I smell a really dumb Jill-ism here...

Trannimals

*ducks*

I was tempted as soon as I saw the thread, but refrained. Think of how terrible it would be if you were a transgender dog. You wouldn't be able to put on a dog tutu by yourself to let your owners know that you were a trannimal. The upside would be no electrolysis though.

The other upside would be a free orchi if you have a responsible owner 

Quote from: Jill F on July 11, 2015, 02:03:00 PM
I smell a really dumb Jill-ism here...

Trannimals

*ducks*

oh Jill, you're quite the character, i tell you that...

if i ever need a good show title for a premise, i'll contact you. 

I don't believe animals have a gender identity like humans do. Their psychological process is completely different from ours. Putting our traits into animal behavior makes us no better if not worse than those that force us to abide by what genitals we were born with

Quote from: BenKenobi on July 11, 2015, 03:15:35 PM
I don't believe animals have a gender identity like humans do. Their psychological process is completely different from ours. Putting our traits into animal behavior makes us no better if not worse than those that force us to abide by what genitals we were born with

Well.. they seem to have an identity concerning their gender.

And this:

Quote from: Contravene on July 11, 2015, 05:36:49 AM
Many species actually do have social gender roles. Take lion prides for example where the male is head of the pride and the females are the hunters or wolves where the alpha male and female have different roles. Animals do have gender roles, they just aren't used as a way of stereotyping and degrading a certain gender like how humans typically use gender roles.

I believe there are transgender animals too and the first thing I thought of when I saw the question was hyenas. I remember learning about a particular type, spotted hyenas I think, where the females have the dominant, more masculine gender roles (as compared to other types of hyenas) and they even have genitals that resemble the male's. I wonder if it's possible that type of hyena evolved that way because the transgender members of the species branched off and formed their own group.

I find that a lot of dysphoria involves what I see in the mirror: the more hormones feminized my face, the less dysphoric I felt looking at myself. So I think that self-assessment of gender plays a large role in gender dysphoria.

I bring this up because very, very few animal species can recognize their own faces in a mirror. It's not even a universal trait among great apes. This mirror test is a way of measuring self-awareness. It may be that for gender identity to develop, an animal needs a high degree of self-awareness, and very few species have brains that meet that minimum requirement.

If I were looking for gender dysphoria in another species, I would look chimpanzees and bonobos. They probably have the necessary level of self-awareness to generate a gender identity. How that gender identity would present itself in the wild, however, is not clear. That's a question for a primatologist.

I found this a little while ago



The whole thing is interesting, but starting at the 10 minute mark, they are talking about some female cows acting like bulls.

Quote from: Laura_7 on July 11, 2015, 04:05:13 PM
Well.. they seem to have an identity concerning their gender.

And this:

Gender roles and identity are two different things.

Quote from: BenKenobi on July 11, 2015, 06:25:10 PM
Gender roles and identity are two different things.

Yes.

But both seem to be present.

And I'd say that they have some kind of feeling for their gender identity.
In many races a clearly distinct behaviour can be observed, regardless of human interpretation.

hugs

Quote from: Laura_7 on July 11, 2015, 04:05:13 PM
Well.. they seem to have an identity concerning their gender.

And this:

Non-human animals have a sex that governs behaviour. There are only a few animals that have been shown to demonstrate self-awareness, as in a consciousness of self. So while non-human animals appear to adhere to gendered roles, I highly doubt that they have a concept of gender.

Trans-fish are common.

http://toxics.usgs.gov/highlights/fish_endocrine_disruption.html

Quote from: Stochastic on July 11, 2015, 09:14:37 PM
Trans-fish are common.

http://toxics.usgs.gov/highlights/fish_endocrine_disruption.html

This study is about cases of intersex within a species. There are also a number of species that change gender sex due to certain environmental pressures. However, the question this thread poses, I believe, is whether non-human animals have a conscious understanding of gender similar to that of humans.

Quote from: Echo Eve on July 11, 2015, 07:52:58 PM
Non-human animals have a sex that governs behaviour. There are only a few animals that have been shown to demonstrate self-awareness, as in a consciousness of self. So while non-human animals appear to adhere to gendered roles, I highly doubt that they have a concept of gender.

Well... there are dogs that look left and right before crossing a street.
I have observed the same with a cat.

If looking into the eyes of a cat there seems to be a lot of what is associated with male energy/agressiveness or female energy/softness there with some...

some people say many animals are like young children....I'm of the opinion they are very much aware and self aware...
maybe not all but many...


Well imo the OP did not mention consiousness... just transness...

hugs