You could try to nod first, but I truly recommend you let them go first until you have a better feel for it. Secondly, yes smiling would be weird. It's generally just not done. Hugs
mariah

Quote from: Clever on July 08, 2015, 02:51:45 PM
Okay, just so I understand: any time I catch the eye of another dude I can employ this nod?

Is just averting your eyes to avoid contact all together ever okay? Or is that rude?

Smiling is just seen as weird, right?

I know this is elementary to lots of you guys, but I've never had a lot of guy friends and I've never been tomboyish, so this is all brand new to me.

Yeah smiling can be a bad thing, a smirk is not too bad though. I've always used the head nod for other blokes. Ever since I was small, it's just easier and quicker xD

I also auto go for a proper handshake, or a warriors arm grab, which throws people, as I can't pass very well, and they never expect it from someone they perceive to be female.

'Sup!

(Sorry, couldn't resist...)

I smile at women I know, sometimes smile more guardedly at women I don't know (in situations requiring some kind of acknowledgment), and nod at guys. Sometimes I do the nod-and-not-quite-a-smile for guys. I just do it without thinking, so I can't describe it. JUST smiling at a guy strikes me as, well, weird, so I'd advise against it unless you know him pretty well.

In my neck of the woods, I don't tend to see the down-and-then-up nod nearly as much as the up-and-then-down nod (and I don't do it myself).

Quote from: Arch on July 08, 2015, 04:13:21 PM
I smile at women I know, sometimes smile more guardedly at women I don't know (in situations requiring some kind of acknowledgment), and nod at guys. Sometimes I do the nod-and-not-quite-a-smile for guys. I just do it without thinking, so I can't describe it. JUST smiling at a guy strikes me as, well, weird, so I'd advise against it unless you know him pretty well.

In my neck of the woods, I don't tend to see the down-and-then-up nod nearly as much as the up-and-then-down nod (and I don't do it myself).

That is my question.  Is it still ok to smile at women, or is that creepy now that I am 100% passing?  I'm thinking that if I smiled at women before and passed 85% of the time and they didn't seem to think I was creepy it isn't creepy?

I have always done the head nod with guys.  It is the "drop down" head nod where I am.

I sort of wonder about middle aged guys who still do this. 

*nod* 'Sup, brah!  *fistbump*  Dude, cruise by with some brewhas later and we'll totally rage! 

Seriously, my old bandmates had a housemate once who had a three word vocabulary: "Dude", "F***", and "Bro".  We wrote a punk song about him that had three whole lyrics.  Guess what they were... (OK, there was a bridge part where we yelled "Dude, WHO DRANK MY F****** JAGER?")

Is there an age limit for dudebrodom?  Anyway, I'm sure it's fine to a point, but I think that after a certain age it doesn't exactly pass the straight-face test.

'Sup. (LOL)

It would come off creepy, but if they smile at you then it's okay. I know if I guy smiled at me I probably would be creeped out by it, but it will depend on the guy who is doing it too. I would use the smile with caution if your going to use it. Hugs
Mariah

Quote from: Bimmer Guy on July 08, 2015, 04:55:29 PM
That is my question.  Is it still ok to smile at women, or is that creepy now that I am 100% passing?  I'm thinking that if I smiled at women before and passed 85% of the time and they didn't seem to think I was creepy it isn't creepy?

I have always done the head nod with guys.  It is the "drop down" head nod where I am.

Oh my - are you sure you aren't making all this up folks? Nobody ever told me the head nod was reserved for guys I really do break all the rules then... as do most folks I know in the UK!!!

Actually I don't believe it is a guy thing in the UK at all because here plenty of the type of powerful women that I mix with do it to each other... I do pretty much mix solely with Alpha career women, so maybe thats a difference, but I always just do whatever seems to be expected, and sometimes thats a nod, sometimes its a smile, and sometimes its a hello.

So yeah - the complexities of head nods that I never appreciated!

Quote from: Jill F on July 08, 2015, 04:57:05 PM
I sort of wonder about middle aged guys who still do this. 

*nod* 'Sup, brah!  *fistbump*  Dude, cruise by with some brewhas later and we'll totally rage! 

Seriously, my old bandmates had a housemate once who had a three word vocabulary: "Dude", "F***", and "Bro".  We wrote a punk song about him that had three whole lyrics.  Guess what they were... (OK, there was a bridge part where we yelled "Dude, WHO DRANK MY F****** JAGER?")

Is there an age limit for dudebrodom?  Anyway, I'm sure it's fine to a point, but I think that after a certain age it doesn't exactly pass the straight-face test.

'Sup. (LOL)

I don't think there's an age limit to be a dudebro, then again I'm mostly gymbro so I could be wrong...

And definitely middle aged.

Wow, never even thought about this headnod stuff until I'd transitioned...guys acknowledge each other as they walk by with it, but guys don't head nod (up, then down) to women, and women do NOT head nod to men.

When acknowledging a woman, men will tip their head (down, then up; simulates tipping a hat) and then a greeting appropriate to his intentions..."Good morning!" is just a greeting, "Hey." is making a quick yet subtle pass.

