Hi Blair
Take a look around for any and all possible different options that you have at your disposal. If you do go for the surgery, cheapest is not always the best way to go. Fixing the chin many times requires breaking the jaw bone in different places and resetting it. That could spell pain for several  moths and you may have to be sucking your nutrition's through a straw for a time.

I just accepted myself for who I was and I may not be no beauty queen, I am past that age but I do love being who I am and hey i I can still attract the attention of males I believe I am doing great for a 60 years old.

Cindy 

Quote from: Blair on December 02, 2007, 12:58:47 PM
Anyways, can anyone recommend a surgeon for that?  Preferably one they've been to?

I have no experience with them outside long-distance consultations, but Dr. Zukowski in Chicago and Dr. Spiegel in Boston are also reputable FFS surgeons.

~Kate~

Posted on: December 02, 2007, 04:15:08 PM

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Quote from: Berliegh on December 02, 2007, 05:37:25 AM
FFS surgery is not a fairy magic wand and like all surgery it has it's limitations. I have some lined up but I'm not expecting miracles...

I disagree. From what I've seen, FFS can produce absolute miracles. There aren't many limitations when you get to the point of removing and reshaping bone, adding implants, etc.

~Kate~

Quote from: melissa90299 on December 01, 2007, 10:10:40 AM

Quote from: Tink on November 30, 2007, 09:36:06 PM
  Blair, you have options.  I know that Dr. O is one of the best FFS surgeons but he is also one of the most expensive ones!  I would suggest that you join the yahoo groups on FFS.  There is also this link:

http://beginninglife.com/FFS.htm

tink

Ironic that the website links photos to dozens of successful FFS subjects, the vast majority of them Dr O graduates.

Posted on: December 01, 2007, 09:50:03 AM

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Quote from: Kristi on November 30, 2007, 09:27:26 PM
Blair, what is your goal?  Do you want to pass?  Or do you want to be a beauty queen?  You could have little things done one at a time till you are satisfied.  That way you could go ahead and start now.

Just an idea.

Kristi

Might not be a bad idea in Blair's case. Hate to be brutally honest but that jaw is a real problem. I don't believe in scrimping when it comes to my face but maybe there is someone who could do the jaw much cheaper than Dr O and I don't think a jaw requires the artistic eye that only Doug has. Just a thought.

Posted on: December 01, 2007, 09:58:14 AM

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Quote from: cindybc on November 30, 2007, 10:55:18 PM
Wow! just buy looking at the pictures and seeing the end product of some of the girls I would say that some of these Dr's know what their doing. I just want a couple little tuck at the jaws would make a lot of difference in appearance.

Cindy

Most of "those" doctors are Dr O.

Posted on: December 01, 2007, 10:01:45 AM

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Quote from: Nero on November 30, 2007, 07:49:19 PM
You are indeed a beautiful girl. Sometimes I think surgeons embellish and exaggerate what is actually needed like mechanics do.
I know Dr. Ousterhout is probably the best of his kind but all salesmen overstate the need for the product. You already look great.

Actually that is not the case with Dr O and I know this from my own experience and from the feedback of many of his patients. Dr O has more "business" than he can handle already. I was shocked when I got in on my second procedure with only a three month wait.

Now I am just holding my breath awaiting the discovery of this topic by the Dr O haters here. (Those  who can't afford him and have the emotional need to denigrate his work.)

Melissa once again, I completely disagree with everything you are saying here, and the truth is surgery would be much cheaper if she did not go to Dr. O, and I highy suggest she gets a consultation from another Doctor who is cheaper, and YOUNGER.  There are other Doctors out there and Dr. O you should have never gone in the first place, but I have to agree with Melissa, you DEFINATELY need FFS to just pass.  No getting around it.  But if you want to PM I can give you alternatives to Dr. Overpriced and Dr. OLD.  Sorry, Melissa, as big as a fan of him you are, there are alot more surgeons out there with a great eye and who do good work other than Dr. O. 

