Hello everyone!

I hope that you all has a Happy & safe Thanksgiving Holiday and I hope you are having as fun as I am trying to buy gifts for everyone on your Santa List!    'Tis the season!!!

Well I would like your opinions on my situation.  As transgendered individulas we face certain issues that no one but eachother can understand and truly make sense of and I have no one on one contact with any transexuals in my area so I would LOVE your help.

I just turned 23 years old and have been on hormones for about 3 1/2 months (3 meds total - oral estrogen, Avodart and an injectable that I won't mention following board rules - but basically it CHEMICALLY castrates you within 4-5 injections...I get one a month).  it is what is classified as a "GnRH agonist".  So my hormone regimen is pretty similar to everyone elses that I have read about.  The injection I get is pretty much 90% equivalent to a getting castarated physically my endo doc. explained.

I began seeing signs of Male Pattern Baldness @ 21 years old (thinning in temples).  I began Propecia - my derm at the time told me it was up to me but not critical and knowing I was transgendered and eventually going to be on HRT I wanted to take Propecia to help halt hair loss until I began HRT plus my MOTHER's father began balding in his early 20's.
I took it for nearly 1 & 1/2 years.  I stilled thinned a good bit but not really to the unbiased human eye.  No one but who I told, could tell. 

As I stated above I began HRT in September of this year.  I am about to begin my 4th month of HRT and everything is going well EXCEPT ONE THING!  And guess what it is??? MY HAIR!!!!!! Like so many of you this is a CRUCIAL piece of my transition begin that it aids in passing, I'm still young, AND I went to hair school.  I have always been kind of known for my hair because hair and hairdressing is one on my main loves.  So the fact that its STILL thinning is causing me MUCH anxiety.  And now the thinning is not just at the temples, but a little on top and at the crown of my head.

I have read that there is supposedly this intial phase of shedding that one can experience on Avodart that can last up to 6 months but its been 3 months and I am VERY afraid that if continues shedding/falling out at this rate I am going to have MAJOR problems in the future.  It just BAFFLES me how I am still loosing hair when in my FIRST month's check up my doctor showed me that my testosterone levels had drastically dropped & my estrogen levels were up.  I am getting injected with a medicine that basically cuts of the testicles from the pituitary gland, taking Avodart which asborbs the little bit of testorterone that does find its way in my body & DHT, and replacing it with Estrogen.  It just makes no sense on paper how I could still be loosing and not gaining any hair.   I know I should wait and give it time but you all probably understand my dilemma.  The only other thing I have thought of doing is adding Rogaine to the mix but I'm extrememly hesitant to start another regimen I must continue the rest of my life & if I were to begin it now I would never know down the road whether it was the Rogaine or the HRT that was responsible for the halting of baldness or regrowth.

SO with ALL of that said I would like your opinions on what I should do.  I would also MUCh appreciate any of your stories on stopping hair loss and REGROWTH.

I appreciate it more than you'll ever know!!!!
XOXO

Love,
Miss ANXIETY!!!!!!! 

I am not an endocrinologist and maybe you need to see yours.

DHT is made someplace in your body.  I refuse to guess where, but apparently the testicles seem to be non-functional here.

I cannot comment any further and still make any sense.l  Find the source of the DHT and you might have your answer.

Good luck!

Wing Walker

DHT comes from testosterone to my knowledge

Anyone else have any opinions or experiences?

Thank you all in advancement!

XOXO

The adrenal gland also makes testosterone.

Look around in your body, and you'll find testosterone all over the damned place.  You are worried about having DHT in your hair follicles, as am I.  Folks use rogaine in their regimen, as do I, but it only works with a suitable antiandrogen, as testosterone is metabolized by 5a-reductase, an enzyme.  Your hair follicles have this enzyme, then break down the testosterone, which becomes DHT, which causes secondary male characteristics, such as mpb.  So, you need something to inhibit the alpha-reductase in your body, not just the testosterone.  Saw palmetto extract inhibits both isomers of 5-alpha-reductase.   Antiandrogens only inhibit one isomer of a-reductase.  Soooo.....maybe you should mix saw palmetto extract in your rogaine. 
Hey, wait!  Maybe I should too.......


Bev

Rogaine does not work on everybody.
Hair regrowth shows up in weird ways.  I would not worry about the shedding so much.  Keep taking the Dutasteride (Avodart).  The real results really show up in strange ways and the GnBh blocker should work as well.  So don't worry, be patient, this is a LONGTERM process. 

EDIT:  To the poster above the most effective blocker of BOTH forms of 5-alpha-reductase (DHT) is dutasteride.  It blocks 90%+ over after about six months, Saw Palmetto does not even come close, in fact NOTHING does with regards to blocking this androgen.  On top the the GnBH blocker and the avodart, it will work, but the process is ugly. 