But I've found that a woman who nods to a man is doing the equivalent of saying "Hey GI, ten dolla'! Ten dolla'!!" Women are supposed to pretend they don't notice men.

I think, anyway. Humans in general are difficult to decipher.

Quote from: Call me Ray on July 08, 2015, 07:15:54 PM
I don't think there's an age limit to be a dudebro, then again I'm mostly gymbro so I could be wrong...

And definitely middle aged.

When I'm 100, I"m gonna be shuffling down the nursing home corridors, saying loudly, "DUDE!! 'SUP!! Got any brewskis?!"

Quote from: Beth Andrea on July 08, 2015, 07:54:19 PM
When I'm 100, I"m gonna be shuffling down the nursing home corridors, saying loudly, "DUDE!! 'SUP!! Got any brewskis?!"

And if I see you I'll nod and give you a fist bump and a beer

Thanks again to everyone for your help.

This has clued me into a behavior I'll need to kill. It's standard guy greeting in informal meeting. Passing on the sidewalk in an apartment complex. Quick nod and mumbled "sup". I have never done it to woman. Well maybe the downward, fake hat tip thing, but I digress. If you get it then you pass enough to at least be recognized as any other male.



Ella

I always saw the head nod as an occasional thing to be used when you find yourself in an uncomfortable proximity to another guy. It is simply a way to acknowledge the guy and to show you aren't a threat.

It's one of the guy behaviors i've had to unlearn.

Good advice here on guy bathroom etiquette too.

saying "hey" depends on the tone of voice. I use it quite a bit but its in a neutral monotone or down turn at the end. Its pretty much just hi only I cant say hi without at least a touch of enthusiasm showing in my voice so I usually dont say hi. (I'm still in "boy mode" except for my nail polish... and my pants... and my hair... and my mascara)

Failing to nod back isn't very rude, but it kinda depends on facial expression.  Scowling in response to a nod is either a warning sign, or a dismissal (you aren't cool enough to nod at me).  Failing to respond in the bathroom is always acceptable: guys don't make eye contact in the bathroom.  If a guy mistakenly believes that he's made eye contact with you in the bathroom and nods, you're free to ignore his tenuous grasp on reality... as long as you weren't looking around like a noob and can be perfectly nonchalant in your snub.

Also... please consider avoiding the douchebro culture.  You don't have to be that way to be a man.  They're overcompensating.

Smiling at girls: I always have.  Don't leer or grin, just give a small friendly smile.  At rest, my face is a scowl... so if I don't smile at people, they think I'm ready to kill them.  Continuing  to look and smile gets threatening very fast, though, unless she smiles back.

Quote from: sparrow on July 09, 2015, 10:32:08 AM

Also... please consider avoiding the douchebro culture.  You don't have to be that way to be a man.  They're overcompensating.

Can you explain what this culture is? Is greeting other guys a nod a part of it? I'm just trying to be polite and/or not beat up when I interact in public places. Thank you for your help.

I've only ever received head nods from friends and acquaintances, both male and female.  My ex, a fluent ASL signer, told me a few times that a head nod is a silent greeting between ASL signers, regardless of ability or disability.  She said bikers also do this.  This leads me to believe that the head nod is usually a silent greeting between people who either know each other already or it's obvious they share a common bond.

Still, the only time I've ever gotten the head nod is from my own mates.  Then it's *nod back*  "'Sup [insert name or a masculine term of endearment here]."  "'Sup [ditto]."  *conversation occurs*

As far as strange women...I think a smile accompanied by a slight nod is acceptable.  Whether she returns the gesture in any way or speaks to you is up to her.  If you're really brave you could throw in a friendly "Hello!" or "Hi!" and see what happens.

Wow, Thank you for your question. I've just realized I have been doing head nods for years without thinking about it! Oh no!

To help you, it's like what a lot of others have said, I do agree that a single (or maybe rarely double) up-to-down nod is one of agreement or acknowledgement of a proposed course of action (like in a meeting or something).

Starting from down, then up, once, is used in lieu of 'hello'. I've been thinking about this, and even if you don't verbalize " 'S up", the way it is annunciated seems to naturally bring your head up, from the formations of the 'S', and up a bit more when you say the 'up' part.

This head nod is best used in those situations with strangers or acquaintances when neither of you knows who should or will go first. Approaching from opposite directions in a hallway is a perfect example. You almost want to communicate that you are a guy going about your business, you are busy in your own thought process, but you are showing respect by breaking out of this momentarily to acknowledge the other guy, a sign of mutual respect.

Never smile at a guy, unless he is gay, and you use the smile to communicate friendship, and to show you to others that you are secure in your masculinity. This says, 'this guy is my friend, and I don't give a f$&;: what you think or infer from my smile'

Whether you are interested in them or not, always smile briefly at women, but not creepily.

I have spent enough time in the United Kingdom to know that the nod doesn't work at all in the same way it does in the States.

Gosh, I had no idea there was so much to this.....