The 'restroom' topic brought up a lot of strong opinions.

For those who don't believe restrooms should be segregated, why? Why should men (or anyone who isn't female) be permitted to use the Ladies?

Quote from: Nero on November 29, 2007, 06:45:29 PM
The 'restroom' topic brought up a lot of strong opinions.

For those who don't believe restrooms should be segregated, why? Why should men (or anyone who isn't female) be permitted to use the Ladies?

Restroom's should definitely be segregated and I'd feel very uncomfortable if they were not segregated. I don't want men coming into the ladies toilet..

Quote from: Nero on November 29, 2007, 06:45:29 PM
The 'restroom' topic brought up a lot of strong opinions.

For those who don't believe restrooms should be segregated, why? Why should men (or anyone who isn't female) be permitted to use the Ladies?

Nero, I don't think anyone is advocating that position i.e. that men be allowed to use the "Ladies" room.

The current consensus advocate position is that people should be allowed to use the restroom she, he or whatever is comfortable using and the trend is toward establishing gender-neutral bathrooms. The SF LGBT Center has recently established gender-neutral restrooms on the Second and Fourth Floors while providing "traditional" facilties on the first and third.

It is essential that LGBT people support progressive inclusive policies rather than policies that promote inclusion e.g. only diagnosed MtF Transsexuals be allowed in the women's restroom. These types of attitude encourage exclusion, intolerance and bigotry.

This is not a flame toward anyone but I am constantly shocked at the regressive mindsets of some of the members here. I am involved (not as much as I should or would like to be) in promoting trans-rights here in San Francisco. It is vital that we, as a community, foster forward and progressive views. Denying gender-queers access to "our safe-space" reflects the same cisgender-privileged attitude that most trans-activists decry.

This restroom debate reminds me of the "choice" issue that was so heated. Many who feel like transitioning was a choice could not understand why promoting that point of view is potentially harmful to the community and why those on the other side of the issue took the position that those who feel that way should just keep it to themselves.

Do gender queer really WANT access to our safe space?
Most CD I know don't think its appropriate for them
to go in women's restroom. They find unisex rooms and
go there.

Who actually wants to go there. Is this a straw argument.
Or just to score political points. There's such a thing
as choosing your battles and I don't think this one
is worth the effort to fight right now no matter its merits.

Don't unisex restroom fullfill most needs.
At least 50% of restaurants these days in
Montreal have those. Each time there is
a renovation to a restaurant, another is added.

Outside

inside

Wow, that's the craziest restroom ever.
Does it really exist?
I don't think I'd feel good peeing there no matter
if nobody can really see me.

Who is going to check?
Sheila

I'm not against people having segregated restrooms if they want them to exist.

What I am for is SAFE restrooms for anyone of ANY gender, or indeterminate gender. That doesn't exist in much of the public space.

y2g

Quote from: lisagurl on November 30, 2007, 02:11:58 PM


Outside

inside

That is wild! I love it! You can people watch instead of reading the newspaper! I want one!

I'm for segregated toilets.......men in one, women in the other.....

I am for maintaining segregated washrooms.  I can't understand why this is even an issue.  Why on earth would a man want to use a female washroom, and conversely, why would a woman want to use a mens washroom.

I don't see where this is an LGBT issue as transsexual men/women should be allowed to use the washroom they identify with, that's a given.

Steph.

Quote from: Steph on November 30, 2007, 06:45:26 PM
I am for maintaining segregated washrooms.  I can't understand why this is even an issue.  Why on earth would a man want to use a female washroom, and conversely, why would a woman want to use a mens washroom.

I don't see where this is an LGBT issue as transsexual men/women should be allowed to use the washroom they identify with, that's a given.

Steph.

I agree with this summation.

Women's restrooms present problems of their own, especially if they need to be cleaned and the supplies refilled.

I have been in some facilities in which I hovered above the seat while I watched my purse and carry-on luggage.  The last thing I want to see is some man in the washroom.  It's a safety and privacy concern with me.

Wing Walker

Quote from: Steph on November 30, 2007, 06:45:26 PM
I am for maintaining segregated washrooms.  I can't understand why this is even an issue.  Why on earth would a man want to use a female washroom, and conversely, why would a woman want to use a mens washroom.

I don't see where this is an LGBT issue as transsexual men/women should be allowed to use the washroom they identify with, that's a given.

Steph.