I am not going to dance around the subject.  If you want to go to Dr. O and pay more fine.  But the fact is you need FFS, and there are other Doctors who are good, including a couple in the bay area.

PS. Dr. Speigel so far the work I have seen from him is far superior to the work I have seen from O.  Less scaring, more natural appearance. Right now I would put him above O.   He is also significantly cheaper.  Just my opinion.  There is also Dr. Joel Beck in the bay area which I know some people went to and have had good results.  I could on, but the days of Dr. O being the best, or the only surgeon are over.   

Seriously do not get your heart set on O.  He is by far the most expensive.  Look around quite a bit more before you commit to anybody. 

Quote from: Kristi on December 02, 2007, 09:39:56 AM

Quote from: Berliegh on December 02, 2007, 05:37:25 AM
FFS surgery is not a fairy magic wand and like all surgery it has it's limitations. I have some lined up but I'm not expecting miracles...

Why in the world would you want to do surgery when you have a face like yours?  I think you underestimate yourself.

Kristi

Please, Kristi, don't get Berliegh started! underestimating is not even a word to her. lol. but you're right: what would she change?

Quote from: Amy T. on December 02, 2007, 06:13:29 PMyou DEFINATELY need FFS to just pass.

There's just no way to know that until at least a year of HRT, possibly two, and seeing what happens out there In Real Life. Soooo many people cry "I'll never pass without surgery!" and then a year later are posting, "I can't believe people just see a woman now!"

Still, I perfectly understand the desire to lose masculine features, even if we DO pass just fine.

~Kate~

Quote from: Amy T. on December 02, 2007, 06:13:29 PM

Quote from: melissa90299 on December 01, 2007, 10:10:40 AM

Quote from: Tink on November 30, 2007, 09:36:06 PM
  Blair, you have options.  I know that Dr. O is one of the best FFS surgeons but he is also one of the most expensive ones!  I would suggest that you join the yahoo groups on FFS.  There is also this link:

http://beginninglife.com/FFS.htm

tink

Ironic that the website links photos to dozens of successful FFS subjects, the vast majority of them Dr O graduates.

Posted on: December 01, 2007, 09:50:03 AM

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Quote from: Kristi on November 30, 2007, 09:27:26 PM
Blair, what is your goal?  Do you want to pass?  Or do you want to be a beauty queen?  You could have little things done one at a time till you are satisfied.  That way you could go ahead and start now.

Just an idea.

Kristi

Might not be a bad idea in Blair's case. Hate to be brutally honest but that jaw is a real problem. I don't believe in scrimping when it comes to my face but maybe there is someone who could do the jaw much cheaper than Dr O and I don't think a jaw requires the artistic eye that only Doug has. Just a thought.

Posted on: December 01, 2007, 09:58:14 AM

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Quote from: cindybc on November 30, 2007, 10:55:18 PM
Wow! just buy looking at the pictures and seeing the end product of some of the girls I would say that some of these Dr's know what their doing. I just want a couple little tuck at the jaws would make a lot of difference in appearance.

Cindy

Most of "those" doctors are Dr O.

Posted on: December 01, 2007, 10:01:45 AM

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Quote from: Nero on November 30, 2007, 07:49:19 PM
You are indeed a beautiful girl. Sometimes I think surgeons embellish and exaggerate what is actually needed like mechanics do.
I know Dr. Ousterhout is probably the best of his kind but all salesmen overstate the need for the product. You already look great.

Actually that is not the case with Dr O and I know this from my own experience and from the feedback of many of his patients. Dr O has more "business" than he can handle already. I was shocked when I got in on my second procedure with only a three month wait.

Now I am just holding my breath awaiting the discovery of this topic by the Dr O haters here. (Those  who can't afford him and have the emotional need to denigrate his work.)

