finally you say i can't do this anymore, whatever happens, come what may, i'm going to be myself. then you look around, and, well, the world is still full of hate! but you don't hate yourself anymore. now you find that it's really no more effort, really, to be your own friend rather than your own worst enemy. you take a breath, and you think, this living thing might not be so bad, after all.   

Quote from: Kate on November 26, 2007, 06:44:26 PM
Hmmmm, I think two soundtracks played endlessly in my head, smashing everything like an elephant in a china shop:

1) OMG, can anyone tell? Is it showing? Am I doing something to give it away?
Total paranoia and self-consciousness that people could tell I was insane and shameful, that some word, gesture, movement would give me away. I became quite the empath because of it, since I spent a lifetime trying to read people's thoughts to see if they were figuring me out. I'd notice every glance, hear every whisper. My self-consciousness was paralyzing, since NO MOVE was the only safe move.


~Kate~

  I relate more to Kate's 1st soundtrack than to her second.  Add to that the joy of loneliness, depression, and severe alienation, and you have entered into hell.
 
  I know this all builds or breaks a persons character, however, as to the psyche itself, I'm not sure.  From my own experience, I believe the damage is reversible, and remember, my experience includes starting my life witnessing a terrible crime. i can't say that I am 100 percent well.  There may be issues that are not uncovered until some future experience reveals them for me.

  I'm pretty sure the answer really depends upon the individual.  Some people will suffer and recover.  Some people will stay broken.  I need to believe that the majority will heal.


I'm not sure this is what you are looking for, but I hope it's on topic.


Rebis

it makes you hate yourself more than anyone can imagine.
it makes you a risk taker
it makes you drink

I can relate to so much that has been said.

For me, I felt so foreign and constantly berrated myself for not being like all the other girls. I knew I wasn't one of them, and yet I obviously was. I really tried for a long time to be normal. I studied other girls trying to figure out what to do. I just wanted to be normal so everyone wouldn't hate me so much.

I can relate to both of Kate's answer's, especially the parts which I paraphrase as:

Paralysis and
Worthlessness.

Envy is an interesting one. Every day, we are virtually pickled with ads and images targeted to women. Rather than filter these as background noise, these messages get amplified and translated into unease, a kind of envy and back to worthlessness.


Great thread!

CeeCee

Quote from: Nero on November 26, 2007, 11:42:41 PM
I can relate to so much that has been said.

For me, I felt so foreign and constantly berrated myself for not being like all the other girls. I knew I wasn't one of them, and yet I obviously was. I really tried for a long time to be normal. I studied other girls trying to figure out what to do. I just wanted to be normal so everyone wouldn't hate me so much.

The same goes for boys, Nero.  Be different and be ostracized at best.  No matter what I did, I was not a baseball card collector.  I never played Little League baseball.  I didn't play sandlot football.  I could not name the roster of the 1960 New York Yankees.  I caught hell.  Study their behaviour as I did, I could not follow their lead.  It was not in me.

Little girls have no place for little boys of any kind.

Wing Walker