Ditto!

tink

I think there should be segregated washroom, restroom or bathroom. Maybe call it 'the loo' not sure on that name. If a person who is dressed in what society calls womens clothes and passes as a female and does not want to have surgery nor does she want hormones, but dresses fulltime, then they should use the womans washroom or in my part of the country restroom. Now if a lesbian dresses in 'mens clothes' and has what you would call a mans haircut and really looks like a man, then where does she go? I would think the womans restroom. Now, if a person who was born female but has this little problem of his brain not matching his body and wants to be a male and takes hormones but can't have bottom surgery cause it is too expensive and also not profected yet, where does he go. Genitals do not match the restroom policy.
Like I have said before in another post, I have searched around and can not find anywhere, where a transgendered person, whether they were CD, TS or drag queen/king, has molested or looked through any keyhole or did anything that would harm another person in the restroom, washroom or bathroom.
Now, what about a shower room, like in a gym or exercise house with showers?
Sheila

Just a point...

For those folks who support non-segregated washrooms would they extend this no-segregation to public schools, grade schools and high schools? Etc... Now I may be wrong but I would think that there would be few parents who would object to their children sharing washrooms with children or teachers of the opposite sex    I think that we need to get over this notion that men who dress as women, are women and visa versa.

The idea that folks can go around demanding rights of access just because they dress a certain way is nut's.  Lets take this to the extreme...  What about the "Furies", they often dress in the costume of the opposite gender, would they be granted access

Sigh...  What do I know, I'm just a woman who cherishes the privileges she has.

Steph

It seems to me that the original question was geared towards hearing from anyone who who doesn't believe that restrooms should be segregated. Nobody has really answered from that POV.

I have no strong opinion on whether segregated bathrooms should be completely abolished, but if they were, it should be possible for unisex facilities to exist that still had plenty of private areas for people to use. Personally I'd like to see more single restrooms available for anyone, regardless of gender.

y2g

Quote from: y2gender on December 01, 2007, 07:32:27 AM
It seems to me that the original question was geared towards hearing from anyone who who doesn't believe that restrooms should be segregated. Nobody has really answered from that POV.

I have no strong opinion on whether segregated bathrooms should be completely abolished, but if they were, it should be possible for unisex facilities to exist that still had plenty of private areas for people to use. Personally I'd like to see more single restrooms available for anyone, regardless of gender.

y2g

Where I live, unisex restrooms are usually single stalls called 'family restrooms' with mixed male and female icons on the door. Inside there's a changing table and handicapped handlebars. They're made for parents to go change diapers in and mothers accompaning sons and fathers accompaning daughters to the restrooms. But really they're for everyone who wants to use them. I wish they were everywhere.
I'm for segregated restrooms, but I think unisex should be available as well for anyone who needs them. When family restrooms are available, they're my first choice anyway.

Quote from: Nero on December 01, 2007, 10:41:02 AM

Quote from: y2gender on December 01, 2007, 07:32:27 AM
It seems to me that the original question was geared towards hearing from anyone who who doesn't believe that restrooms should be segregated. Nobody has really answered from that POV.

I have no strong opinion on whether segregated bathrooms should be completely abolished, but if they were, it should be possible for unisex facilities to exist that still had plenty of private areas for people to use. Personally I'd like to see more single restrooms available for anyone, regardless of gender.

y2g

Where I live, unisex restrooms are usually single stalls called 'family restrooms' with mixed male and female icons on the door. Inside there's a changing table and handicapped handlebars. They're made for parents to go change diapers in and mothers accompaning sons and fathers accompaning daughters to the restrooms. But really they're for everyone who wants to use them. I wish they were everywhere.
I'm for segregated restrooms, but I think unisex should be available as well for anyone who needs them. When family restrooms are available, they're my first choice anyway.

And I think that this is the best way to approach this issue.  Rather than invade privacy, gender neutral/unisex washrooms etc. should be available to those who are not male or female, but dress as those genders.

Heck in most places they are available now, so i really don't know what the problem is.

Steph

Many places, SF included, write the law so that you use the one that matches your presentation.  Unisex is another choice, and many of those are popping up.  I believe SF requires new buildings to have unisex.  Heck, even the Catholic Church near me has unisex bathrooms (one person per).

But I worked in a place for years that due to some odd quirk, only had one bathroom.  The boys and the girls (men and women in fact) all used it, and as far as I know no one had a problem with it.  Like anything else you can get used to it.  As long as everyone respects each other, there are no problems.

kat

well, I have three bathrooms at my house, and anyone who wants to use them can go in and lock the door and use them. 

I don't think of washroom facilities as being gendered, but it seems to me the question here is whether society wants more than one person in a bathroom at one time.  Clearly we have a long history of putting more than one woman or one man into a group bathroom, but we balk at group unisex bathrooms.