Melissa once again, I completely disagree with everything you are saying here, and the truth is surgery would be much cheaper if she did not go to Dr. O, and I highy suggest she gets a consultation from another Doctor who is cheaper, and YOUNGER.  There are other Doctors out there and Dr. O you should have never gone in the first place, but I have to agree with Melissa, you DEFINATELY need FFS to just pass.  No getting around it.  But if you want to PM I can give you alternatives to Dr. Overpriced and Dr. OLD.  Sorry, Melissa, as big as a fan of him you are, there are alot more surgeons out there with a great eye and who do good work other than Dr. O. 

I am not going to dance around the subject.  If you want to go to Dr. O and pay more fine.  But the fact is you need FFS, and there are other Doctors who are good, including a couple in the bay area.

PS. Dr. Speigel so far the work I have seen from him is far superior to the work I have seen from O.  Less scaring, more natural appearance. Right now I would put him above O.   He is also significantly cheaper.  Just my opinion.  There is also Dr. Joel Beck in the bay area which I know some people went to and have had good results.  I could on, but the days of Dr. O being the best, or the only surgeon are over.   

Seriously do not get your heart set on O.  He is by far the most expensive.  Look around quite a bit more before you commit to anybody. 

It was only a matter of time.

Posted on: December 03, 2007, 07:49:01 AM

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Quote from: Kate on December 02, 2007, 06:35:47 PM

Quote from: Amy T. on December 02, 2007, 06:13:29 PMyou DEFINATELY need FFS to just pass.

There's just no way to know that until at least a year of HRT, possibly two, and seeing what happens out there In Real Life. Soooo many people cry "I'll never pass without surgery!" and then a year later are posting, "I can't believe people just see a woman now!"

Still, I perfectly understand the desire to lose masculine features, even if we DO pass just fine.

~Kate~

I still don't get it when people with obviously male features claim they "pass" so well. Perhaps, in whatever locale they live in, people haven't learned how to play "Spot the ->-bleeped-<-."

Then again, most people walk around in such a state of unawareness, self and otherwise, that any delusion or denial is easy to maintain.

Posted on: December 03, 2007, 07:57:55 AM

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Quote from: Blair on December 02, 2007, 12:58:47 PM

Hey, all I really want is my man jaw and man brow to be fixed.  I'm honestly really skittish about rhinoplasty because I do NOT want a non-ethnic looking nose.  I would just want the nose I have now, only a little smaller because the brow work will make it look bigger than it is now.

All in all the work I need done isn't really complicated.  I would even be happy with just the jaw being done.

Also, I appreciate the compliments Nero, but the picture I have up right now is at a ridiculously flattering angle.  I am NOT beautiful unless I can figure out a way to use lighting and angling to pull the attention away from the glaring masculine errors and onto my lips and eyes.

Anyways, can anyone recommend a surgeon for that?  Preferably one they've been to?

~ BB

I think the jaw work would help a lot in your case. I was wondering what Dr O said about you wanting to keep your nose. I was one of only three patients for whom he did not recommend and perform a rhino. You can PM me if you feel more comfortable.

If you want something bad enough, and make it your top priority, you will get it. Buying a nice vehicle is more expensive than FFS even the works. I managed to build my credit to the point that I financed all my procedures on 0% credit cards. (then later 4.99% rollovers) I even (so far) have managed to pay them. My worst case scenario was I would default and lose my credit standing, they can't repossess one's face, breasts or vagina

Ha ha, Melissa, you're alright!  I like it.

Well I just checked in with Spiegel over email about prices and guess what?

They are THE SAME PRICE.  Cheaper my FACE.  I'm just going with Dr. O, and I'm going to figure something out for payment.  I have some assets my father left me that I'm not entitled to until I'm 35.  Maybe I can sign them over to a relative or something for cash now.

I have options.  I'm just depressed and lazy right now.  -_-

~ BB

Quote from: melissa90299 on December 03, 2007, 08:08:18 AM
I still don't get it when people with obviously male features claim they "pass" so well. Perhaps, in whatever locale they live in, people haven't learned how to play "Spot the ->-bleeped-<-."

