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Should We Forgive Jon Stewart?

Started by chloeD33, July 08, 2015, 11:17:41 AM

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chloeD33

I have came across a post regarding one of Jon Stewart's comments from 2004 in which he made some offensive comments about trans women after Dennis Kusinich said he wouldn't have an issue with appointmenting a trans person to the SCOTUS. I see some here are upset and understandly so. However, transgender rights, recognition and education and such in 2015 is so much more advanced than 2004. Back in 2004 whenever I heard of transgender people even my mind was poisoned by what grown ups said.... They are gay cross dressers. No one really knew anything about trans people... Even trans people in some cases. Education was minimal and even being gay could get you beaten on the street in day light. And Stewart iant the only one... South park made an episode in 2005 that was very offensive to trans people and another they made a little while ago would mock transphobia... Shrek even had a rude way of showing a trans charachter and given that Stewart at least in recent history has been a unwaivering supporter of Lgbt rights should we really bash him for a crappy remark made when no one knew us at all?
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chloeD33

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ChiGirl

Hard to know what to think when I don't know what the original joke was and I haven't really heard any of his thoughts on trans people lately.  He's generally steered clear of covering Caitlyn Jenner and although he does support the LGB community, that doesn't mean he supports the T.  A sad truth I'm only recently realizing.

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Jill F

Transgender people are probably the most misunderstood group of people in human history.  Unfortunately, what most people have to go by as far as knowledge of transgender issues go are decades of vilification, misinformation and ugly stereotyping.   It is up to us to educate people.  Until recently we have mostly failed to do this, and let's face it, nobody is going to do it for us. 

The fact remains that most people have still never (knowingly) met a transgender person and have never given our growing community a second thought.  We have come a very long way in the last ten years, and we still have a very long way to go before we are generally accepted in society.

Jon Stewart is no exception.  He is a bit more progressive than most, but like most Americans, he was apparently completely ignorant about trans issues.  In 2004, we were nothing more than joke fodder to him because it was still generally acceptable, even amongst liberals and LGBs to joke about transfolk.  Let's face it, we are still the low-hanging fruit, easy targets for a cheap laugh and we can only fix this by getting the word out that this attitude is unacceptable.

I have personally removed plenty of heads from asses in the last couple of years and even made allies out of former haters.  I think that if we all made an effort in this regard, we, as a community would see progress made even faster.  I forgive Jon Stewart because he likely didn't know any better at the time and that I am a firm believer in rectocranial extraction and redemption.  Perhaps one day we will all hear a resounding *POP* when this happens nationwide, but it will not happen unless we fight the pervasive ignorance that has plagued us from the beginning.

I believe that Jon Stewart's cheap shot at us was a symptom of the underlying problem- our systemic subjugation and subsequent silence. 

This cycle must be broken, and it is up to us. 
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Devlyn

Surely this is past the statute of limitations? 2004? My gosh, I've read transphobic comments here a lot more recently than this. I'm a woman with a penis, this is essentially the same statement as chick with a di**. I'm not that offended by the words.

Hugs, Devlyn
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Jill F

Quote from: Devlyn Marie on July 08, 2015, 02:11:34 PM
Surely this is past the statute of limitations? 2004? My gosh, I've read transphobic comments here a lot more recently than this. I'm a woman with a penis, this is essentially the same statement as chick with a di**. I'm not that offended by the words.

Hugs, Devlyn

It's not the words as much as the perceived intentions (or lack thereof) behind them. 

We need to forgive Jon Stewart and anyone else who pulls their head out of their ass, because our uphill battle will remain more or less vertical if we don't.
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amber roskamp

Quote from: ChiGirl on July 08, 2015, 12:52:22 PM
Hard to know what to think when I don't know what the original joke was and I haven't really heard any of his thoughts on trans people lately.  He's generally steered clear of covering Caitlyn Jenner and although he does support the LGB community, that doesn't mean he supports the T.  A sad truth I'm only recently realizing.

