Ok well I told you all Baker Beach could have been a problem and it turns out it was. I went to use the beach restrooms and I had to use #2 bad. You have to understand this is all you can use there except for porta poties further out. Anyways it was open but being cleaned. So I was told I had to use the porta poties. I told them I had to use #2 bad, the one guy just stood there while the older man with a fat mustache just used a broom and tapped the sign that said "closed"

HOWEVER!! not even 20 seconds later a woman in a tight jogging suit ran up (this was while I was turning to leave) and asked if they could use it. GUESS WHAT? He let her in no questions. Total discrimination. I was not dressed up and wearing cold weather gear, so im guessing he saw me as male.....and saw her as sexy and let her in. WHEN I ANOTHER HUMAN BEING was about to pop!!!

But when I think it through he has seen me before out there dressed up en femme. Whatever he thinks I am, what he did was wrong and i left a message with the head national forest park service, if they don't call I will try again.

I presume by the subject title that you didn't end up going to the toilet there. I would have watched the cleaners in disbelief aswell when they let the other lady through then I would have followed in after her. If they said anything, I would have replied "I don't care!" Discrimination is so ugly.

no i went but, had to go to the porta potty. The one guy who did not discriminate suggested to use the mens, but I was already on my way and technically closer to the porta potty. I had the intention of using the womens there for the first time anyways. But both were closed. I think he felt bad and kinda followed to tell me that.

Quote from: DanielleA on June 25, 2015, 04:29:23 PM
I presume by the subject title that you didn't end up going to the toilet there. I would have watched the cleaners in disbelief aswell when they let the other lady through then I would have followed in after her. If they said anything, I would have replied "I don't care!" Discrimination is so ugly.

I thought of that but then it could have escalated to something bad, like cops involved because i suspect the one larger fat fellow with the fat mustache would have blocked me with his body. He has been nothing but unpleasant before as a custodian.

Well, at least one of them tried to make amends. And if both womens toilets are closed then you gotta go were you can go. I see it all the time at the horse races. Because the women toilets have a huge lineup it makes sence to use the mens toilet if not in use.

Quote from: DanielleA on June 25, 2015, 04:45:01 PM
Well, at least one of them tried to make amends. And if both womens toilets are closed then you gotta go were you can go. I see it all the time at the horse races. Because the women toilets have a huge lineup it makes sence to use the mens toilet if not in use.

no kidding...when will toilets just be toilets.

The supervisor called me back from his cell. But didn't leave a call back number. However apologized profusely and said the employee well be counseled. The office lines were down so I have to wait till Monday to call back.

good going

Don't be afraid Sunshine. And do yourself a favor if you can and change your ID to female ASAP. This gives you defense in case the bathroom police decide to act stupid.

I am NOT EVER going to a men's restroom ever again. Who doesn't like that can stuff it. I am a woman and I'm not afraid to tell people that even when I don't "pass." My gender is female, I am not male, I am not a man. End of story. That's how you need to look at yourself. If you even doubt yourself just a little people will walk all over you.

Quote from: iKate on June 26, 2015, 02:36:37 PM
Who doesn't like that can stuff it. I am a woman and I'm not afraid to tell people that even when I don't "pass." My gender is female, I am not male, I am not a man. End of story.

I do appreciate where you are coming from, but the real world requires a bit more game-playing than that.

Not everybody is going to see us as our preferred gender. And they have a right to their views. So in those cases, we need to play by 'house rules', unless you want a big scene ... :~o

Quote from: Zoetrope on June 26, 2015, 06:09:56 PM
I do appreciate where you are coming from, but the real world requires a bit more game-playing than that.

Not everybody is going to see us as our preferred gender. And they have a right to their views. So in those cases, we need to play by 'house rules', unless you want a big scene ... :~o

I'm not sure where you're coming from... I've gone to the ladies in a mens t shirt and womens jeans already, nobody seemed to care. Nobody even stared. Granted it was home depot... I do "pass" and male fail though, so that helps. However if you're presenting female you will be more out of place in a men's restroom. I started going full time to the ladies when I started getting bounced out of the men's room when presenting male.

As for people not seeing us by our affirmed gender, that is their problem. Obviously we are not talking about a "trans woman" in a wife beater with a thick beard. But maybe someone who at least presents female. The ID is backup just in case.

You have to own it. Don't let people walk over you. Confidence is key.

Quote from: Zoetrope on June 26, 2015, 06:09:56 PM
I do appreciate where you are coming from, but the real world requires a bit more game-playing than that.

Not everybody is going to see us as our preferred gender. And they have a right to their views. So in those cases, we need to play by 'house rules', unless you want a big scene ... :~o

Not if those views are discriminatory. Can you imagine a Parks Service person saying, "Excuse me, these bathrooms are for whites only"?