Wow, we live in very, very different worlds Melissa. I'm beginning to see why we disagree so much on certain things. I don't think I'd be able to survive out there. I know you think I'm delusional, and maybe out there I WOULD be, but here... how I am, and how I approach all this makes sense and fits me into my world around me here. But I guess it might not work at all in your context.

I can't imagine living in a world where TSism, trans-rights, progressive-issues, gender-bending.... all that stuff is on the forefront of everyone's minds. It's just not like that where I live. No one even THINKS about it. No one is looking for transsexuals. The category doesn't even exist. There's no contest or focus on passing other than being congruent enough to not raise a fuss and get on with life.

The irony (and I DO so love ironies!) is that you're showing me that it's actually BETTER to live in a restrictive, regressive, binary, male-or-female environment. People here don't WANT me to be "transsexual" - they need me to be either male of female to fit into their tidy little binary world, and once you cross a certain threshold, they seem to be willing to ignore your biological history and slot you into your target sex.

Funny how curses keep turning into blessings...

~Kate~

Quote from: Kate on December 03, 2007, 02:55:44 PM

Quote from: melissa90299 on December 03, 2007, 08:08:18 AM
I still don't get it when people with obviously male features claim they "pass" so well. Perhaps, in whatever locale they live in, people haven't learned how to play "Spot the ->-bleeped-<-."

Wow, we live in very, very different worlds Melissa. I'm beginning to see why we disagree so much on certain things. I don't think I'd be able to survive out there. I know you think I'm delusional, and maybe out there I WOULD be, but here... how I am, and how I approach all this makes sense and fits me into my world around me here. But I guess it might not work at all in your context.

I can't imagine living in a world where TSism, trans-rights, progressive-issues, gender-bending.... all that stuff is on the forefront of everyone's minds. It's just not like that where I live. No one even THINKS about it. No one is looking for transsexuals. The category doesn't even exist. There's no contest or focus on passing other than being congruent enough to not raise a fuss and get on with life.

The irony (and I DO so love ironies!) is that you're showing me that it's actually BETTER to live in a restrictive, regressive, binary, male-or-female environment. People here don't WANT me to be "transsexual" - they need me to be either male of female to fit into their tidy little binary world, and once you cross a certain threshold, they seem to be willing to ignore your biological history and slot you into your target sex.

Funny how curses keep turning into blessings...

~Kate~

I agree. In Mississippi most folks would not believe you if it was staring them in the face. It just does not happen here.

There's not a lot of trans awareness where I live, but a large LGBT community. Drag queens are rampant, making it harder for not-so-passable women and not-so-passable transmen are just mistaken for butches. This may be one reason why so many pre-T transguys seemingly pass elsewhere, but not here. People are too accostumed to masculine looking women.

Kate, I didn't mean to imply that you or anyone in particular is delusional except to the extent that all of us are delusional and in denial to some extent.(at least about something  It is just human nature. It allows us to cope.

They may play spot the ->-bleeped-<- in San Fran, but San Fran is an island onto itself.  Significantly more trans aware.  Then again I passed with residents of San Fran before (you know you pass when they talk about you having children).  In DC, and heck even in Chicago and NYC most people do not do that or even aware of a TS unless they REALLY stick out.  I have seen a few who do, but the truth is...I don't here in DC, the city is probably the least trans-aware in the US.  FFS is more for myself to tell you the truth then passing, and what I will be getting will be limited to a rhinoplasty, forehead contour and scalp advance.

The rest of the world is not that trans aware as San Fran.  The city is like a trans ghetto for people who do not pass.  Most of us do just fine in the real world.

The thing that people fail to realize is that as time goes by, everywhere will be like the city by the bay , people will become more and more trans aware and all those who disdained FFS and bragged about how great they THINK they "passed" will be wishing they had gone to DR O before he retired. 