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He didn't avoid Caitlyn Jenner he actually did have a segment on Caitlyn and the news media's coverage of her. It was descent. He also pointed out a problem that the mainstream media does when ever the bring up trans people ( how they always focus on our appearance)

I have to watch the old one still, but I accept that people's views change over the years so since that was made in 2004 I will probably forgive him.
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ChiGirl

Quote from: amber roskamp on July 08, 2015, 03:19:48 PM
He didn't avoid Caitlyn Jenner he actually did have a segment on Caitlyn and the news media's coverage of her. It was descent. He also pointed out a problem that the mainstream media does when ever the bring up trans people ( how they always focus on our appearance)

I have to watch the past, but I accept that people's views change over the years so since that was made in 2004 I will probably forgive him.
Totally forgot that segment.  It was pretty good.

I say let's forgive him.  But I wouldn't mind him doing something that made me feel better about forgiving him.
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suzifrommd

Quote from: amber roskamp on July 08, 2015, 03:19:48 PM
He didn't avoid Caitlyn Jenner he actually did have a segment on Caitlyn and the news media's coverage of her. It was descent.

I did not like his segment on Jenner. He used her transition to make a point about how hard it was to be a woman.

Frankly it triggered me. I've been told too many times "if you're transitioning, you must not understand how hard it ist to be a woman", and her comments about Jenner brought that all back to me.

I actually though that segment came off as sort of lecturing Jenner, mansplaining the realities of womanhood.
Have you read my short story The Eve of Triumph?
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Sammy

Thanks to this post and I came to know about Jon Stewart's existence. Prior, I had no idea that Jon Stewart existed, nor that he had said something in 2004. Oh, well, not that I care much about either of these facts anyway.
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LesleyAnne

I don't remember seeing the '2004' offensive segment on Transgender, and I'm not interested in digging up skeletons from that long ago.
I think Jill said it best for me and I quote "We need to forgive Jon Stewart and anyone else who pulls their head out of their ass, because our uphill battle will remain more or less vertical if we don't."
In my humble opinion, I feel that if I don't forgive someone for their ignorance...then I won't ever get a chance to get them to come around to understanding me, so then I've done nothing to get them interested in playing it forward in educating others. They could become one of your best allies in the future, but you have to give them a chance. If you don't then you've stayed at square zero. There will be some failures to this philosophy of course, but I feel those failures were never going to come around to understanding you anyway.
I actually have gained a few allies, and lost a few as well, and those that I have lost I doubt seriously that they go out of their way to talk negatively about Trans people....they probably don't even bring it up. But the allies do go out of their way to actually try and educate, and defend us to others, so as fas as I'm concerned forgiveness is mostly a win, win.

On the lighter side......I tell people I go to Jon Stewart to get my news, and I go to Faux News to get my comedy!
Worrying doesn't take away tomorrow's troubles; it takes away today's
peace.
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Colleen M

I can't say I've ever found him funny, thought-provoking, or generally worthwhile.  I'm not carrying a grudge but neither he nor his sponsors would ever have noticed either way. 
When in doubt, ignore the moral judgments of anybody who engages in cannibalism.
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synesthetic

a few years ago, when i was uneducated i was actually kind of transphobic. i didn't understand why anyone was trans, i misgendered people, it just made no sense to me. but i'm now on a forum for trans people... as a trans person... i mean, people really do change.

it's impossible to know for sure that he has, but i think he has changed his viewpoint to be more accepting. a lot of people start from ignorance, then get educated.

i'd say, unless he gives me reason to be against him, comments from over ten years ago can be forgiven, especially since it seems like he's changed since then.
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sparrow

Yeah, people say ugly crap.  Especially comedians.  If they admit fault and put in the effort to repair the harm they've done, I think it's good to try to forgive, or at least forget.  An uncle of mine is a crossdresser.  That was rather titillating gossip to my family, including me... years before I discovered that I was trans.  I feel awful for that now... but should I lose my job over it?
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