He'd get that broom stuffed up his a$$ with that comment.

Quote from: Beth Andrea on June 26, 2015, 06:21:02 PM
Not if those views are discriminatory. Can you imagine a Parks Service person saying, "Excuse me, these bathrooms are for whites only"?

He'd get that broom stuffed up his a$$ with that comment.

It isn't discrimination if a place does not have a policy. This is the point I am trying to make. Not everyone agrees or is on the same page with trans issues yet.

So - in those places one needs to play the game. Or just not use the toilet there.

That's the other side of things. I would not go back to the Catholic uni that old-me attended for example, and try to open an LGBT society. It wouldn't be welcome.

Know when to respect others' boundaries.

Quote from: Zoetrope on June 26, 2015, 06:27:02 PM
It isn't discrimination if a place does not have a policy. This is the point I am trying to make. Not everyone agrees or is on the same page with trans issues yet.

So - in those places one needs to play the game. Or just not use the toilet there.

Agree or not, there are laws. If I recall correctly, Sunshine is in California. I am relatively certain that discrimination based on trans status is illegal in CA.

Besides, I challenge you to give me an objective standard of who looks female versus who looks male. You have obviously male and obviously female. Then you have in between. Cis or trans, doesn't matter. You have some trans who look more female than some cis and vice versa.

QuoteThat's the other side of things. I would not go back to the Catholic uni that old-me attended for example, and try to open an LGBT society. It wouldn't be welcome.

Know when to respect others' boundaries.

Two totally different things. One is a public beach. The other is a religious institution. Religious institutions are allowed by law to discriminate. The Government via public facilities is not.

Quote from: iKate on June 26, 2015, 06:31:11 PM
Agree or not, there are laws. If I recall correctly, Sunshine is in California. I am relatively certain that discrimination based on trans status is illegal in CA.

Besides, I challenge you to give me an objective standard of who looks female versus who looks male. You have obviously male and obviously female. Then you have in between. Cis or trans, doesn't matter. You have some trans who look more female than some cis and vice versa.

Well, people can pick birth sex with many more cues than appearance alone. We are hard wired to do so. So, I think that being trans is not an easy thing to hide.

As for CA, well I am speaking generally of course, not just about CA.

Quote from: Zoetrope on June 26, 2015, 06:35:41 PM
Well, people can pick birth sex with many more cues than appearance alone. We are hard wired to do so. So, I think that being trans is not an easy thing to hide.

As for CA, well I am speaking generally of course, not just about CA.

Well, if you feel comfortable going to the men's, then feel free. I don't and I won't.

Not my point!

Never mind. I use all toilets equally and with abandon.

Agreed. This is the right of self determination. Why will I give my power to someone to decide if I am a machine, a rabbit, male, trans or female.

This is not a game and I will never participate in one. Rules are not immutable and it starts with standing up for one's beliefs. If Martin Luther King, kept using their race as a means to just go with the majority because that's how other see them, then the white majority would continue to oppress and undermine the African American community.

Good on you Sunshine, don't let your trans status keep you from using the women's washroom coz you are woman. If anyone can't see it for you like some other people, then see it for yourself.

Love,

April

Quote from: iKate on June 26, 2015, 06:31:11 PM
Agree or not, there are laws. If I recall correctly, Sunshine is in California. I am relatively certain that discrimination based on trans status is illegal in CA.

Besides, I challenge you to give me an objective standard of who looks female versus who looks male. You have obviously male and obviously female. Then you have in between. Cis or trans, doesn't matter. You have some trans who look more female than some cis and vice versa.

Two totally different things. One is a public beach. The other is a religious institution. Religious institutions are allowed by law to discriminate. The Government via public facilities is not.

Not everybody is on board with transsexualism. So, it is unrealistic to expect them to be.

If we just charge in everywhere and announce that we are welcome, and to hell with what anyone thinks, that will not make us accepted or respected. On the contrary.

Trans people need to give what they hope to receive. If I want my boundaries respected, so must I respect another's.

Quote from: Zoetrope on June 26, 2015, 09:05:57 PM
Not everybody is on board with transsexualism. So, it is unrealistic to expect them to be.

If we just charge in everywhere and announce that we are welcome, and to hell with what anyone thinks, that will not make us accepted or respected. On the contrary.

Trans people need to give what they hope to receive. If I want my boundaries respected, so must I respect another's.

At the same time it is unrealistic to tell a trans woman that she has to use the men's bathroom. This is not an issue of preference. This can be a very real SAFETY issue.

As long as you make a reasonable effort to present yourself as a female you should be welcomed in female only facilities. That is really what it boils down to.

And yes, a big part of it is doing like you belong there. You have to assert yourself in life to get anywhere. Passing is confidence to a large degree.