Quote from: melissa90299 on December 04, 2007, 11:43:18 PM
The thing that people fail to realize is that as time goes by, everywhere will be like the city by the bay , people will become more and more trans aware and all those who disdained FFS and bragged about how great they THINK they "passed" will be wishing they had gone to DR O before he retired. 

Again, there will probably be about a dozen or surgeons around he has already trained. 

If you are really foolish to think every city will be as trans aware as San Fran, you really are living in your own little world. 
It will never happen.  You also forget quite a bit of trans-awareness comes from being trans. 

I live in the city by the bay and have lived in Cali for a long time, all the trends start here. The rest of the countrty is 2o years behind.

I traveled all of eastern US and Canada and just recently moved to BC, one and a half countries and never had problems with anyone. I am quite aware that I don't fit in 100% I will not elude myself. I believe myself that personality had a lot to do with my getting along with folks. Still do. A good sense of humor doesn't hurt either. Well anyway that was the way I did it. When I left a particular place I even had people tell me they would miss me.

Cindy

To call SF a 'ghetto' is to ignore the (sur)real estate prices here. 

And, as only the people who live here know, its not what others think it is.  We have a great deal of freedom and liberty, not out of some liberal mentality, but really for the most conservative reason of all - its the most lucrative way to go.  If you let people be free, one of the things they are free to do is to make money.

And we are also aware that things are not always as they seem, or at least not 100%.  The girl in the leather cat suit with the whip and handcuffs is a corporate lawyer the next morning.  The punk guy wearing a leather coat that looks like it was dragged behind a car all the way from LA made more money last year as a senior (though he is only 25) game developer than I will in a lifetime - holes in his jeans, an "E" class MB in the driveway. 

And though we are, as we like to say "49 square miles surrounded by reality" we are pretty real.  We treat each other (for the most part) like decent people because we assume (rightly or wrongly) that you are doing what you feel compelled to do.  You are being who you are.  ->-bleeped-<-s are not the only people here with casual day to day acceptance, plenty of other 'different' people find the same deal. 

And Veronica is right.  If you want to know what is going to be happening in your town ten years from now, watch what we are doing now.

Quote from: Veronica Secret on December 09, 2007, 10:54:23 AM
I live in the city by the bay and have lived in Cali for a long time, all the trends start here. The rest of the countrty is 2o years behind.

Seriously keep thinking that.  Generally speaking coming from the east coast, I have noticed how Cali always tends to lag in everything from Fashion to Music.

Generally speaking things move this way : NYC-->Chicago---->California

You people live in a bubble sometimes, and its not going to happen. 

There are people from California, especially San Fran who think 10 to 20 years it will be like that, but people in Chicago and NYC always respectfully disagree.  NYC is generally the one who sets the trend for the rest of the country, NOT CALIFORNIA.  California has been its own little world for awhile.  Where people think they set the trends, but it generally is not the case.   Things generally filter east to west, not vice versa.

Sorry, I have seen trends for dozens of years.  I have not seen one that started in California.  Musically they always start out east or in the midwest.  Fashion that ALWAYS starts out east, except for some subculture fashions (emo, indie) start in the midwest or again, NYC.

I don't know where you are thinking the country follows California as a trend, but that has never been the case.  Cali has ALWAYS been its own little island.  Closer to walking its own path then a trend setter.

To say that all trends start in Cali is not just off base, it completely ignores the pull that NYC has out east or that Chicago has in middle America.  Suggest that all trends start in Cali to ANYBODY from NYC, and watch them laugh in your face.  If you would have said the same thing to somebody from Chicago they would do the same thing, they would say "I could have believed you if you said NYC, because there is some truth to that".

California has always overrated itself, be it the BAY or LA.  Its not a trend setter nationally, and never was.   NYC is the ONLY place in the US who can make that claim.   

Cali is also where everyone follows the Jones. Fad after fad start and end as they usually are pretty ridiculous. It is where no one has an understanding of where the extreme starts.

Or where it end. 

But to answer the original question, no one ever regrets buying the best.