Beverly, next time you post advice to somebody I highly suggest you are more educated on what is being talked about.  You really have shown me that you really do not know much about the things discussed here.  To the original poster, ignore Beverly.  Saw Palmetto is not even close to as effective as dutasteride, which is an extremely powerful anti-androgen that blocks both forms of 5-alpha-reductase, she does not know the difference between proprecia (That only blocks one) and dutasteride (that blocks both, and blocks it to near elimination). 

One thing that people don't often talk about as DHT conversion inhibitor is bio identical progesterone (none of progestins have this effct). Its close to 100%, but the problem with progesterone as a DHT inhibitor is that it has a short half life, its hard to know how much you've really absorbed. So, while very good in theory, its too aleatory except if you take big split doses to be used in this way. This is another reason pregnant women get such nice hair. Total DHT blockage + massive estrogen doses prolonging the folicles active phase which means that their hair gets much thicker (hair that should fall off to go dormant stays on the head on thus hair density increases during the pregnancy).

Dustasteride's very good at blocking DHT, but if you want almost no DHT to reach your hair, use an anti-androgen that blocks gonad production and blocks the testosterone receptors (like spiro). Then, you'll get get 1% or less of the DHT to the hair folicle you'd get without any treatment.

If you hair still falls off with that, they there is nothing that can be done! At least the loss is not androgen related. Some nutritional deficiencies are metabolic diseases that impact those nutriends cause hair loss. Off course, there are some very powerfull cancer fighting chemicals that sent hair straight into dormancy, same with radiotherapy. But, that's usually temporary.

So Keira....

Do you suggest I speak to my doctor about switching from Avodart (dutasteride) to Spiro?

And do you suggest looking into adding proestrogens to the mix.

I already feel like I take alot: Estrogen, Avodart and a monthly GnBH blocker injection.  Adding spiro or proestrogens to that would be too much right? OR do you suggest I trade out some?

I know a doc's opinion is the ultimate for a decision but I'd just like your opinion from your knowledge/experience???

or anyone else for that matter?...............

I must admit, I don't use saw palmetto, but a prescribed antiandrogen, and get good results with it and the rogaine.  Yes, I admit it... I don't use saw palmetto.  I also admit to wondering about almost everything in the world and beyond.

Amy......honestly, get a sense of humor.  I don't give chemical advice....I leave that to the physicians of the world.  A high horse you have there my dear   

Bev

Quote from: mclova84 on November 29, 2007, 09:57:43 PM
So Keira....

Do you suggest I speak to my doctor about switching from Avodart (dutasteride) to Spiro?

And do you suggest looking into adding proestrogens to the mix.

I already feel like I take alot: Estrogen, Avodart and a monthly GnBH blocker injection.  Adding spiro or proestrogens to that would be too much right? OR do you suggest I trade out some?

I know a doc's opinion is the ultimate for a decision but I'd just like your opinion from your knowledge/experience???

or anyone else for that matter?...............

Do not switch off of Avodart to spiro.  No, No, No.

I am on both.  Why? Because Avodart specifically targets DHT, and Spiro specifically targets T and androgen receptors.  Guess what the GnBH injections do the same thing as spiro but better.   

Your regiment sounds fine as is.  GnBH blockers do the same thing as spiro, just differently. 
If anything that could be added in (nothing really should be taken out really) its progesterone, and taking all you are on that may not be necessary.  You are fine as is and should not worry.  This takes awhile, and as I stated earlier, its an ugly process that takes months, if not a coulple of years to sort itself out.

Quote from: Amy T. on November 30, 2007, 03:46:37 AM

Quote from: mclova84 on November 29, 2007, 09:57:43 PM
So Keira....

Do you suggest I speak to my doctor about switching from Avodart (dutasteride) to Spiro?

And do you suggest looking into adding proestrogens to the mix.

I already feel like I take alot: Estrogen, Avodart and a monthly GnBH blocker injection.  Adding spiro or proestrogens to that would be too much right? OR do you suggest I trade out some?

I know a doc's opinion is the ultimate for a decision but I'd just like your opinion from your knowledge/experience???

or anyone else for that matter?...............

Do not switch off of Avodart to spiro.  No, No, No.

I am on both.  Why? Because Avodart specifically targets DHT, and Spiro specifically targets T and androgen receptors.  Guess what the GnBH injections do the same thing as spiro but better.   

Your regiment sounds fine as is.  GnBH blockers do the same thing as spiro, just differently. 
If anything that could be added in (nothing really should be taken out really) its progesterone, and taking all you are on that may not be necessary.  You are fine as is and should not worry.  This takes awhile, and as I stated earlier, its an ugly process that takes months, if not a coulple of years to sort itself out.

Would Avodart be of any help to me Amy or Keira? I have a very slight receeding at the temples (about 2cm) which although wouldn't be termed as baldness, it's still not a rounded female hairline. I have tried things like finesteride and because it's a relatively small problem, I thought finesteride might help, but it didn't.  As you can see from my pics I have a lot of hair but it seems many of the drugs available don't address even the smallest of problems people might have..

No, I'm saying that dustasteride + spiro (or anything else that blocks production of T and  at the receptor) will produce the best result.
Sorry I wasn't clearer.

Quote from: Keira on November 30, 2007, 07:53:31 AM

No, I'm saying that dustasteride + spiro (or anything else that blocks production of T and  at the receptor) will produce the best result.
Sorry I wasn't clearer.

What is dustasteride? is that related to finesteride? also how come drugs can't deal with the smallest of problems?

QuoteWould Avodart be of any help to me Amy or Keira?

kim, avodart is like finesteride, although not quite the same drug. Both target DHT, but avodart is more potent. Lots of people try finesteride, and then switch to avodart later on, as finesteride only works for a limited period of time, 5 years.

if you want to know about hair issues, this is a great forum to find out about everything from drugs to transplants, albeit aimed at men.

http://www.hairlosshelp.com/forums/

Avodart is the BRAND NAME.

Dutasteride is the active ingredient.
I never use brand names because I never buy brand meds.
Dutas is one that's made in india.
I've also bought the new one from india in pill form
which is cheaper since you can split it.
The reason the pharmaceutical compagny put dutasteride in
gel caps is because they wanted to avoid this (not that the
meds need to be absorbed that way).

Quote from: fruity on November 30, 2007, 08:09:49 AM

QuoteWould Avodart be of any help to me Amy or Keira?

kim, avodart is like finesteride, although not quite the same drug. Both target DHT, but avodart is more potent. Lots of people try finesteride, and then switch to avodart later on, as finesteride only works for a limited period of time, 5 years.

if you want to know about hair issues, this is a great forum to find out about everything from drugs to transplants, albeit aimed at men.

http://www.hairlosshelp.com/forums/

Well, finesteride never worked on me and I probably took it for 5 years! All I had was a very tiny bit of an m shape at my forehead temples and it still didn't work on that little bit.  I'm very skeptical of all these drugs..

Also let's have a link aimed at women Fruity?

Berliegh, if they didn't work for that,
either the hair had fallen down too long ago
and the folicle was dead. That's especially
true in the frontal temple which is very very
sensible to DHT. Almost nobody regrows
anything in the front temple unless its been
very recently lost, the hair there is just to sensible.

You can doubt all you want, but there's hundreds
of studies on the link between DHT and hair loss
so this doubt is like doubting any medication's effect
that has been demonstrably showed to work.

Do you doubt aspirin's effectiveness too?

QuoteAlso let's have a link aimed at women Fruity?

in this case, searching through female hairloss sites is not relevant if you want to address this particular problem.

Genetic females experience an all over thinning of the hair, known as female pattern baldness, as opposed to genetic men who experience the 'm' shape pattern, known as male pattern baldness.

finasteride is not renowed for regrowth, although it can occur. its main function is to stop the rest of your hair falling out. As kiera says, It is proved without doubt to help with male pattern hairloss, but not hair regrowth. For that, there is no miracle cure, other than hair tranplantation as far as i know

Quote from: fruity on November 30, 2007, 10:15:02 AM

QuoteAlso let's have a link aimed at women Fruity?

in this case, searching through female hairloss sites is not relevant if you want to address this particular problem.

Genetic females experience an all over thinning of the hair, known as female pattern baldness, as opposed to genetic men who experience the 'm' shape pattern, known as male pattern baldness.

finasteride is not renowed for regrowth, although it can occur. its main function is to stop the rest of your hair falling out. As kiera says, It is proved without doubt to help with male pattern hairloss, but not hair regrowth. For that, there is no miracle cure, other than hair tranplantation as far as i know

It's not really a problem for me and is very minor but I do feel sorry for people with much serious problems..

The reason finesteride is not known for regrowth is that its most often used by men with substantial sensitivity to DHT. In those men, even a small amount of residual DHT will stop regrowth of miniaturized hair. Its also much easier to improve hair fullness than regrow hair. Once the hair is miniaturized, its harder to reverse DHT's impact.

I've seen plenty of people with less sensitivity and recent hairloss (say 20's) who have had tremendous improvement in their hair's fullness. The hairshaft nearly double in size and thus the hair looks much better.